MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a basic misunderstanding among many PPs where they assume it is okay to expose a Jewish child to an evangelical environment. Proselytizing is extremely offensive to Jews. Jews have spent centuries being forced to convert under the threat of torture and any attempt to coerce Jews to worship Jesus is considered repugnant. It is not a matter of exposing the kids to a different faith, it is clearly an attempt to convert them. It is also not the same as a Christian kid going to a Jewish camp because Jews don't proselytize. This is just so highly offensive of the MIL to do this.

And there is a basic misunderstanding about Christianity. There are a zillion different branches and sects. From Unitarians & Quakers to Westboro baptist church. You can't paint them all with the same brush. Mainstream WASPs don't proselytize, talk about being "saved" or do much at bible camp but give kids a place to play safely once swim team is over for the summer, have a snack, maybe sing a few songs and (this is the real motivation) give SAHMs a break for a few hours. My redneck deep southern in-laws on the other hand? Yikes. Whole different mindset. If in-laws are WASP-y then this is a minor deal and it's doubtful kids will get much religion at all. If the are rednecks to the right of Southern Bapitist-- that's an issue.

Honestly, if DH married a Jewish woman and agreed to have Jewish kids, I'm assuming his parents are of the WASP variety. And that they know they can't manage the kids 24/7 and were looking for a safe, affordable breather. Plus don't know enough about current kids programs in the area to choose something else. ("What are we going to do with the grandkids all day? Of look, the church bulletin says that there is VBS that week...") OP-- in this case, VBS is probably very harmless. But if it's an issue, get on the Internet and find (and pay for) another 1/2 day camp. Or offer to pay a teen in your ILs neighborhood to take the kids to the pool for a while each morning.

It's a stretch to assume this is a mild version of Christianity. Obviously, the MIL has a problem with the kids being Jewish and is trying to give them a taste of Christianity. It's possible she has no idea how offensive this is but you don't send Jewish kids to a place that prays to Jesus. If the MIL wants to send them to camp, she can find a secular one (or a Jewish one, and not the Messianic Jews, either).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where does DH stand in this debate, OP?

Also, I get that Judiasm passes through the mother, but I'd be more sympathetic if you had titled your post OUR children and not MY children. In a mixed religion family, it is fair for both spouses to want kids to understand something of their religious identity. Even if they are being "raised" in one religion.

This is such nonsense and so is the comment by the PP who said the children are half Christian. It's not a mixed religion family. The children are JEWISH.

You mean according to the mother and her religion. Thats where it ends. Don't you see? It is not so black and white to others. Despite the mothers ideas and faith, the children's family is half Christian.

Which half is it, the top half or the bottom half? Or is it the left half or the right half? No, the children's family is Jewish. There is no gray area here.

The father's half.

He is christian, and his parents (the grandparents), and all their siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, etc etc.

[Anonymous]

The saying to "pick and choose your battles" also comes to mind here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a basic misunderstanding among many PPs where they assume it is okay to expose a Jewish child to an evangelical environment. Proselytizing is extremely offensive to Jews. Jews have spent centuries being forced to convert under the threat of torture and any attempt to coerce Jews to worship Jesus is considered repugnant. It is not a matter of exposing the kids to a different faith, it is clearly an attempt to convert them. It is also not the same as a Christian kid going to a Jewish camp because Jews don't proselytize. This is just so highly offensive of the MIL to do this.

And there is a basic misunderstanding about Christianity. There are a zillion different branches and sects. From Unitarians & Quakers to Westboro baptist church. You can't paint them all with the same brush. Mainstream WASPs don't proselytize, talk about being "saved" or do much at bible camp but give kids a place to play safely once swim team is over for the summer, have a snack, maybe sing a few songs and (this is the real motivation) give SAHMs a break for a few hours. My redneck deep southern in-laws on the other hand? Yikes. Whole different mindset. If in-laws are WASP-y then this is a minor deal and it's doubtful kids will get much religion at all. If the are rednecks to the right of Southern Bapitist-- that's an issue.

Honestly, if DH married a Jewish woman and agreed to have Jewish kids, I'm assuming his parents are of the WASP variety. And that they know they can't manage the kids 24/7 and were looking for a safe, affordable breather. Plus don't know enough about current kids programs in the area to choose something else. ("What are we going to do with the grandkids all day? Of look, the church bulletin says that there is VBS that week...") OP-- in this case, VBS is probably very harmless. But if it's an issue, get on the Internet and find (and pay for) another 1/2 day camp. Or offer to pay a teen in your ILs neighborhood to take the kids to the pool for a while each morning.

It's a stretch to assume this is a mild version of Christianity. Obviously, the MIL has a problem with the kids being Jewish and is trying to give them a taste of Christianity. It's possible she has no idea how offensive this is but you don't send Jewish kids to a place that prays to Jesus. If the MIL wants to send them to camp, she can find a secular one (or a Jewish one, and not the Messianic Jews, either).

I think OP is absolutely right to have concerns about this. I also think that it is probably unfair to assume that MIL's goal is evangelism. It's quite likely that she thought it was a fun way to prevent boredom and help her Grandchildren make friends. Taking care of kids all day is a lot.

OP could you find something else for them to do? And pay for it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where does DH stand in this debate, OP?

Also, I get that Judiasm passes through the mother, but I'd be more sympathetic if you had titled your post OUR children and not MY children. In a mixed religion family, it is fair for both spouses to want kids to understand something of their religious identity. Even if they are being "raised" in one religion.

This is such nonsense and so is the comment by the PP who said the children are half Christian. It's not a mixed religion family. The children are JEWISH.

You mean according to the mother and her religion. Thats where it ends. Don't you see? It is not so black and white to others. Despite the mothers ideas and faith, the children's family is half Christian.

Which half is it, the top half or the bottom half? Or is it the left half or the right half? No, the children's family is Jewish. There is no gray area here.

The father's half.

He is christian, and his parents (the grandparents), and all their siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, etc etc.

The father has agreed to raise the children Jewish. The rest of the family does not get a say in this. Christianity is not an ethnicity, its a choice and he chose not to raise his children in it.

Similarly the rest of the family does not get a say in things such as education and other life choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where does DH stand in this debate, OP?

Also, I get that Judiasm passes through the mother, but I'd be more sympathetic if you had titled your post OUR children and not MY children. In a mixed religion family, it is fair for both spouses to want kids to understand something of their religious identity. Even if they are being "raised" in one religion.

This is such nonsense and so is the comment by the PP who said the children are half Christian. It's not a mixed religion family. The children are JEWISH.

You mean according to the mother and her religion. Thats where it ends. Don't you see? It is not so black and white to others. Despite the mothers ideas and faith, the children's family is half Christian.

Which half is it, the top half or the bottom half? Or is it the left half or the right half? No, the children's family is Jewish. There is no gray area here.

The father's half.

He is christian, and his parents (the grandparents), and all their siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, etc etc.

And maybe only his parents are christian because they converted and the rest of the family could be muslim or buddhist. You have no clue.

[Anonymous]

You are going away for a whole week. Count your blessings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where does DH stand in this debate, OP?

Also, I get that Judiasm passes through the mother, but I'd be more sympathetic if you had titled your post OUR children and not MY children. In a mixed religion family, it is fair for both spouses to want kids to understand something of their religious identity. Even if they are being "raised" in one religion.

This is such nonsense and so is the comment by the PP who said the children are half Christian. It's not a mixed religion family. The children are JEWISH.

You mean according to the mother and her religion. Thats where it ends. Don't you see? It is not so black and white to others. Despite the mothers ideas and faith, the children's family is half Christian.

Which half is it, the top half or the bottom half? Or is it the left half or the right half? No, the children's family is Jewish. There is no gray area here.

The father's half.

He is christian, and his parents (the grandparents), and all their siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, etc etc.

The children are 100% Jewish. There is no half this or half that. The grandparents do not get to decide who the children worship over vacation. It doesn't work that way and you are ignorant to think that it does. Go talk to your minister about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are going away for a whole week. Count your blessings.

Only if they're in Hebrew.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where does DH stand in this debate, OP?

Also, I get that Judiasm passes through the mother, but I'd be more sympathetic if you had titled your post OUR children and not MY children. In a mixed religion family, it is fair for both spouses to want kids to understand something of their religious identity. Even if they are being "raised" in one religion.

This is such nonsense and so is the comment by the PP who said the children are half Christian. It's not a mixed religion family. The children are JEWISH.

You mean according to the mother and her religion. Thats where it ends. Don't you see? It is not so black and white to others. Despite the mothers ideas and faith, the children's family is half Christian.

Which half is it, the top half or the bottom half? Or is it the left half or the right half? No, the children's family is Jewish. There is no gray area here.

The father's half.

He is christian, and his parents (the grandparents), and all their siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, etc etc.

And maybe only his parents are christian because they converted and the rest of the family could be muslim or buddhist. You have no clue.

+1

Where does OP say that her DH is Christian?! He might even be an atheist for all you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious how many of you MIL supporting posters would be cool with Muslim inlaws surprise signing up their Jewish grandkids for a week of Koran camp at a time when it will hugely impact their parents to find other arrangements.

I'd write it off to some education about cultural heritage. I am with my kids the entire rest of the year. They aren't going to be Muslim or Jewish or Christian just because they had a week of Koran camp.

I'd brief my kids ahead of time that they were going to camp at Grandma's church/temple/mosque and they would get learn about Grandma's religion. I'd make sure they know that Grandma believes differently than we believe, but the people at her church/temple/mosque are nice people anyway. Then I would go on my anniversary trip and have a great time. When I got back, I would make sure that I talked to the kids about what they learned and camp and debriefed them on any nastiness.

After that there would be no more summer stays at Grandma's house, ever again. Never. Because she is being fucking obnoxious and she knows it. I wouldn't even throw down with her over it. It just would never, ever happen again. "I am so sorry. The kids can't visit this summer. They're signed up for 6 weeks of Jewish overnight camp, and we are SO busy the rest of the summer. Maybe we can all visit in the fall. " Rinse, lather, repeat.

[Anonymous]

It's one thing to provide some cultural education, but these half-day bible schools are usually offered free of charge to drum up business for the church. And it is a business. The kids are going to come home with bags of novelties that feature a cross and words of scripture. The only purpose of that is to teach them how to be Christian, not to teach them about Christianity. You will find a few Christian kids at a Jewish camp but you will never find Jewish kids at a Christian camp. It doesn't work in that direction.

[Anonymous]

For me, it would depend on the type of Christian church. Methodist, Catholic, Episcopalian Unity, UU, I would be fine with. Southern Baptist.... Hell no.

[Anonymous]

The problem is that there is a good chance the children will be told they are going to hell because they don't believe in Jesus. That is not cultural education, that is coercion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's one thing to provide some cultural education, but these half-day bible schools are usually offered free of charge to drum up business for the church. And it is a business. The kids are going to come home with bags of novelties that feature a cross and words of scripture. The only purpose of that is to teach them how to be Christian, not to teach them about Christianity. You will find a few Christian kids at a Jewish camp but you will never find Jewish kids at a Christian camp. It doesn't work in that direction.

I did Catholic vacation bible school as a kid. And Episopalian and Methodist for that matter when my uber-Catholic mother needed a break. And was never told that I needed to be saved, prosthelitized to, given a goody bag, or anything else I would have a problem with exposing my agnostic kids to. It really depends on the church. Would I send my kids to my ILs southern baptist bible camp. No way, no how. Plus MILs motivation matters. Conversion (not ok) or respite childcare (still upsetting to mom but more understandable and easier to forgive)?

Plus what does DH say?

Lots of missing pieces.