Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I just do not think it is possible for one private organization to be everything to everybody. An atheist on this thread has already said that they allowed their kid to participate in scouting because their kid really enjoyed the activities. Maybe that poster didn't agree with the wording in every ceremony but they were respectful enough of the organization and the other members to adapt.

So I disagree that BSA discriminates against atheists. No one is going to demand proof that you have religious beliefs. You are free to attend the meeting and simply go through the motions if that is all it is to you. But you shouldn't expect flag ceremonies or anything with a religious component to be done away with just because you don't have religious beliefs.

If faith is an integral part of being a Boy Scout, then BSA discriminates against atheists.

If BSA does not discriminate against atheists, then faith is not an integral part of being a Boy Scout.

Which is it? The PP whose son is an atheist Boy Scout evidently believes that faith is not an integral part of being a Boy Scout.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My issue with BSA is not that it's a religious organization or even that religious underpinnings were the basis for overt discrimination against homosexuals for over a century (since that is currently being addressed - finally). My objection is that it specifically discriminates against one specific belief system while accepting all others in a manner which is capricious and has, as many people have pointed out, pretty much nothing to do with their core activities or the values of good citizenship that they promote.

As the poster who suggested that atheists believe that they are the "be-all and end-all of the universe" has demonstrated, this promotes the pernicious, widespread, and demonstrably false belief that atheism is antithetical to strong personal morals and good citizenship. I cannot support that message.

Think about how you might feel about the BSA if, instead of excluding atheists, they specifically excluded Hindus, or Buddhists. What if the rule was "no polytheists allowed" or "no Wiccans" or "no Scientologists?" Discrimination against atheists is still accepted in this country in a way that discrimination against other belief systems is not. It shouldn't be.

I just do not think it is possible for one private organization to be everything to everybody. An atheist on this thread has already said that they allowed their kid to participate in scouting because their kid really enjoyed the activities. Maybe that poster didn't agree with the wording in every ceremony but they were respectful enough of the organization and the other members to adapt.

So I disagree that BSA discriminates against atheists. No one is going to demand proof that you have religious beliefs. You are free to attend the meeting and simply go through the motions if that is all it is to you. But you shouldn't expect flag ceremonies or anything with a religious component to be done away with just because you don't have religious beliefs.

Of course the BSA discriminates against atheists. The fact that children have to hide their beliefs or lie about their beliefs to belong is a pretty good indication of discrimination. The fact that it's discrimination that you and others are comfortable with does not change that objective fact. Moreover, I have a really hard time wrapping my head around the hypocrisy of parents who allow or even encourage their sons to lie to stay in the Boy Scouts. Being truthful is supposed to be a fundamental, cornerstone principle for the BSA and yet, people are willing to encourage their child to ignore it when it becomes inconvenient so that he can participate in all of the fun BSA activities. I think that I could understand (but not condone) compromising fundamental values better if we were in a small town in middle America where you joined religious organizations or faced social ostracism and stigma, but here?

Like I said, it's just discrimination that many (most?) people are ok with. It doesn't make it right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I just do not think it is possible for one private organization to be everything to everybody. An atheist on this thread has already said that they allowed their kid to participate in scouting because their kid really enjoyed the activities. Maybe that poster didn't agree with the wording in every ceremony but they were respectful enough of the organization and the other members to adapt.

So I disagree that BSA discriminates against atheists. No one is going to demand proof that you have religious beliefs. You are free to attend the meeting and simply go through the motions if that is all it is to you. But you shouldn't expect flag ceremonies or anything with a religious component to be done away with just because you don't have religious beliefs.

If faith is an integral part of being a Boy Scout, then BSA discriminates against atheists.

If BSA does not discriminate against atheists, then faith is not an integral part of being a Boy Scout.

Which is it? The PP whose son is an atheist Boy Scout evidently believes that faith is not an integral part of being a Boy Scout.

PP is not preventing her son from participating in all of the activities and she is not demanding that BSA change its handbook or modify the ceremonies to make them more palatable to her own beliefs (or lack thereof). Her son participates in all of the activities even if some of the activities may have less meaning for him because of his lack of faith. It does not mean that her son is not having a lot of fun doing the scouting activities - he is probably having a ball and learning a lot which is awesome.

[Anonymous]

This is the issues with having any values. Someone without those values wants you to bend to their values.

The Boy Scouts is VERY upfront with its values. If they are not something that you can live by ... join another organization!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the issues with having any values. Someone without those values wants you to bend to their values.

The Boy Scouts is VERY upfront with its values. If they are not something that you can live by ... join another organization!

Yes!!! Ding! Ding! Ding!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the issues with having any values. Someone without those values wants you to bend to their values.

The Boy Scouts is VERY upfront with its values. If they are not something that you can live by ... join another organization!

Yes!!! Ding! Ding! Ding!

+100. Mom of two Eagle Scouts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 12 year old wants to join a Boy Scout group that one of his friends from school is part of. They go camping and do stuff like that, have weekly meetings, and they wear uniforms. I guess it seems pretty benign, but I've got some concerns, and before I let him participate, I need to know some things.

Are Boy Scouts still considered dorky? Because I don't want him being teased. When I was his age, I remember Boy Scouts being the weirdest kids with no friends, and we used to tease them a ton. I don't want him dealing with that.

As a parent, am I expected to go on these camping trips? Because the idea of sleeping outside with bugs just makes me shiver. I could never do this, and I don't want him getting into it if it means I have to camp. My idea of camping is a 3-star.

I'm concerned about him picking up bad habits or offensive ideas/language from other boys who aren't being raised by parents who make efforts to make sure they are sensitive and respectful of others.

How much does this cost? Uniform, other stuff for camping, etc?

Is there any type of religious indoctrination involved? We don't attend church, but scout team meets at a church.

Lastly, I don't want to be put in a position one day where he thinks he's more "manly" than me because he got introduced to things (like camping) or archery or shooting guns, which are things we don't do or would never allow in our household.


Thanks to any who can provide details.

Do you see the irony here? YOU were a total dick as a child, and teased those boys in scouts. And now you're worried about your son picking up bad habits from scouts that are being raised by parents that aren't teaching their children to be respectful of others? I'm not sure if this speaks poorly of your parents who CLEARLY didn't raise you right, or of you, who may possibly still be a total dick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leaving aside the issue of whether OP is a troll, I am not going to let my son join the Boy Scouts. The activities are great but, fortunately, there are plenty of opportunities to engage in similar activities without the Boy Scouts (e.g. 4H). More importantly, while it is good that, after years of intense pressure, the Boy Scouts are finally in the process of addressing their overt discrimination against homosexuals, they continue to be a non-sectarian religious organization that discriminates against atheists and, ironically, has encouraged atheist scouts to lie about their beliefs in order to remain in the organization.

Nope. Not for my son.

It is a group that asks a Scout to have some sort of faith; Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc.. So yes, doesn't sound like it's for you. But that's your loss, not theirs.

My children are UU and identify as atheists, and they did fine in Boy Scouts. Not all faiths require a belief in a higher being.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the issues with having any values. Someone without those values wants you to bend to their values.

The Boy Scouts is VERY upfront with its values. If they are not something that you can live by ... join another organization!

I agree with you on all counts.

1. Bigotry is, in fact, a value.
2. Not having that value, I would, in fact, prefer that the BSA bent to my values.
3. The Boy Scouts have, indeed, been VERY upfront about this and other values.
4. Since it's not a value that I can live with or want my child to learn, I will join another organization.

Look at that! Complete agreement!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the issues with having any values. Someone without those values wants you to bend to their values.

The Boy Scouts is VERY upfront with its values. If they are not something that you can live by ... join another organization!

I agree with you on all counts.

1. Bigotry is, in fact, a value.
2. Not having that value, I would, in fact, prefer that the BSA bent to my values.
3. The Boy Scouts have, indeed, been VERY upfront about this and other values.
4. Since it's not a value that I can live with or want my child to learn, I will join another organization.

Look at that! Complete agreement!

Boy, it's REALLY a stretch to try to say that Boy Scouts' values are lacking. You aren't doing "atheists" any favors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the issues with having any values. Someone without those values wants you to bend to their values.

The Boy Scouts is VERY upfront with its values. If they are not something that you can live by ... join another organization!

Well, but evidently it isn't, given the existence of Boy Scouts who are atheists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the issues with having any values. Someone without those values wants you to bend to their values.

The Boy Scouts is VERY upfront with its values. If they are not something that you can live by ... join another organization!

I agree with you on all counts.

1. Bigotry is, in fact, a value.
2. Not having that value, I would, in fact, prefer that the BSA bent to my values.
3. The Boy Scouts have, indeed, been VERY upfront about this and other values.
4. Since it's not a value that I can live with or want my child to learn, I will join another organization.

Look at that! Complete agreement!

Boy, it's REALLY a stretch to try to say that Boy Scouts' values are lacking. You aren't doing "atheists" any favors.

Is it really a stretch? This is an organization thst spent a century practicing overt homophobia. It is only now, slowly and against the wishes of much of its membership, trying to disengage from THAT bigotry. They may promote some fine values but let's not act like they aren't profoundly lacking in some respects. Even the BSA has (finally) acknowledged that fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the issues with having any values. Someone without those values wants you to bend to their values.

The Boy Scouts is VERY upfront with its values. If they are not something that you can live by ... join another organization!

I agree with you on all counts.

1. Bigotry is, in fact, a value.
2. Not having that value, I would, in fact, prefer that the BSA bent to my values.
3. The Boy Scouts have, indeed, been VERY upfront about this and other values.
4. Since it's not a value that I can live with or want my child to learn, I will join another organization.

Look at that! Complete agreement!

Boy, it's REALLY a stretch to try to say that Boy Scouts' values are lacking. You aren't doing "atheists" any favors.

Is it really a stretch? This is an organization thst spent a century practicing overt homophobia. It is only now, slowly and against the wishes of much of its membership, trying to disengage from THAT bigotry. They may promote some fine values but let's not act like they aren't profoundly lacking in some respects. Even the BSA has (finally) acknowledged that fact.

It's not "homophobia" to say that they don't want gay males leading young boys. It's smart. I admire them for that stand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the issues with having any values. Someone without those values wants you to bend to their values.

The Boy Scouts is VERY upfront with its values. If they are not something that you can live by ... join another organization!

I agree with you on all counts.

1. Bigotry is, in fact, a value.
2. Not having that value, I would, in fact, prefer that the BSA bent to my values.
3. The Boy Scouts have, indeed, been VERY upfront about this and other values.
4. Since it's not a value that I can live with or want my child to learn, I will join another organization.

Look at that! Complete agreement!

Boy, it's REALLY a stretch to try to say that Boy Scouts' values are lacking. You aren't doing "atheists" any favors.

Is it really a stretch? This is an organization thst spent a century practicing overt homophobia. It is only now, slowly and against the wishes of much of its membership, trying to disengage from THAT bigotry. They may promote some fine values but let's not act like they aren't profoundly lacking in some respects. Even the BSA has (finally) acknowledged that fact.

It's not "homophobia" to say that they don't want gay males leading young boys. It's smart. I admire them for that stand.

Smart in what way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hypocrite of the year award ... I don't want him hanging around with kids that weren't raised to be sensitive to others but also don't want him hanging around with a bunch of dorks.

Exactly.