Turns Out Americans Actually Do Want to Tax the Rich

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Name off some of those unfair rules. I mean, what gave Microsoft an unfair advantage over Apple in the late 80s, and what gave Apple an unfair advantage over Microsoft in the late 2000s. What gave Amazon an unfair advantage over Barnes and Noble, and what gave Five Guys an unfair advantage over your local favorite burger joint. No one is entitled to anything that they have not earned, and what they earn is determined by market value of their work output.

Where do I begin?

1. Preferential tax rate for capital gains vs. earned income
2. Corporations' ability to deduct interest expense for all forms of debts
3. Depreciation of assets to shield income from taxation
4. Legal tax avoidance maneuvers available to multi-national corporations but not small businesses
5. The LLC model that allows shady businesses to fleece innocent bystanders but leaves no one with recourse when they want to sue
6. The myriad ways to structure estates so that close to zero tax is paid
7. The fact that Apple Corp and Warren Buffet pays a tax rate that is easily 10x lower than the one I pay on my W2 income
8. The fact that SALT deduction limitations don't apply to Schedule E income

....shall I continue?

No, no, it's fair and equal. "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m always surprised at how we have become the country of “its hard so we don’t do it.”

Single payer is hard so we won’t do it
Taxing rich people is hard so we won’t do it
Making equitable education is hard so we won’t do it
Building up infrastructure is hard so we won’t do it


What is this??

Funny.
I find it hard to believe how so many choose to demonize the wealthy.
Like Howard Schultz, for example. He worked to make his millions.
Keep on, folks. The truly wealthy have options. They can choose to leave.
Much like they did in France.

No one is demonizing the wealthy - we are demonizing the wealth gap. Rising wealth gap is destructive to a country. I pay property tax for a property I bought after working 30 years. So I do not see a reason for super rich people to pay wealth tax on their diamonds, yachts, and planes they have worked for. Its okay if some wealthy folks leave America for this reason (although I can guarantee you that most would not). It's not like the wealthy people are sharing their wealth or obligation to maintain this country anyway. All the laws that the wealthy support is regressive and detrimental to the long term viability of this country. So, I do not care if they leave.

Could have fooled me. The wealth gap is being blamed on the wealthy. Democrats believe wealth is a zero-sum game, that the wealthy are wealthy because they somehow cheated the money from those people who are poor. Just look at the posts that started this thread - describing wealthy people as hoarders, implying that there is a fixed amount of wealth to be hoarded. Yes, you pay property tax, so do wealthy people.

The wealth gap is a result of the unfair rules of the game in the economic system we have set up. For billionaires that convince themselves that their wealth is 100% earned and no one else who helped create those profits is entitled to a larger share, yes they deserve to be demonized

No one is demonizing bill Gates for becoming a billionaire then giving his money away to save lives and improve education

Name off some of those unfair rules. I mean, what gave Microsoft an unfair advantage over Apple in the late 80s, and what gave Apple an unfair advantage over Microsoft in the late 2000s. What gave Amazon an unfair advantage over Barnes and Noble, and what gave Five Guys an unfair advantage over your local favorite burger joint. No one is entitled to anything that they have not earned, and what they earn is determined by market value of their work output.

Where do I begin?

1. Preferential tax rate for capital gains vs. earned income
2. Corporations' ability to deduct interest expense for all forms of debts
3. Depreciation of assets to shield income from taxation
4. Legal tax avoidance maneuvers available to multi-national corporations but not small businesses
5. The LLC model that allows shady businesses to fleece innocent bystanders but leaves no one with recourse when they want to sue
6. The myriad ways to structure estates so that close to zero tax is paid
7. The fact that Apple Corp and Warren Buffet pays a tax rate that is easily 10x lower than the one I pay on my W2 income
8. The fact that SALT deduction limitations don't apply to Schedule E income

....shall I continue?

Don't forget the tax treatment of carried interest, the loophole that has made hedge fund managers, amongst the wealthiest in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell us how taking more money from people who are wealthy will make you more wealthy.
How will taxing the wealthy solve the problem of income inequality.

One simple way that would really benefit the middle class would be to use increased tax revenues to dramatically lower tuition at public universities.

Yes, I'd even push for free 2 years of trade school or community college - with subsidized childcare - for everyone.

Healthcare.
Contraceptives.
Ways to break the poverty cycle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell us how taking more money from people who are wealthy will make you more wealthy.
How will taxing the wealthy solve the problem of income inequality.

One simple way that would really benefit the middle class would be to use increased tax revenues to dramatically lower tuition at public universities.

Yes, I'd even push for free 2 years of trade school or community college - with subsidized childcare - for everyone.

Healthcare.
Contraceptives.
Ways to break the poverty cycle.

Heathcare
Contraceptives
Free public 4 yr college to students with the grades/test scores - there are states that have this already for their graduates, and it could be expanded to ALL STATES. Right now you have to be lucky enough to live in one of those states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell us how taking more money from people who are wealthy will make you more wealthy.
How will taxing the wealthy solve the problem of income inequality.

One simple way that would really benefit the middle class would be to use increased tax revenues to dramatically lower tuition at public universities.

Yes, I'd even push for free 2 years of trade school or community college - with subsidized childcare - for everyone.

Healthcare.
Contraceptives.
Ways to break the poverty cycle.

Heathcare
Contraceptives
Free public 4 yr college to students with the grades/test scores - there are states that have this already for their graduates, and it could be expanded to ALL STATES. Right now you have to be lucky enough to live in one of those states.

Don’t forget subsidizes high quality childcare. Remember that a lot of single mothers work while their children are either unattended or attended by people who are not qualified to take care of children. Imagine how many people’s lives would change if they had high quality care for their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell us how taking more money from people who are wealthy will make you more wealthy.
How will taxing the wealthy solve the problem of income inequality.

One simple way that would really benefit the middle class would be to use increased tax revenues to dramatically lower tuition at public universities.

Yes, I'd even push for free 2 years of trade school or community college - with subsidized childcare - for everyone.

Healthcare.
Contraceptives.
Ways to break the poverty cycle.

Heathcare
Contraceptives
Free public 4 yr college to students with the grades/test scores - there are states that have this already for their graduates, and it could be expanded to ALL STATES. Right now you have to be lucky enough to live in one of those states.

Don’t forget subsidizes high quality childcare. Remember that a lot of single mothers work while their children are either unattended or attended by people who are not qualified to take care of children. Imagine how many people’s lives would change if they had high quality care for their children.

Absolutely.

I'd be happy to pay more in taxes if we could help others do more for themselves. And limit the loopholes to make it more fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And I didn't say it was my top priority. Just listed 2 examples that would benefit middle class people like someone asked for

1. Universal healthcare, the rich and upper middle class already have good coverage. It will benefit the poor and working poor.
2. Free food for all children. The rich and upper middle class would not even bother to look at basic food items. It will benefit the poor and working poor.
3. Free college education, the rich and upper middle class already can afford $70K/year tuition. It will benefit the poor and middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Trump voter here; I don't have a huge problem with a wealth tax over twenty million, or increasing marginal rates over 10 million.

Fellow Trump voter here, why 20 million though, and why 10 million? How did you arrive that that number? Just feels right?

Arbitrary .... I guess I don’t think they should apply to the high wage w2 doctor or lawyer.....

My biggest fear is only once instituted they may be adjusted downwards.....

But I also feel that if we are ever going to have political consensus, both sides must clalm down with the slippery slope arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m always surprised at how we have become the country of “its hard so we don’t do it.”

Single payer is hard so we won’t do it
Taxing rich people is hard so we won’t do it
Making equitable education is hard so we won’t do it
Building up infrastructure is hard so we won’t do it


What is this??

Funny.
I find it hard to believe how so many choose to demonize the wealthy.
Like Howard Schultz, for example. He worked to make his millions.
Keep on, folks. The truly wealthy have options. They can choose to leave.
Much like they did in France.

No one is demonizing the wealthy - we are demonizing the wealth gap. Rising wealth gap is destructive to a country. I pay property tax for a property I bought after working 30 years. So I do not see a reason for super rich people to pay wealth tax on their diamonds, yachts, and planes they have worked for. Its okay if some wealthy folks leave America for this reason (although I can guarantee you that most would not). It's not like the wealthy people are sharing their wealth or obligation to maintain this country anyway. All the laws that the wealthy support is regressive and detrimental to the long term viability of this country. So, I do not care if they leave.

Could have fooled me. The wealth gap is being blamed on the wealthy. Democrats believe wealth is a zero-sum game, that the wealthy are wealthy because they somehow cheated the money from those people who are poor. Just look at the posts that started this thread - describing wealthy people as hoarders, implying that there is a fixed amount of wealth to be hoarded. Yes, you pay property tax, so do wealthy people.

The wealth gap is a result of the unfair rules of the game in the economic system we have set up. For billionaires that convince themselves that their wealth is 100% earned and no one else who helped create those profits is entitled to a larger share, yes they deserve to be demonized

No one is demonizing bill Gates for becoming a billionaire then giving his money away to save lives and improve education

Name off some of those unfair rules. I mean, what gave Microsoft an unfair advantage over Apple in the late 80s, and what gave Apple an unfair advantage over Microsoft in the late 2000s. What gave Amazon an unfair advantage over Barnes and Noble, and what gave Five Guys an unfair advantage over your local favorite burger joint. No one is entitled to anything that they have not earned, and what they earn is determined by market value of their work output.

Where do I begin?

1. Preferential tax rate for capital gains vs. earned income
2. Corporations' ability to deduct interest expense for all forms of debts
3. Depreciation of assets to shield income from taxation
4. Legal tax avoidance maneuvers available to multi-national corporations but not small businesses
5. The LLC model that allows shady businesses to fleece innocent bystanders but leaves no one with recourse when they want to sue
6. The myriad ways to structure estates so that close to zero tax is paid
7. The fact that Apple Corp and Warren Buffet pays a tax rate that is easily 10x lower than the one I pay on my W2 income
8. The fact that SALT deduction limitations don't apply to Schedule E income

....shall I continue?

Don't forget the tax treatment of carried interest, the loophole that has made hedge fund managers, amongst the wealthiest in the world.

NP. And the fact that conmen like Donald Trump can file for a million bankruptcies on their shady businesses while students can hardly ever file for bankruptcy on their student loans..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I didn't say it was my top priority. Just listed 2 examples that would benefit middle class people like someone asked for

1. Universal healthcare, the rich and upper middle class already have good coverage. It will benefit the poor and working poor.
2. Free food for all children. The rich and upper middle class would not even bother to look at basic food items. It will benefit the poor and working poor.
3. Free college education, the rich and upper middle class already can afford $70K/year tuition. It will benefit the poor and middle class.

Good points. Especially the food. It's disgraceful that children today go hungry in our country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Trump voter here; I don't have a huge problem with a wealth tax over twenty million, or increasing marginal rates over 10 million.

Fellow Trump voter here, why 20 million though, and why 10 million? How did you arrive that that number? Just feels right?

Arbitrary .... I guess I don’t think they should apply to the high wage w2 doctor or lawyer.....

My biggest fear is only once instituted they may be adjusted downwards.....

But I also feel that if we are ever going to have political consensus, both sides must clalm down with the slippery slope arguments.

The issue I have with wealth tax is that it's bound to have exclusions, because no government can reliably determine an accurate net worth of every single individual in the country. And when you have exclusions, people who are subject to the tax are going to do economically inefficient things to move their wealth into things that are excluded. If you exclude holdings of private companies because their valuation is inherently difficult to gauge, then people are going to move their money from public companies into private ones. There may very well be a trend of companies taking themselves private. Unlike some of my more philosophical fellow Republicans and Libertarians, I believe the Federal government has broad powers to tax, and while a tax on wealth may not be a good idea, it is not immoral, or certainly no more immoral than an extremely progressive tax system. So long as the government is allowed to take different amounts of money from different individuals, the subject of "why" the money is being taken becomes rather academic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that for the added revenue from taxing the rich to make a dent, DCUM would have to agree that the rich includes anyone worth $3 million or earning $300k+. Watch the DCUM liberals squawk about that.

But I'd be for it.

Tax away. HHI $500-700k.

Glad to hear it. I wish more rich families in DC liberal land were like you. (And yes, you're rich.)

I wish more rich families in conservative land were like this, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m always surprised at how we have become the country of “its hard so we don’t do it.”

Single payer is hard so we won’t do it
Taxing rich people is hard so we won’t do it
Making equitable education is hard so we won’t do it
Building up infrastructure is hard so we won’t do it


What is this??

Funny.
I find it hard to believe how so many choose to demonize the wealthy.
Like Howard Schultz, for example. He worked to make his millions.
Keep on, folks. The truly wealthy have options. They can choose to leave.
Much like they did in France.

No one is demonizing the wealthy - we are demonizing the wealth gap. Rising wealth gap is destructive to a country. I pay property tax for a property I bought after working 30 years. So I do not see a reason for super rich people to pay wealth tax on their diamonds, yachts, and planes they have worked for. Its okay if some wealthy folks leave America for this reason (although I can guarantee you that most would not). It's not like the wealthy people are sharing their wealth or obligation to maintain this country anyway. All the laws that the wealthy support is regressive and detrimental to the long term viability of this country. So, I do not care if they leave.

Could have fooled me. The wealth gap is being blamed on the wealthy. Democrats believe wealth is a zero-sum game, that the wealthy are wealthy because they somehow cheated the money from those people who are poor. Just look at the posts that started this thread - describing wealthy people as hoarders, implying that there is a fixed amount of wealth to be hoarded. Yes, you pay property tax, so do wealthy people.

The wealth gap is a result of the unfair rules of the game in the economic system we have set up. For billionaires that convince themselves that their wealth is 100% earned and no one else who helped create those profits is entitled to a larger share, yes they deserve to be demonized

No one is demonizing bill Gates for becoming a billionaire then giving his money away to save lives and improve education

Name off some of those unfair rules. I mean, what gave Microsoft an unfair advantage over Apple in the late 80s, and what gave Apple an unfair advantage over Microsoft in the late 2000s. What gave Amazon an unfair advantage over Barnes and Noble, and what gave Five Guys an unfair advantage over your local favorite burger joint. No one is entitled to anything that they have not earned, and what they earn is determined by market value of their work output.

Where do I begin?

1. Preferential tax rate for capital gains vs. earned income
2. Corporations' ability to deduct interest expense for all forms of debts
3. Depreciation of assets to shield income from taxation
4. Legal tax avoidance maneuvers available to multi-national corporations but not small businesses
5. The LLC model that allows shady businesses to fleece innocent bystanders but leaves no one with recourse when they want to sue
6. The myriad ways to structure estates so that close to zero tax is paid
7. The fact that Apple Corp and Warren Buffet pays a tax rate that is easily 10x lower than the one I pay on my W2 income
8. The fact that SALT deduction limitations don't apply to Schedule E income

....shall I continue?

Don't forget the tax treatment of carried interest, the loophole that has made hedge fund managers, amongst the wealthiest in the world.

NP. And the fact that conmen like Donald Trump can file for a million bankruptcies on their shady businesses while students can hardly ever file for bankruptcy on their student loans..

+1 I have a 2 person LLC. We don't get the pass through deduction because the income is not considered QBI, yet I still pay the employer portion of taxes through my LLC, but the tax rate on the income is taxed at the personal income rate which is higher than the corporate tax rate. And then add in the limit on the SALT deduction , I don't see much in tax savings. This tax cut certainly doesn't help self employed people.

[Anonymous]

^sorry, meant to state that I personally pay the employer portion of the income tax, not through the LLC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I didn't say it was my top priority. Just listed 2 examples that would benefit middle class people like someone asked for

1. Universal healthcare, the rich and upper middle class already have good coverage. It will benefit the poor and working poor.
2. Free food for all children. The rich and upper middle class would not even bother to look at basic food items. It will benefit the poor and working poor.
3. Free college education, the rich and upper middle class already can afford $70K/year tuition. It will benefit the poor and middle class.

We already have these to a large degree.

1. Poor people get Medicaid, and lower-income get highly subsidized care
2. We already give free food to poor and lower-income, via food stamps
3. Pell grants cover the full tuition cost for lower-middle class families and below at the community college level

Honestly, some of you act as though we have no giveaway programs right now. We do indeed. But what extreme liberals want - free health care!...free food for all!.....free college! - just isn't affordable. No way. No how.