No More Reading Levels in Grades 3 - 5

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents with higher achieving students have just about had it with the dumbing down. Mcps will eventually see more and more higher achieving students pulled out. If more reasonably priced private schools or education co-ops existed, I'd pull both of my kids out immediately.

How is expecting kids to be 1 to 2 grades above grade level dumbing things down?

It’s not that. It’s the fact that they no longer want to keep records. Keeping it off the report card makes it easier to say that kids are all ‘doing fine’. Allows MCPS to get out of providing services for kids who might need services. Allows MCPS to talk about how all the URMS are doing fantastic because there is no data otherwise.

same concept as then they ceased final exams in HS.
And stopped issueing B+s or A- so everyone's final grade rounds up to an A in HS.

all smoke and mirrors, and has the top half of the class scrambling to differentiate themselves, since their hard work getting a 95% correct is an A just like the 86%'er kid.

No, it’s not equivalent at all. Kids learn to read by third and read to learn third grade and beyond. This is just another way to sweep LDs under the rug. Mcps doesn’t use evidence based techniques or curriculum to address dyslexia even though 1 in 5 people have some form of it.

People who have means will tutor or do private school. If people try to fight the system, they will be crushed by MCPS lawyers and this just makes it easier.

We are saying the same things.

MCPS created only 2 bands of ranking students: pass/fail, A/B. This both aids them in neglecting to provide LD services to K-3 kids and aids them in saying 50% of their HS is 4.0 unweighted.

We have a family history of dyslexia. From what I see at MCPS, they will not lift a finger to evaluate my child's reading or letter/number comprehension until 3rd grade and that will be a 3-9 month process. Most likely we won't get an IED plan or bethesda school specialist appointed, because MCPS must triage its resources to severe LD and ESOL cases where kids are grade levels behind their age. If we do manage to get an IED for dyslexia, my kid will be pulled out 1 or 2x a week with a small group of other LD kids, of any LD.

We hope to move by then.

[Anonymous]

spo to be clear, that will be 4 grades of public schooling where my child is not fully learning because they refuse to test or accomodate dylexia until it goes to their LD boards and that only happens during 2nd or 3rd grade.

total waste of time and terrible on confidence of said child who doesn't know why s/he hates reading and writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MIRL and these other tests that have been constantly administered are often done incorrectly because teachers have to process so many students in little time. More often than not they just rubber stamp kids to the next level on the achievement escalator. The result is kids who can read higher are often marked lower. This set of standards takes up valuable class time and harms more often than it helps. Overall this is a huge step in the right direction. Consistent standardized tests like MAP-R are signfiicantly more helpful.

Giving a student a running record (MIRL) doesn't take that long. In fact, you can do a couple of kids from each reading group daily and easily be done by the end of the month to input the data. It's the data entry that was a killer. I agree that MAPs provide a great deal of information. I sure wish the curriculum aligned better with the questions asked of students on MAP testing. K to 2 will be giving kids the MAP-RF test for the first time this year. They have to give it the same months as mClass so that's quite a bit of testing for 5 to 8 year olds. I'm thinking they might be phasing out mClass in the future and replace it with MAP-RF since it's completely computer scored and doesn't require sub time for a teacher to complete.

That would be an improvement. mClass takes so much time and it just isn't possible to be thorough. They typically base it on a single story for a level instead of several and teachers being human aren't as consistent in their methods.

Less pointless testing sounds like a welcome change. WTG MCPS!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s not that. It’s the fact that they no longer want to keep records. Keeping it off the report card makes it easier to say that kids are all ‘doing fine’. Allows MCPS to get out of providing services for kids who might need services. Allows MCPS to talk about how all the URMS are doing fantastic because there is no data otherwise.

I really, really wish that people would stop referring to "URMS". It's dehumanizing. If you're talking about kids who are black, kids who are Hispanic/Latino, and kids who are poor, then please talk about kids who are black, kids who are Hispanic/Latino, and kids who are poor.

wow, a 4 letter acronym would sure be more efficient than what you wrote.

Yes, it is. And NIMBYs is more efficient than "People who don't want X in their neighborhoods", yet people who don't want X in their neighborhoods object to being called NIMBYs. So maybe efficiency isn't the best standard for this.

I like neighborhoods that have people with the same values as me: Work and study hard, Stay out of Trouble, Be kind, Pay your taxes, Take care of your health, Don't break the law.

Where should I live?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MIRL and these other tests that have been constantly administered are often done incorrectly because teachers have to process so many students in little time. More often than not they just rubber stamp kids to the next level on the achievement escalator. The result is kids who can read higher are often marked lower. This set of standards takes up valuable class time and harms more often than it helps. Overall this is a huge step in the right direction. Consistent standardized tests like MAP-R are signfiicantly more helpful.

Giving a student a running record (MIRL) doesn't take that long. In fact, you can do a couple of kids from each reading group daily and easily be done by the end of the month to input the data. It's the data entry that was a killer. I agree that MAPs provide a great deal of information. I sure wish the curriculum aligned better with the questions asked of students on MAP testing. K to 2 will be giving kids the MAP-RF test for the first time this year. They have to give it the same months as mClass so that's quite a bit of testing for 5 to 8 year olds. I'm thinking they might be phasing out mClass in the future and replace it with MAP-RF since it's completely computer scored and doesn't require sub time for a teacher to complete.

That would be an improvement. mClass takes so much time and it just isn't possible to be thorough. They typically base it on a single story for a level instead of several and teachers being human aren't as consistent in their methods.

Less pointless testing sounds like a welcome change. WTG MCPS!

wait what? MAP tests for K, 1 and 2 now? Does that mean their cutting social studies to do more computer class clicking training? Are MAps like 2-3 times a year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:spo to be clear, that will be 4 grades of public schooling where my child is not fully learning because they refuse to test or accomodate dylexia until it goes to their LD boards and that only happens during 2nd or 3rd grade.

total waste of time and terrible on confidence of said child who doesn't know why s/he hates reading and writing.

No actually MCPS does not recognize dyslexia at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As the parent of a child with an IEP who is behind, this seems like another way for MCPS to deny a child is struggling.

Same concern here -- I wonder how this will affect my child who is already behind in reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents with higher achieving students have just about had it with the dumbing down. Mcps will eventually see more and more higher achieving students pulled out. If more reasonably priced private schools or education co-ops existed, I'd pull both of my kids out immediately.

How is expecting kids to be 1 to 2 grades above grade level dumbing things down?

It’s not that. It’s the fact that they no longer want to keep records. Keeping it off the report card makes it easier to say that kids are all ‘doing fine’. Allows MCPS to get out of providing services for kids who might need services. Allows MCPS to talk about how all the URMS are doing fantastic because there is no data otherwise.

same concept as then they ceased final exams in HS.
And stopped issueing B+s or A- so everyone's final grade rounds up to an A in HS.

all smoke and mirrors, and has the top half of the class scrambling to differentiate themselves, since their hard work getting a 95% correct is an A just like the 86%'er kid.

No, it’s not equivalent at all. Kids learn to read by third and read to learn third grade and beyond. This is just another way to sweep LDs under the rug. Mcps doesn’t use evidence based techniques or curriculum to address dyslexia even though 1 in 5 people have some form of it.

People who have means will tutor or do private school. If people try to fight the system, they will be crushed by MCPS lawyers and this just makes it easier.

We are saying the same things.

MCPS created only 2 bands of ranking students: pass/fail, A/B. This both aids them in neglecting to provide LD services to K-3 kids and aids them in saying 50% of their HS is 4.0 unweighted.

We have a family history of dyslexia. From what I see at MCPS, they will not lift a finger to evaluate my child's reading or letter/number comprehension until 3rd grade and that will be a 3-9 month process. Most likely we won't get an IED plan or bethesda school specialist appointed, because MCPS must triage its resources to severe LD and ESOL cases where kids are grade levels behind their age. If we do manage to get an IED for dyslexia, my kid will be pulled out 1 or 2x a week with a small group of other LD kids, of any LD.

We hope to move by then.

No we are not saying the same thing. Ranking of high school students on the verge of graduating is absolutely not similar at all to identifying and remediating dyslexia. If you actually knew anything about dyslexia, the public schools in general do everything they can not to address it.

[Anonymous]

I am concerned that we are replacing nuanced, evaluative time with the teacher with computer testing. Is that what is happening? Because that is what they do in math now, and as far as I can tell, DC’s teacher has little idea how the kids are really doing in math. She doesn’t know who can get the questions right super fast v.s. who can get them right pretty fast v.s. who can’t get them right at all. She only knows the final score on the math apps they do: who got them right super fast v.s. all the others. And now the whole stressed-out class is fixated on math facts instead of math knowledge in general. It’s awful.

Don’t teachers want this one-on-one evaluation of student abilities? I don’t really care about the reading levels, and I think some of the kids (and parents) get too hung up on it, but it is upsetting to think that there will be this much less incentive for teachers to attempt rigorous individual evaluation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents with higher achieving students have just about had it with the dumbing down. Mcps will eventually see more and more higher achieving students pulled out. If more reasonably priced private schools or education co-ops existed, I'd pull both of my kids out immediately.

How is expecting kids to be 1 to 2 grades above grade level dumbing things down?

It’s not that. It’s the fact that they no longer want to keep records. Keeping it off the report card makes it easier to say that kids are all ‘doing fine’. Allows MCPS to get out of providing services for kids who might need services. Allows MCPS to talk about how all the URMS are doing fantastic because there is no data otherwise.

same concept as then they ceased final exams in HS.
And stopped issueing B+s or A- so everyone's final grade rounds up to an A in HS.

all smoke and mirrors, and has the top half of the class scrambling to differentiate themselves, since their hard work getting a 95% correct is an A just like the 86%'er kid.

No, it’s not equivalent at all. Kids learn to read by third and read to learn third grade and beyond. This is just another way to sweep LDs under the rug. Mcps doesn’t use evidence based techniques or curriculum to address dyslexia even though 1 in 5 people have some form of it.

People who have means will tutor or do private school. If people try to fight the system, they will be crushed by MCPS lawyers and this just makes it easier.

We are saying the same things.

MCPS created only 2 bands of ranking students: pass/fail, A/B. This both aids them in neglecting to provide LD services to K-3 kids and aids them in saying 50% of their HS is 4.0 unweighted.

We have a family history of dyslexia. From what I see at MCPS, they will not lift a finger to evaluate my child's reading or letter/number comprehension until 3rd grade and that will be a 3-9 month process. Most likely we won't get an IED plan or bethesda school specialist appointed, because MCPS must triage its resources to severe LD and ESOL cases where kids are grade levels behind their age. If we do manage to get an IED for dyslexia, my kid will be pulled out 1 or 2x a week with a small group of other LD kids, of any LD.

We hope to move by then.

No we are not saying the same thing. Ranking of high school students on the verge of graduating is absolutely not similar at all to identifying and remediating dyslexia. If you actually knew anything about dyslexia, the public schools in general do everything they can not to address it.

New poster not quoted in the chain above.

I agree that identifying and remediating dyslexia and ranking high school students are two very different concerns.

However, I agree with previous posters that MCPS's general trend is to minimize effective student data that is available to parents. I would add to the existing list the following examples:

Teacher comments were eliminated in ES.

Most work isn't graded, merely checked for completion.

Work that is graded, if the student has attempted it, receives a minimum grade of 50%, regardless of it's correctness.

Students are given the opportunity to retake tests.

Tests are kept at school and parents only get to see summary reports that tell the number of items the student got correct/incorrect. The parent can't see which questions were missed, nor what the student did wrong.

The ES grading scale was changed to one where it was apparently nearly impossible in many cases to get the top grade, and the next grade could include basically anything from an A to a C/D. Thankfully, I think the scale is being changed again, hopefully for the better.

MCPS is so intent on maintaining it's image of being "one of the best school systems in the nation" that they surpress data that might show otherwise. Moreover, if parents aren't given data which might indicate a problem, then they may be less likely to bother MCPS for a solution. Those few who try are easy to reject because MCPS doesn't show a problem. Both the dyslexia issue and the high school ranking issue fall under this umbrella, and they aren't the only issues involved. While each issue needs to be addressed separately, it would help all of them if MCPS would provide clear student data to the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:spo to be clear, that will be 4 grades of public schooling where my child is not fully learning because they refuse to test or accomodate dylexia until it goes to their LD boards and that only happens during 2nd or 3rd grade.

total waste of time and terrible on confidence of said child who doesn't know why s/he hates reading and writing.

No actually MCPS does not recognize dyslexia at all.

yes they do, they usually pair it with ADHD. just add more codes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am concerned that we are replacing nuanced, evaluative time with the teacher with computer testing. Is that what is happening? Because that is what they do in math now, and as far as I can tell, DC’s teacher has little idea how the kids are really doing in math. She doesn’t know who can get the questions right super fast v.s. who can get them right pretty fast v.s. who can’t get them right at all. She only knows the final score on the math apps they do: who got them right super fast v.s. all the others. And now the whole stressed-out class is fixated on math facts instead of math knowledge in general. It’s awful.

Don’t teachers want this one-on-one evaluation of student abilities? I don’t really care about the reading levels, and I think some of the kids (and parents) get too hung up on it, but it is upsetting to think that there will be this much less incentive for teachers to attempt rigorous individual evaluation.

excellent point. we need teacher aides in all K and 1st grades stat.
I volunteered and even in 1st grade the kids reading aloud at the teacher center let the strongest kid (who is no taught taught by his parents or grandparents at home) read first, and then the next kids try to memorize/repeat what s/he said. Teacher just nods along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents with higher achieving students have just about had it with the dumbing down. Mcps will eventually see more and more higher achieving students pulled out. If more reasonably priced private schools or education co-ops existed, I'd pull both of my kids out immediately.

How is expecting kids to be 1 to 2 grades above grade level dumbing things down?

It’s not that. It’s the fact that they no longer want to keep records. Keeping it off the report card makes it easier to say that kids are all ‘doing fine’. Allows MCPS to get out of providing services for kids who might need services. Allows MCPS to talk about how all the URMS are doing fantastic because there is no data otherwise.

same concept as then they ceased final exams in HS.
And stopped issueing B+s or A- so everyone's final grade rounds up to an A in HS.

all smoke and mirrors, and has the top half of the class scrambling to differentiate themselves, since their hard work getting a 95% correct is an A just like the 86%'er kid.

No, it’s not equivalent at all. Kids learn to read by third and read to learn third grade and beyond. This is just another way to sweep LDs under the rug. Mcps doesn’t use evidence based techniques or curriculum to address dyslexia even though 1 in 5 people have some form of it.

People who have means will tutor or do private school. If people try to fight the system, they will be crushed by MCPS lawyers and this just makes it easier.

We are saying the same things.

MCPS created only 2 bands of ranking students: pass/fail, A/B. This both aids them in neglecting to provide LD services to K-3 kids and aids them in saying 50% of their HS is 4.0 unweighted.

We have a family history of dyslexia. From what I see at MCPS, they will not lift a finger to evaluate my child's reading or letter/number comprehension until 3rd grade and that will be a 3-9 month process. Most likely we won't get an IED plan or bethesda school specialist appointed, because MCPS must triage its resources to severe LD and ESOL cases where kids are grade levels behind their age. If we do manage to get an IED for dyslexia, my kid will be pulled out 1 or 2x a week with a small group of other LD kids, of any LD.

We hope to move by then.

No we are not saying the same thing. Ranking of high school students on the verge of graduating is absolutely not similar at all to identifying and remediating dyslexia. If you actually knew anything about dyslexia, the public schools in general do everything they can not to address it.

OMG, that is just it. MCPS does NOT rank HS students. MCPS does not even delineate between grades except for an A or a B. MCPS does not have final exams in HS. MCPS is doing everything in its power to artificially narrow the "achievement gap" be eliminating grading and performance stratas throughout its whole school system.

Same for LD students, if there are only Pass and Fail buckets in ES, well, unless your kid is severely impaired, they get a Pass. You can deal with it privately. Or bring your $5k neuropyche test and lawyer and lobby for an IED, maybe you'll one in a year's time of meetings.

Across the board, MCPS is doing everything it can to window dress performance to look proficient and competent. I honestly do not know why anyone would move here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MIRL and these other tests that have been constantly administered are often done incorrectly because teachers have to process so many students in little time. More often than not they just rubber stamp kids to the next level on the achievement escalator. The result is kids who can read higher are often marked lower. This set of standards takes up valuable class time and harms more often than it helps. Overall this is a huge step in the right direction. Consistent standardized tests like MAP-R are signfiicantly more helpful.

Giving a student a running record (MIRL) doesn't take that long. In fact, you can do a couple of kids from each reading group daily and easily be done by the end of the month to input the data. It's the data entry that was a killer. I agree that MAPs provide a great deal of information. I sure wish the curriculum aligned better with the questions asked of students on MAP testing. K to 2 will be giving kids the MAP-RF test for the first time this year. They have to give it the same months as mClass so that's quite a bit of testing for 5 to 8 year olds. I'm thinking they might be phasing out mClass in the future and replace it with MAP-RF since it's completely computer scored and doesn't require sub time for a teacher to complete.

That would be an improvement. mClass takes so much time and it just isn't possible to be thorough. They typically base it on a single story for a level instead of several and teachers being human aren't as consistent in their methods.

Less pointless testing sounds like a welcome change. WTG MCPS!

wait what? MAP tests for K, 1 and 2 now? Does that mean their cutting social studies to do more computer class clicking training? Are MAps like 2-3 times a year?

Yes, it's awesome. Instead of taking up 2 weeks of teacher time at the beginning, middle and end of each year your kid now takes a test for one hour twice a year. That means more time for education! Also the test is far more thorough and consistently administered than random mess that was mclass/mirl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MIRL and these other tests that have been constantly administered are often done incorrectly because teachers have to process so many students in little time. More often than not they just rubber stamp kids to the next level on the achievement escalator. The result is kids who can read higher are often marked lower. This set of standards takes up valuable class time and harms more often than it helps. Overall this is a huge step in the right direction. Consistent standardized tests like MAP-R are signfiicantly more helpful.

Giving a student a running record (MIRL) doesn't take that long. In fact, you can do a couple of kids from each reading group daily and easily be done by the end of the month to input the data. It's the data entry that was a killer. I agree that MAPs provide a great deal of information. I sure wish the curriculum aligned better with the questions asked of students on MAP testing. K to 2 will be giving kids the MAP-RF test for the first time this year. They have to give it the same months as mClass so that's quite a bit of testing for 5 to 8 year olds. I'm thinking they might be phasing out mClass in the future and replace it with MAP-RF since it's completely computer scored and doesn't require sub time for a teacher to complete.

That would be an improvement. mClass takes so much time and it just isn't possible to be thorough. They typically base it on a single story for a level instead of several and teachers being human aren't as consistent in their methods.

Not to mention the computer test was something they did already in addition to the nonsense that's being phased out.

Less pointless testing sounds like a welcome change. WTG MCPS!

wait what? MAP tests for K, 1 and 2 now? Does that mean their cutting social studies to do more computer class clicking training? Are MAps like 2-3 times a year?

Yes, it's awesome. Instead of taking up 2 weeks of teacher time at the beginning, middle and end of each year your kid now takes a test for one hour twice a year. That means more time for education! Also the test is far more thorough and consistently administered than random mess that was mclass/mirl.