People who spend huge amounts of $ on private college consultants are wasting their money

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ones people pay big bucks for are often former college counselors at top schools or former admissions officers. They have a huge network of contacts and are well known. They are not new to the system. They take on a limited number of kids from each school and each cycle. There are article and blogs describing what they do that have popped up online since the scandal. The post had two articles within the last few days. If you have the money I can think of no reason not to do this for a top student. People talking about doing it the old fashion way or whatever they did in the 70s-90s should prepare for rejection and not be mad. The system of applying to a bunch of top colleges is arduous and the kids have a ton of other activities at the same time. They are seniors so team captains, newspaper editors, lead actors, debate... all the extra curriculars and possibly testing along with all AP classes and finals happen at the same time. If the kid does not get in early the entire Xmas break is spent on application. No top colleges have rolling acceptance. Kids start dropping schools left and right because there is just not enough time to do the massive essays. It is a process that needs to be paved or managed. The questions are not released until after school starts for most kids so you can’t front load over the summer either. In the 4 years I watched this unfold with my kids those who rushed through did not get in... sometimes anywhere. Each app must be completed like its your number one school. If you are from a disadvantaged background you get cut a break but for middle class kids coming from a top public or private school regardless of race sloppy or error ridden essays meant a rejection. There is so much paper it takes over at least one room of the house.

Do you think a private college counselor can get a kid into a school that they would otherwise not get into on their own? I have heard parents sing the praises of their private counselors, but I have never heard of a case where a kid got into a reach school by using a private counselor. So basically, they are helping them be stronger candidates for schools that they very possibly could have gotten into anyways? And the parents using these counselors are full pay anyways, so if their kid applies to enough schools where they are in the mid-range of the application profile for, they would be getting some acceptances anyways. And can't most kids, figure out what schools out of those whose stats they are a match for they would like to attend anyways?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are consultants like private high school counselors in that they make contact with schools, tip them on off what the student's top choice is, and otherwise potentially influence admissions decisions--a little like deal-making? (<--is this even correct? I somehow surmised this from various conversations and info sessions.)

No, because parents don't want the colleges to know they are using private college counselors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ones people pay big bucks for are often former college counselors at top schools or former admissions officers. They have a huge network of contacts and are well known. They are not new to the system. They take on a limited number of kids from each school and each cycle. There are article and blogs describing what they do that have popped up online since the scandal. The post had two articles within the last few days. If you have the money I can think of no reason not to do this for a top student. People talking about doing it the old fashion way or whatever they did in the 70s-90s should prepare for rejection and not be mad. The system of applying to a bunch of top colleges is arduous and the kids have a ton of other activities at the same time. They are seniors so team captains, newspaper editors, lead actors, debate... all the extra curriculars and possibly testing along with all AP classes and finals happen at the same time. If the kid does not get in early the entire Xmas break is spent on application. No top colleges have rolling acceptance. Kids start dropping schools left and right because there is just not enough time to do the massive essays. It is a process that needs to be paved or managed. The questions are not released until after school starts for most kids so you can’t front load over the summer either. In the 4 years I watched this unfold with my kids those who rushed through did not get in... sometimes anywhere. Each app must be completed like its your number one school. If you are from a disadvantaged background you get cut a break but for middle class kids coming from a top public or private school regardless of race sloppy or error ridden essays meant a rejection. There is so much paper it takes over at least one room of the house.

Do you think a private college counselor can get a kid into a school that they would otherwise not get into on their own? I have heard parents sing the praises of their private counselors, but I have never heard of a case where a kid got into a reach school by using a private counselor. So basically, they are helping them be stronger candidates for schools that they very possibly could have gotten into anyways? And the parents using these counselors are full pay anyways, so if their kid applies to enough schools where they are in the mid-range of the application profile for, they would be getting some acceptances anyways. And can't most kids, figure out what schools out of those whose stats they are a match for they would like to attend anyways?

Yes I do. I deeply regretted not getting one for my oldest. But for maximum effect you need to start in 9th grade so the package is perfect and supported by application time.

[Anonymous]

For top 10 schools almost everyone is in the range but few get in. That’s why we have so many angry posters on this forum. Being in the range is not enough for most kids at a top 10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ones people pay big bucks for are often former college counselors at top schools or former admissions officers. They have a huge network of contacts and are well known. They are not new to the system. They take on a limited number of kids from each school and each cycle. There are article and blogs describing what they do that have popped up online since the scandal. The post had two articles within the last few days. If you have the money I can think of no reason not to do this for a top student. People talking about doing it the old fashion way or whatever they did in the 70s-90s should prepare for rejection and not be mad. The system of applying to a bunch of top colleges is arduous and the kids have a ton of other activities at the same time. They are seniors so team captains, newspaper editors, lead actors, debate... all the extra curriculars and possibly testing along with all AP classes and finals happen at the same time. If the kid does not get in early the entire Xmas break is spent on application. No top colleges have rolling acceptance. Kids start dropping schools left and right because there is just not enough time to do the massive essays. It is a process that needs to be paved or managed. The questions are not released until after school starts for most kids so you can’t front load over the summer either. In the 4 years I watched this unfold with my kids those who rushed through did not get in... sometimes anywhere. Each app must be completed like its your number one school. If you are from a disadvantaged background you get cut a break but for middle class kids coming from a top public or private school regardless of race sloppy or error ridden essays meant a rejection. There is so much paper it takes over at least one room of the house.

Do you think a private college counselor can get a kid into a school that they would otherwise not get into on their own? I have heard parents sing the praises of their private counselors, but I have never heard of a case where a kid got into a reach school by using a private counselor. So basically, they are helping them be stronger candidates for schools that they very possibly could have gotten into anyways? And the parents using these counselors are full pay anyways, so if their kid applies to enough schools where they are in the mid-range of the application profile for, they would be getting some acceptances anyways. And can't most kids, figure out what schools out of those whose stats they are a match for they would like to attend anyways?

Yes I do. I deeply regretted not getting one for my oldest. But for maximum effect you need to start in 9th grade so the package is perfect and supported by application time.

For this type of service, you have counselors telling students what activities they should do throughout HS to most impress colleges. This would be quite valuable if you have the type of kid who is going to go willingly along with such advise, but in my experience most kids aren't like this. Outside of extreme help throughout HS with a willing kid, I don't see how hiring a private counselor junior year to simply help package what they kid has already achieved is really going to make a difference.

[Anonymous]

Families using private consultants are not always full-pay families, as some are just trying for admission to top schools with excellent financial aid.

Consulting services can also be purchased a la carte or full-package. Prices vary widely, from 150/hr or 4k full, 4-year unlimited services out in the hinterlands to 25-50k for full services in big markets like NYC.

Most consultants prefer to under-promise and over-deliver, downplaying chances at reaches.

Whether the full, 4-year consulting deal would be helpufl is a bit of an individual opinion and depends a lot on the kid. Some kids make choices throughout high school that, rightly, reflect who they are, and how to write that up in the app is all that's left - these are often kids that will have the best shots at elites regardless. Other kids might simply float through the early years of high school and may come into their own, in terms of making the choices that elite schools happen to like to see, much later in high school. (Frankly, I prefer to let them be, as long as they put effort into their classes and choose at least one EC that they are interested in, then let the chips fall, even though the slower-to-come-around kid may not end up at an elite school. That's what grad school is for...) While it happens, I think it's unrealistic to force an otherwise floating high schooler to "be" an elite college applicant throughout high school, at least where the top-10 are concerned, though top-30 is another matter entirely, as the recent scandal demonstrates.

About the essays, a good candidate for a top school may find guidance useful as to what a good admission essay looks like, as most kids are utterly unfamiliar with the genre. Editing may be nothing more - and often substantially less - than a high school English teacher might suggest. Rather than use a consultant, there's a PDF out there that does a nice job of talking through essay topic considerations, here: https://www.hackthecollegeessay.com/uploads/1/0/9/5/109505679/hack_the_college_essay_2017.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For top 10 schools almost everyone is in the range but few get in. That’s why we have so many angry posters on this forum. Being in the range is not enough for most kids at a top 10.

But what does a private college counselor do to get a kid who is within range for a top 10 in? Especially if the counselor is ethical and isn't going to essentially write the essay for the kid. Ok, might provide some useful advise over what school to apply to ED, but other than that what else can they really do of value?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For top 10 schools almost everyone is in the range but few get in. That’s why we have so many angry posters on this forum. Being in the range is not enough for most kids at a top 10.

But what does a private college counselor do to get a kid who is within range for a top 10 in? Especially if the counselor is ethical and isn't going to essentially write the essay for the kid. Ok, might provide some useful advise over what school to apply to ED, but other than that what else can they really do of value?

I know a couple of consultants. What they would do with a senior would involve talking through the kid's activities to help pull out what the kid really did, beyond "club vice president" or whatever, what actions did the kid take that showed initiative. Suggested language for the activity section, much like a resume, might not be things the kid would think to say.

It seems to me that a savvy parent could help just as much, if the kid let them. Sometimes the parent/kid relationship makes that difficult, however (kid not wanting to take parent's suggestions, even though a consultant could make the same suggestions and the kid would at least consider them.)

Whether any of this is worth the price is another question - depends on individual factors. The one kid I happen to know (one of my kid's friends) who was admitted early to a HYPS in December did everything, all the research, the app, and everything underlying the app (class choices, test prep, great ECs), all herself. She was a great candidate from the start.

[Anonymous]

The column in today’s Post by an essay coach says she meets with the student to get them to talk about themselves, dig out a good topic, get them to be talk about it in depth and detail, then she writes the outline, the student writes a draft, she edits it, then revision, edit, revision, edit, until it is satisfactory. She usually has a student working on multiple essays and the use the best one or use different ones for different colleges.

That sounds like a huge help for the student compared to those who write it themselves, and it looks like it would be easy to cross the line in the topic selection, outline, and edits to practically ghost write it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The column in today’s Post by an essay coach says she meets with the student to get them to talk about themselves, dig out a good topic, get them to be talk about it in depth and detail, then she writes the outline, the student writes a draft, she edits it, then revision, edit, revision, edit, until it is satisfactory. She usually has a student working on multiple essays and the use the best one or use different ones for different colleges.

That sounds like a huge help for the student compared to those who write it themselves, and it looks like it would be easy to cross the line in the topic selection, outline, and edits to practically ghost write it.

So she writes it. How is that different

[Anonymous]

It sounds like there is wide variation in how much consultants help with the essay. Getting the students to talk seems fine.
Writing the outline seems a bit over the top. More than a couple rounds of revision also sounds like a bit much.

[Anonymous]

My DC on their own initiative got a consultant for med school applications using their own money from a part-time job. I had nothing to do with this and did nothing like this for college; I left DC totally on their own for that. I am pretty sure DC would have balked if I had attempted to help at all and would have scorned the suggestion of a consultant.

DC definitely thought the med school consultant was worth it as their college's pre-med advising was very lightly resourced.

From conversations with DC, it seems beyond putting together the list of schools to apply to, the consultant gave a lot of advice on what to avoid writing about in essays or saying in interviews, and how to present volunteer work child was already very actively engaged in. He also proofread all the essays.

The best consultants are marketers with expert knowledge of the desires, likes and dislikes of the target consumer, the admissions committees. Their job is to coach the candidate on how to put their strengths in the best possible light.

As someone mentioned earlier, it can be very much like having someone help you put together a resume. I help people at work do this; it can be totally amazing how gainfully employed, smart people can be really bad at doing their own resumes. By the time we are done, the accomplishments remain theirs, but the presentation is largely mine. I never thought of this particularly as cheating.

[Anonymous]

If your child is in any decent private school you should not need a private counselor: the school college counselors should be good, and should be able to help them identify colleges that are good fits, help them strategize about how to put their best foot forward on the apps, etc. If your child is a top-performing kid at a top public school, same.

The ONLY situation in which a private counselor might make sense, if affordable, is if your child is at a huge public school and is middle of the pack (meaning counselors, though likely excellent, may not have as much interest/time for your kid), or if your child is at a not-so-great public school AND you yourself do not have the time or cultural knowledge to be helpful (you're an immigrant and unfamiliar with the system in the US, whatever).

[Anonymous]

My DC may have gotten into his dream school without the consultant, but I do believe some of the advice we got from her was valuable and helped us tip the scale in his favor.

Some of the advice she gave us:

Each year we looked at course selections and advised on best course load to demonstrate rigor. Coming from her vs. us (his parents) made an impact and he was much more open to listening to her advice vs. having us try to guide him.

She helped us navigate getting accommodations for the ACT (we already had them for college board). With ACT, you have to actually register for the test before you request accommodations. We registered even though we knew he wouldn't take the test on that day (he wouldn't be ready) and requested accommodations. Then we rescheduled the date once we got the accommodations. This way, he knew how he should prep for the test based on the accommodations he was given. It was a one and done and he scored quite high.

She got us hooked up with an excellent tutor for test prep that was in our price range (only $150 per hour) and came to the house.

She provided him with checklists and deadlines of things to complete, i.e. send ACT scores to schools, have draft of supplemental essay done by this date, complete this section of common app by this date, etc. It provided structure to the process and we were able to be more hands off.

She helped him brainstorm ideas for essays and guided him toward the best approach, subjects to pursue. She proofread essays for punctuation/typos. She did not adjust content, other than to suggest taking out or adding concepts...but no actually editing.

She helped narrow down a list of colleges.

He made out quite well...got into a top 20 which was his first choice. He didn't want any ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC may have gotten into his dream school without the consultant, but I do believe some of the advice we got from her was valuable and helped us tip the scale in his favor.

Some of the advice she gave us:

Each year we looked at course selections and advised on best course load to demonstrate rigor. Coming from her vs. us (his parents) made an impact and he was much more open to listening to her advice vs. having us try to guide him.

She helped us navigate getting accommodations for the ACT (we already had them for college board). With ACT, you have to actually register for the test before you request accommodations. We registered even though we knew he wouldn't take the test on that day (he wouldn't be ready) and requested accommodations. Then we rescheduled the date once we got the accommodations. This way, he knew how he should prep for the test based on the accommodations he was given. It was a one and done and he scored quite high.

She got us hooked up with an excellent tutor for test prep that was in our price range (only $150 per hour) and came to the house.

She provided him with checklists and deadlines of things to complete, i.e. send ACT scores to schools, have draft of supplemental essay done by this date, complete this section of common app by this date, etc. It provided structure to the process and we were able to be more hands off.

She helped him brainstorm ideas for essays and guided him toward the best approach, subjects to pursue. She proofread essays for punctuation/typos. She did not adjust content, other than to suggest taking out or adding concepts...but no actually editing.

She helped narrow down a list of colleges.

He made out quite well...got into a top 20 which was his first choice. He didn't want any ivies.

Except for the last two items (narrowing down essay topics and selecting a list of colleges), everything else you describe sounds like a disservice to your kid's development in the long run. Applying to colleges is one of the more complicated things a 17 year old does in their life, but tracking deadlines etc is a healthy way to build responsibility and an important part of preparing for the degree of independence one needs to be a college student. Same with choosing courses and studying for tests (though test prep has been around forever, so I guess that's just the way things are these days).