Brown $68K vs. UMich (in-state) $28K

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in the District Mon-Thurs and our main residence is in Metro Detroit. Daughter likes UMich but believes too many students from her h.s. matriculate so it ends up being h.s. 2.0. She plans to specifically target Brown and would attend UMich if rejected. But if she's accepted to both, is Brown worth the extra $120K? I'm on the fence.

UM is huge; she would probably never need to see anybody from HS if she didn't want to. IMO I'd pick UM over Brown; no way is Brown worth the extra cash.

I grew up in Bloomfield Hills, Mich. and went to Northwestern. 100 per year from my high school went to U of M; easily 500 a year within a 10 mile radius of my house. Acting like you can avoid everyone from high school at the state flagship is a lie. Good luck reinventing yourself when everyone still hangs with everyone from home and everyone joins the same frats and sororities. It's doable, obviously, just not all that realistic. You're going to bump into kids from high school on a daily basis.

I belive there is great similarity between the UM and UNC Chapel Hill, where I went to school. About 60-70 kids from my high school class (in Charlotte)went to Chapel Hill (perhaps more), and "easily 500 a year within a 10 mile radius." There were large numbers of students from a few other parts of North Carolina that had similar numbers/situations. I was very hesitant about going to Chapel Hill for similar reasons as the OP, but that was definitely not my experience.

I'm sure there were people who only hung out with people from high school, but that was very, very much the exception.

OP, I think the true question you are asking is: is it better for my child to go to a small and highly elite school (where there is likely to be much more coddling, a different academic environment, etc.) or a large elite state institution that will offer a myriad of choices but where s/he will have to be a strong self-advocate and seek out opportunities within a larger system. (Things may have changed in the last 15+ years, but I had a friend who was at Duke when I was at Chapel Hill. The difference was kind of stunning...it was normal for Duke students to get extensions, turn papers in very late, etc. She had friends at a lot of elite private schools/ivs, and she said it was all normal for them. At Chapel Hill, that was simply not allowed; my peers and I would never have done those things...and certainly not with any regularity. Contextually, we were both had GPAs that put us at the top of our respective classes.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:92% chance she'll be rejected so you won't have to worry. Probably closer to 99% once you account for recruited athletes, URMs, and hooked trust fund kids.

+1

[Anonymous]

Michigan is a good school calm down everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

If you are full pay on the calculator then you must be able to afford it. So, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in the District Mon-Thurs and our main residence is in Metro Detroit. Daughter likes UMich but believes too many students from her h.s. matriculate so it ends up being h.s. 2.0. She plans to specifically target Brown and would attend UMich if rejected. But if she's accepted to both, is Brown worth the extra $120K? I'm on the fence.

UM is huge; she would probably never need to see anybody from HS if she didn't want to. IMO I'd pick UM over Brown; no way is Brown worth the extra cash.

I grew up in Bloomfield Hills, Mich. and went to Northwestern. 100 per year from my high school went to U of M; easily 500 a year within a 10 mile radius of my house. Acting like you can avoid everyone from high school at the state flagship is a lie. Good luck reinventing yourself when everyone still hangs with everyone from home and everyone joins the same frats and sororities. It's doable, obviously, just not all that realistic. You're going to bump into kids from high school on a daily basis.

I belive there is great similarity between the UM and UNC Chapel Hill, where I went to school. About 60-70 kids from my high school class (in Charlotte)went to Chapel Hill (perhaps more), and "easily 500 a year within a 10 mile radius." There were large numbers of students from a few other parts of North Carolina that had similar numbers/situations. I was very hesitant about going to Chapel Hill for similar reasons as the OP, but that was definitely not my experience.

I'm sure there were people who only hung out with people from high school, but that was very, very much the exception.

OP, I think the true question you are asking is: is it better for my child to go to a small and highly elite school (where there is likely to be much more coddling, a different academic environment, etc.) or a large elite state institution that will offer a myriad of choices but where s/he will have to be a strong self-advocate and seek out opportunities within a larger system. (Things may have changed in the last 15+ years, but I had a friend who was at Duke when I was at Chapel Hill. The difference was kind of stunning...it was normal for Duke students to get extensions, turn papers in very late, etc. She had friends at a lot of elite private schools/ivs, and she said it was all normal for them. At Chapel Hill, that was simply not allowed; my peers and I would never have done those things...and certainly not with any regularity. Contextually, we were both had GPAs that put us at the top of our respective classes.)

I think these are generally good questions-- along with the question of what else would you do with the money (i.e., is it your next car/vacation or your 401k?)-- but Brown also requires a good deal of self-advocacy and seeking out opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work in the District Mon-Thurs and our main residence is in Metro Detroit. Daughter likes UMich but believes too many students from her h.s. matriculate so it ends up being h.s. 2.0. She plans to specifically target Brown and would attend UMich if rejected. But if she's accepted to both, is Brown worth the extra $120K? I'm on the fence.

Targeting Brown in those circumstances sounds the most random thing ever. UMich is a great school. And if she wants to go full-pay to another state, there's plenty of better options.

[Anonymous]

I won't let my kids attend college in-state. I think college is one of the few chances you get in life to reinvent yourself free from established circles. I've heard Stephen Colbert talk about how he was raised in S.C. and used college at Northwestern as a chance to be who he REALLY wanted to be.

All of that said, unless grandpa makes a timely $500,000-$1M donation, wishful thinking to assume 8% acceptance rate Brown will be on the table.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in the District Mon-Thurs and our main residence is in Metro Detroit. Daughter likes UMich but believes too many students from her h.s. matriculate so it ends up being h.s. 2.0. She plans to specifically target Brown and would attend UMich if rejected. But if she's accepted to both, is Brown worth the extra $120K? I'm on the fence.

Targeting Brown in those circumstances sounds the most random thing ever. UMich is a great school. And if she wants to go full-pay to another state, there's plenty of better options.

Brown is the 'hippest' college in the nation amongst smart teenagers. OP's daughter is hardly alone is finding it alluring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I won't let my kids attend college in-state. I think college is one of the few chances you get in life to reinvent yourself free from established circles. I've heard Stephen Colbert talk about how he was raised in S.C. and used college at Northwestern as a chance to be who he REALLY wanted to be.

All of that said, unless grandpa makes a timely $500,000-$1M donation, wishful thinking to assume 8% acceptance rate Brown will be on the table.

No credible university sells a spot for that. You may start thinking 10x at least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't let my kids attend college in-state. I think college is one of the few chances you get in life to reinvent yourself free from established circles. I've heard Stephen Colbert talk about how he was raised in S.C. and used college at Northwestern as a chance to be who he REALLY wanted to be.

All of that said, unless grandpa makes a timely $500,000-$1M donation, wishful thinking to assume 8% acceptance rate Brown will be on the table.

No credible university sells a spot for that. You may start thinking 10x at least.

You're naive. It's not $10M. Kushners donated $2M to Harvard when Jared was a senior in high school. Duke is notorious for selling spots.

[Anonymous]

While the number is more like $2M than $10M, it depends on the kid's record, what department and so on..

[Anonymous]

I'm a couple of decades out-of-date, but I chose to go to Stanford over UM in-state (got into both Residential College where my sister went and Honors College). Both my siblings went to UM. My brother got an engineering degree there and went on to do patent law at Harvard.

Of state schools, Michigan is one that will definitely give you a top-notch education if you work for it (it's also possible to slack there if you want). And as my sister says, it carries the clout if you shine there whereas a place like Stanford carries clout even for the lowest performers.

For me, though, going to a small, top-ranked private was still the right option. Something my Dad, who was a little skeptical of Stanford to begin with, was very adamant about when I graduated. The classes and research opportunities are a cut above, and it's worth it if you take advantage of them. For me, having always been at the top of my class, it was also good to be in a community of people who had similar experiences and to have to really struggle with the material. In my STEM PhD program, it was clear to me that I was better-prepared than any of the other students...except, notably, the ones from Brown who seemed to have similar prep. Also, the alumni network *is* better at a top-ranked private.

That said, Brown is a pretty different choice than an HYPS. It doesn't quite have the name recognition or research opportunities. But it provides a very specific college experience. If you can afford it, it's worth checking out to see if it's an actual fit for your DD vs. a cool-seeming place to apply (it certainly was when I was in HS).

At the end of the day, though, UM is still a great option, and I seriously considered it. It can be HS 2.0 if you want it to be, as it was for my brother who continued to live with his HS friends for all 4 years. Or it can be a place to find yourself anew as it was for my sister who maintained some HS friendships (which, having felt homesick for the first time in CA is kind of nice) but mostly did her own thing.

[Anonymous]

I have a kid at Brown and find the whole bit about students getting lost without guidance to be wildly overblown.

Do you know who gets into Brown today? Kids that don't get into HYPMS but get in pretty much everywhere else they apply. Which means they have 1550 SATs, and unweighted 4.0s, and have demonstrated some kind of sustained commitment to an academic or extracurricular pursuit that sets them apart from the 1550/4.0 kids that don't get into Brown.

These kids are highly motivated and accomplished. And now, suddenly, they're going to go off the rails because they have a choice of any course they want instead of having to take some introductory geology course that fulfills their science core requirement? Our family's experience has been that Brown is a great environment for students, because the students have affirmatively opted in to every single class they are taking and are not just checking off a core requirement box.

[Anonymous]

I would let me kid go to just about any univeristy OTHER than Brown. Brown is the 'safe place' and 'microaggression' capital of higher ed. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you know who gets into Brown today? Kids that don't get into HYPMS but get in pretty much everywhere else they apply. Which means they have 1550 SATs, and unweighted 4.0s, and have demonstrated some kind of sustained commitment to an academic or extracurricular pursuit that sets them apart from the 1550/4.0 kids that don't get into Brown.

Nailed it. The days of elite colleges having unique "vibes" is so out of date. UChicago used to be quirky and quanty; the only thing quirky about UChicago are their brochures and essay questions trying to cling to the atmosphere of yore. Any differences in the elites these days are marketing and nostalgia.