What happens to the bottom 10% of the class at an elite?

[Anonymous]

Well, one in ten kids will be in that bottom ten percent.

I bet the schools don't rank with enough information to discern where in the bottom third a kid is.

They go on with their lives. If they got bad grades because they were lazy and irresponsible, those patterns will follow them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, it's hard to get bad grades at an elite school due to grade inflation.

Second, if you have an HYPS degree, no one cares about your grades. I've literally never put my GPA on a resume. I wasn't advised to do so by our career office, and I find it very odd when people do it.

Basically, unless you include it on your resume, no one hiring you knows where you ranked in your class. And at least at my undergrad, the only signifier of rank was whether you were Phi Beta Kappa or not.

The bottom 10% are not getting A's or B's. Bottom 10% are likely to have a 2.00-2.50 graduating GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, it's hard to get bad grades at an elite school due to grade inflation.

Second, if you have an HYPS degree, no one cares about your grades. I've literally never put my GPA on a resume. I wasn't advised to do so by our career office, and I find it very odd when people do it.

Basically, unless you include it on your resume, no one hiring you knows where you ranked in your class. And at least at my undergrad, the only signifier of rank was whether you were Phi Beta Kappa or not.

Eh. My DH and I met on Wall Street back in the late 90s in two different investment banks. We both had to put GPA AND SAT scores on our first applications. Not sure if they still do that but I wouldn't be surprised. I'm pretty sure the bank I worked with had a 1400 minimum. Meaning if you couldn't score above that, you weren't worth looking at all.

+1. Bezos met his wife when she interviewed for a job at his investment firm. He said he found her attractive...after seeing her SAT score.

[Anonymous]

All of the top firms that recruit on campus will ask for GPA and standardized test scores. Bottom 10% won't even get an interview. T

[Anonymous]

I don't know, I graduated 15 years ago from a lower-ranked Ivy, and most of the guys who were TERRIBLE students that I knew (and I knew them because they partied hard... and I hooked up with them) are now mind-blowingly successful. Like, rich bankers, professors at Harvard, top-government jobs.

On the other hand, many in the top 10% (as I was, and many in my group of friends were) are not especially successful at all.

The only way GPA matters is for things like getting into law school. And even then, if you take a few years off to work and still manage to get a great LSAT score, it doesn't matter THAT much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What is really frightening is that you both don't understand that it takes 10 to 20 years after graduation from college to have any idea "what happens to someone" or what happens to any particular cohort. The first job people get and if they "have 3 job offers in January" has much more to do with the economy (expected economy) at that time than where they went to school. Over those 10 to 20 years, the economic cycles average out and the benefit of one type of background or another plays out. Any "study" that was based on the last two or three years would have cherry picked the data by definition.

I get that, but higher-ed has changed sooooo much in the last 20 years. Global, common app, fast-moving tech economy. It's just tying to connect 02-06 alums to current campus climate and outcomes is just silly.

Ok, fine. I work in the tech sector. I DGAF about people's GPAs when I interview them. I notice where they went to school, but I mostly pay attention to 1) what they've done (depending on seniority that may include any relevant stuff from college incl. coursework subjects, not grades), 2) what they can speak intelligently and creatively to, and 3) how they present themselves. Honestly, my recruiters are good enough that I rarely have to worry about 1), and 2) and 3) are mixed because I'm trying to suss out whether they are smooth talkers vs. actual experts and whether they are arrogant vs. confident.

There are obviously employers that care about GPS, but they aren't 100% of all employers. Interesting and relevant experience post-undergrad can even make up for poor grades in grad school admission. The only members of the bottom 10% of Harvard who are going to fail in life are the ones who ended up in that bottom 10% because they didn't try and expected the world to be handed to them. Harvard selects for enough intelligence, that you'd be surprised the extent to which those "expect the world to be handed to them" are spread across the spectrum of rank. Elites can open doors you cannot fathom if you haven't experienced it. My siblings both went to one of the best-regarded public flagships, and I went to an elite. We are all successful, but I have flexibility and options they don't have because I can draw upon a network of people who just want to help or talk about school or whatever...and I have an impeccable pedigree.

Which schools comprise the elites in your sector?

My husband went to a college that no one has ever heard of (including us) as that was his only option and he's doing very well in tech. It really depends on the field. In IT, no one really cares except the really snobby ones.

[Anonymous]

Hey play sports and get recruited to ivies and LACs. Several had legacies to Ivies also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know, I graduated 15 years ago from a lower-ranked Ivy, and most of the guys who were TERRIBLE students that I knew (and I knew them because they partied hard... and I hooked up with them) are now mind-blowingly successful. Like, rich bankers, professors at Harvard, top-government jobs.

On the other hand, many in the top 10% (as I was, and many in my group of friends were) are not especially successful at all.

The only way GPA matters is for things like getting into law school. And even then, if you take a few years off to work and still manage to get a great LSAT score, it doesn't matter THAT much.

It’s because only kids who have deep family wealth and connections can afford to party and get terrible grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know, I graduated 15 years ago from a lower-ranked Ivy, and most of the guys who were TERRIBLE students that I knew (and I knew them because they partied hard... and I hooked up with them) are now mind-blowingly successful. Like, rich bankers, professors at Harvard, top-government jobs.

On the other hand, many in the top 10% (as I was, and many in my group of friends were) are not especially successful at all.

The only way GPA matters is for things like getting into law school. And even then, if you take a few years off to work and still manage to get a great LSAT score, it doesn't matter THAT much.

Good lord you're a moron. When the bulge brackets and MBB and FANG come on campus to recruit they all ask for your GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know, I graduated 15 years ago from a lower-ranked Ivy, and most of the guys who were TERRIBLE students that I knew (and I knew them because they partied hard... and I hooked up with them) are now mind-blowingly successful. Like, rich bankers, professors at Harvard, top-government jobs.

On the other hand, many in the top 10% (as I was, and many in my group of friends were) are not especially successful at all.

The only way GPA matters is for things like getting into law school. And even then, if you take a few years off to work and still manage to get a great LSAT score, it doesn't matter THAT much.

Good lord you're a moron. When the bulge brackets and MBB and FANG come on campus to recruit they all ask for your GPA.

Not if u have connections....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, it's hard to get bad grades at an elite school due to grade inflation.

Second, if you have an HYPS degree, no one cares about your grades. I've literally never put my GPA on a resume. I wasn't advised to do so by our career office, and I find it very odd when people do it.

Basically, unless you include it on your resume, no one hiring you knows where you ranked in your class. And at least at my undergrad, the only signifier of rank was whether you were Phi Beta Kappa or not.

Eh. My DH and I met on Wall Street back in the late 90s in two different investment banks. We both had to put GPA AND SAT scores on our first applications. Not sure if they still do that but I wouldn't be surprised. I'm pretty sure the bank I worked with had a 1400 minimum. Meaning if you couldn't score above that, you weren't worth looking at all.

+1. The banks that did OCI at HYP all wanted GPAs and a transcript. A few people bottom 10%ers tried to get slick and "forgot" to send their transcripts. HR always called, either before the flyout interview or before they made the offer, and that was the end of his candidacy. He apparently managed to sneak into a lower-end bank with understaffed HR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know, I graduated 15 years ago from a lower-ranked Ivy, and most of the guys who were TERRIBLE students that I knew (and I knew them because they partied hard... and I hooked up with them) are now mind-blowingly successful. Like, rich bankers, professors at Harvard, top-government jobs.

On the other hand, many in the top 10% (as I was, and many in my group of friends were) are not especially successful at all.

The only way GPA matters is for things like getting into law school. And even then, if you take a few years off to work and still manage to get a great LSAT score, it doesn't matter THAT much.

Good lord you're a moron. When the bulge brackets and MBB and FANG come on campus to recruit they all ask for your GPA.

Not if u have connections....

Sure, if you're Lloyd Blankfein's cousin, that helps. But the question is about a random kid from the bottom 10% at an elite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All the top 10 universities have near perfect graduation rates. When a bottom decile kid earns a degree are they screwed, stuck with crummy offers, or still in the mix for high status gigs? I doubt the credential helps much if your grades are awful, but maybe I’m naive.

In my experience as a former third-quartile Harvard student, if you don't have the GPA you're shut out of on-campus recruiting (OCR) and the top grad schools. If you're third quartile and not bottom decile, you may be able to get into a lower-ranked grad program (where the name on your degree may open doors, GPA aside) and redeem yourself there. But there's always teaching, which more than a few of my lower-ranked friends went into. And there's always non-OCR jobs on Indeed.com, where your the name on your degree may catch the odd recruiter's eye. The point is, top employers and grad schools care about your grades, but most employers and most grad schools do not. If you're basically Harvard material but you slacked off at college, you're going to find a place to excel.

Unless, of course, it's a substance abuse and/or mental health issue behind the bad grades, in which case, it's going to be a harder road to hoe.

Lastly, there are dumb athletes and legacies. I know athletes in aggregate do quite well academically, but most of the genuinely dumb kids I knew at Harvard were athletes. They tend to do fine.

[Anonymous]

what do they call the person who graduates last in his medical class? A doctor.

[Anonymous]

Know a guy who graduated from UVA who lives at home and works at the Y. Bottom ten percent. Without connections, I don't think you get very far.