What’s with all of the honors and AP courses? Why don’t they make regular courses more challenging?

[Anonymous]

DS public HS allows kids with 85 GPA in a course (regular or honors) to take AP offered for subject. If teacher does not recommend, students can appeal and try the course for 5 weeks, maintain an 85 or drop without a withdrawal on transcript. Approx 35% are in AP. Most are definitely qualified. Some are not initially, but step up when they adjust to the pace and rigor (DS).

This particular principal is extremely fair to students who advocate for themselves (also DS). He sees it as one of the most important skills a kid needs for college and life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You may not be aware of this but today AP & honors classes are the regular classes. Over the years these have been watered down so that more people are able to participate. This has affected the rigor of these classes.

Do you have any evidence that the content of the AP US History class (for example) is less rigorous than it used to be at some point in the past (when?)?

NP who teaches APUSH. The course outline has not been watered down. I do feel that the new multiple choice questions based on documents require less historical knowledge. On the other hand, they may not be easier because sometimes they are subjective. Still many of the adults on DCUM who mock APs probably wouldn't pass.

Back when I was in public HS @FCPS, there was roughly a half-dozen AP classes offered and we didn't get extra grade points for taking them. From a class of 600, there was typically 30 kids enrolled in any one of these classes, but this was just the kids in the top 5% in terms of GPA.

That doesn't mean that the content has been watered down. It just means that more people take AP classes than used to. I think that's a good thing.

The problem is people aren't smarter than they were a few decades ago. When 30% of a class takes AP vs 3% there is a difference in the content.

No. The AP course is the AP course, whether it's taught at high schools that allow everybody to take the class who wants to or at high schools that only allow certain people to take the class.

lol you can't be serious. There are schools where you have people taking AP that are several grade levels behind. There is no way that course is the same level of rigor as a course with students who are actually ready for college level material

NP
You’re confused.
The AP courses is the AP course. If you weren't ready for the course, it will show on the test. Those who are ready will score high and those who are not, will flunk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You may not be aware of this but today AP & honors classes are the regular classes. Over the years these have been watered down so that more people are able to participate. This has affected the rigor of these classes.

Do you have any evidence that the content of the AP US History class (for example) is less rigorous than it used to be at some point in the past (when?)?

NP who teaches APUSH. The course outline has not been watered down. I do feel that the new multiple choice questions based on documents require less historical knowledge. On the other hand, they may not be easier because sometimes they are subjective. Still many of the adults on DCUM who mock APs probably wouldn't pass.

Back when I was in public HS @FCPS, there was roughly a half-dozen AP classes offered and we didn't get extra grade points for taking them. From a class of 600, there was typically 30 kids enrolled in any one of these classes, but this was just the kids in the top 5% in terms of GPA.

That doesn't mean that the content has been watered down. It just means that more people take AP classes than used to. I think that's a good thing.

The problem is people aren't smarter than they were a few decades ago. When 30% of a class takes AP vs 3% there is a difference in the content.

No. The AP course is the AP course, whether it's taught at high schools that allow everybody to take the class who wants to or at high schools that only allow certain people to take the class.

lol you can't be serious. There are schools where you have people taking AP that are several grade levels behind. There is no way that course is the same level of rigor as a course with students who are actually ready for college level material

NP
You’re confused.
The AP courses is the AP course. If you weren't ready for the course, it will show on the test. Those who are ready will score high and those who are not, will flunk.

You must be confused. AP today means regular class. Regular class means remedial. This is all part of the grade inflation trend where every child is a genius and gets a trophy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You must be confused. AP today means regular class. Regular class means remedial. This is all part of the grade inflation trend where every child is a genius and gets a trophy.

No, AP means AP. A course created by the College Board, with an associated test, also created by the College Board. See here: https://apstudent.collegeboard.org/home

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You must be confused. AP today means regular class. Regular class means remedial. This is all part of the grade inflation trend where every child is a genius and gets a trophy.

No, AP means AP. A course created by the College Board, with an associated test, also created by the College Board. See here: https://apstudent.collegeboard.org/home

You are arguing with 2 different people who I think agree and disagree with you

Let me try another example

You are teaching Algebra

One class you are teaching to children at a 9th grade math level
One class you are teaching to children at a 5th grade math level

Both classes are called Algebra and have the same content and course material but I think you will admit the actual course will be very different between the two sections.

This is what is happening with AP. When you have kids that aren't ready for college material in an AP class it can't be a college level class. The kids that are actually ready for a college level class suffer as the course is dumbed down to generally reflect the mean ability level of a kid in the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You may not be aware of this but today AP & honors classes are the regular classes. Over the years these have been watered down so that more people are able to participate. This has affected the rigor of these classes.

Do you have any evidence that the content of the AP US History class (for example) is less rigorous than it used to be at some point in the past (when?)?

NP who teaches APUSH. The course outline has not been watered down. I do feel that the new multiple choice questions based on documents require less historical knowledge. On the other hand, they may not be easier because sometimes they are subjective. Still many of the adults on DCUM who mock APs probably wouldn't pass.

Back when I was in public HS @FCPS, there was roughly a half-dozen AP classes offered and we didn't get extra grade points for taking them. From a class of 600, there was typically 30 kids enrolled in any one of these classes, but this was just the kids in the top 5% in terms of GPA.

That doesn't mean that the content has been watered down. It just means that more people take AP classes than used to. I think that's a good thing.

The problem is people aren't smarter than they were a few decades ago. When 30% of a class takes AP vs 3% there is a difference in the content.

No. The AP course is the AP course, whether it's taught at high schools that allow everybody to take the class who wants to or at high schools that only allow certain people to take the class.

lol you can't be serious. There are schools where you have people taking AP that are several grade levels behind. There is no way that course is the same level of rigor as a course with students who are actually ready for college level material

NP
You’re confused.
The AP courses is the AP course. If you weren't ready for the course, it will show on the test. Those who are ready will score high and those who are not, will flunk.

You must be confused. AP today means regular class. Regular class means remedial. This is all part of the grade inflation trend where every child is a genius and gets a trophy.

You truly have no idea about AP. Grade inflation has no bearings on AP scores.
It's a course created by the college board...a test given by the college board not school districts, not counties or states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You must be confused. AP today means regular class. Regular class means remedial. This is all part of the grade inflation trend where every child is a genius and gets a trophy.

No, AP means AP. A course created by the College Board, with an associated test, also created by the College Board. See here: https://apstudent.collegeboard.org/home

You are arguing with 2 different people who I think agree and disagree with you

Let me try another example

You are teaching Algebra

One class you are teaching to children at a 9th grade math level
One class you are teaching to children at a 5th grade math level

Both classes are called Algebra and have the same content and course material but I think you will admit the actual course will be very different between the two sections.

This is what is happening with AP. When you have kids that aren't ready for college material in an AP class it can't be a college level class. The kids that are actually ready for a college level class suffer as the course is dumbed down to generally reflect the mean ability level of a kid in the class.

You’re clueless

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You must be confused. AP today means regular class. Regular class means remedial. This is all part of the grade inflation trend where every child is a genius and gets a trophy.

No, AP means AP. A course created by the College Board, with an associated test, also created by the College Board. See here: https://apstudent.collegeboard.org/home

You are arguing with 2 different people who I think agree and disagree with you

Let me try another example

You are teaching Algebra

One class you are teaching to children at a 9th grade math level
One class you are teaching to children at a 5th grade math level

Both classes are called Algebra and have the same content and course material but I think you will admit the actual course will be very different between the two sections.

This is what is happening with AP. When you have kids that aren't ready for college material in an AP class it can't be a college level class. The kids that are actually ready for a college level class suffer as the course is dumbed down to generally reflect the mean ability level of a kid in the class.

Ummm, no. The kids that aren't ready fail. The course is the course. All of the material needs to be covered, and in an appropriate style for the particular course. All APs require some level of independent work from the students, and if they don't do it, they fail. Kids that are ready for the course still get the same instruction, regardless of kids being in the class who aren't ready for the class (and they tend to drop the course anyway ...)

-AP teacher