TC Williams or private?

[Anonymous]

As an ACPS parent, I try to be supportive, but I'm sick of the school leaders trying to blow smoke up the community's arse.

The press releases claims 331 students from TC Williams are college bound, then offers a list that purports to show where kids will be going to college. Add up all those numbers and it would total +770 kids...

Either the 331 number is wrong, or this list shows college acceptances, not college attendance. Which would mean that a small number of impressive kids are being counted multiple times for every place where they were accepted.

VDOE's data from Fall showed a senior class of 753 at TC Williams. If only 331 of those seniors are going on to pursue any post-HS education at either a 2 or 4 year college, then TC Williams deserves every bit of its poor reputation. What about the other 422 seniors? Dropouts? Flipping burgers next year?


I am ashamed at the poor results my school district achieves, despite the ridiculously high levels of spending. Yet all our leadership seems to care about is tearing down school buildings to build shiny brand new ones, without addressing the continuing failures to actually educate kids.

[Anonymous]

That's because building schools is easier than building up a solid academic program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an ACPS parent, I try to be supportive, but I'm sick of the school leaders trying to blow smoke up the community's arse.

The press releases claims 331 students from TC Williams are college bound, then offers a list that purports to show where kids will be going to college. Add up all those numbers and it would total +770 kids...

Either the 331 number is wrong, or this list shows college acceptances, not college attendance. Which would mean that a small number of impressive kids are being counted multiple times for every place where they were accepted.

VDOE's data from Fall showed a senior class of 753 at TC Williams. If only 331 of those seniors are going on to pursue any post-HS education at either a 2 or 4 year college, then TC Williams deserves every bit of its poor reputation. What about the other 422 seniors? Dropouts? Flipping burgers next year?

I am ashamed at the poor results my school district achieves, despite the ridiculously high levels of spending. Yet all our leadership seems to care about is tearing down school buildings to build shiny brand new ones, without addressing the continuing failures to actually educate kids.

+100. ACPS and City Council must think Alexandrian's are easily fooled but vast numbers of City residents see through their smoke screen that ACPS is a good school system by any accounting. For decades, Alexandria City School Board and City Council powers that be said they'd get it together and look were they left we residents: with a 1.5 Billion ACPS Capitol Improvement Program for build and repair of many schools and objectivity, with one of the lowest quality public school systems in Virginia (see VDOE, the objective Virginia agency responsible for school assessments and ratings so folks can judge for their children).

We need an independent audit to find out just where our Alexandria taxpayer money went over the last 20 years in ACPS. The Council and ACPS have a fiduciary duty to we taxpayers. We're not talking peanuts here.

Thank you for your post pp. Truth reigns eternal to most of us and the truth is clear about ACPS. Let's see if our ethical City Council and ACPS school board start anew by putting a greater proportion of money to academics and modest buildings rather than to all the great numbers of sponsored peripheral activities the ACPS School Board and Superintendent insists are needed for "whole student education". Athletics, drama, bands, etc, while popular, isn't their job. Education of math, reading, writing, science, history is so these kids can go out and make something of themselves.

Money doesn't grow on Trees, City Council and Alexandria City School Board. Be more fiduciary responsible! The U.S. economy, state and local economy is fragile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does every post about ACPS end result in such nasty, bitter comments? It is exhausting.

The schools are far from perfect, but my children have had good experiences in their years in ACPS.

They are both at TC now, and I fully expect them to be able to do whatever they want to do when they graduate. They might not be able to get into particular colleges because of grades or selectivity or the arbitrariness of the application process; we may not be able to afford a particular college because we fall in the gray area of not qualifying for financial aid, but not being able to write a big check easily; but in the end, I think they will be well positioned to do whatever they want to do. They have good teachers, challenging classes, and interesting extracurricular activities.

Agreed! It is exhausting. No school is perfect - private or public. I send my kids to ACPS and I'm shocked by the rude comments made to myself and my kids regarding their schools from people who do not send their kids to ACPS. It is appalling. I wish people would just respect each other's decisions. I have a feeling conversations turn nasty due to insecurities and people feeling they need to justify their choices.

It is just weird how many anti-ACPS haters there on this forum. Truly bizarre. I do not understand why someone takes the time to loathe something in an online forum unless they have direct personal experience, which is almost never the case. Is it the same people?

In 2014, 62% went to a 4-year college and 25% went to a 2-year with 2% going to trade school, which I think is great considering the demographics of the student body. 89% of the students are furthering their education post-graduation and most are going to 4-year college. Like a PP said, NOVA is a great inexpensive option for families. Of those going to four-year, many are going to VA public universities, which is also not surprising given the demographics of the school.

http://www.acps.k12.va.us/news2014/nr2014061602.php

This is what I found in a quick search--there is maybe other, more recent numbers.

[Anonymous]

It is just weird how many anti-ACPS haters there on this forum. Truly bizarre. I do not understand why someone takes the time to loathe something in an online forum unless they have direct personal experience, which is almost never the case. Is it the same people?

In 2014, 62% went to a 4-year college and 25% went to a 2-year with 2% going to trade school, which I think is great considering the demographics of the student body. 89% of the students are furthering their education post-graduation and most are going to 4-year college. Like a PP said, NOVA is a great inexpensive option for families. Of those going to four-year, many are going to VA public universities, which is also not surprising given the demographics of the school.

http://www.acps.k12.va.us/news2014/nr2014061602.php

This is what I found in a quick search--there is maybe other, more recent numbers.

This is an anonymous forum and as such has value for forthright opinions on ACPS. Our City makes it very difficult to speak up in pubic forum on the issues (which you refer to as "hate") brought up here. Indeed, more and more people within ACPS seem to be speaking up (like the mom a couple of posts ago). Secondly, there are those whose kid go or went to ACPS and then there are some who live in Alexandria City whose kids don't go to ACPS, yet by being taxpayers feel every right to chime in. Public information on ACPS isn't hard to come by. Many City residents are fed up with the recurrent poor academic standing of ACPS which the bulk of taxpayer money goes to support. There are growing needs in Alexandria not just the school system. This makes people irritable that ACPS has lagged so far behind for so long, so once again must be given greater monies even as other important infrastructure needs addressing.

It is good for ACPS and the City to hear both the good and the bad from City residents. Three minutes at a public forum doesn't begin to pull away the layers of problems ACPS has, nor will Council nor ACPS School Board ever admit to many of them. An example is stale, engrained ACPS and City employees who get to stay on due to fear of firing/layoffs/whatever, yet who cost both the City and ACPS and we Taxpayers excessive amounts in both salaries as well as benefits/pension City contribution not to mention subtract from system performance. Such isn't just an ACPS issue, but also a City employment issue and one that must be publicly addressed.

This may not be nice to hear for our City but neither is living and supporting ACPS either personally or through taxes for years without substantial academic rank improvement and without required fiduciary duty to both GF and CIP needs. Just where did all that money go or not go?

[Anonymous]

We live in a wonderful, noisy democracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI, ACPS published it's class of 2016 "decision day" list of colleges and universities. Link below. 331 students headed to college. Since you mentioned UVA - 31 from the class of 2016 are headed there. TC students are also headed to Princeton, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell, Vanderbilt, Emory, UC Berkley. Lots going to other Virginia schools too (e.g., 50 to Va Tech, 16 to Radford).

http://www.acpsk12.org/news/?p=2666

This year's college list isn't really bad, but it's not anywhere near as good as any recent year's list. No Harvard, no Yale, no UPenn, no Chicago, no MIT, not one single service academy (right near the Pentagon -- NONE? No West Point or Annapolis or Colo Springs or New London or King's Point -- not even one kid?), no Duke, etc etc. Only one each for Cornell, Stanford, Emory, and so forth. Colleges that picked up one or two TC seniors every year seem to have moved to zero. This is a very, truly bad result for TC this year. Not a confidence-builder for any parent that looks carefully at the list and compares it to the list for any recent year. One reason might be the SAT performance -- 2d lowest scores in the last decade. The school board had better be ready to deliver an explanation to the parents and voters, because performance has really plummeted, in just one year.

ACPS must focus on academics above all. The Capital Improvement Plan over the next 15 years on new ACPS builds should reflect this focus with school basics, not all the fluff. Buildings don't educate, teachers and a organized admin do. Get rid of ACPS entrenchment and get on with ACPS academic improvement.

Huh? Capital improvement and a focus on academics are not mutually exclusive. We need space for kids, which means we need buildings. And we need improvements to existing spaces that are well past need for repairs. As a student or teacher or administrator, how can you "focus on academics" if your classroom is a closet or your school is closed because of HVAC issues or flooding? Having adequate in which to teach and learn is important to academic success. Learning environment matters.

The college list seems fine to me. As someone posted above, these the schools chosen on decision day - it gives you no insight as to where students were accepted and chose not to go (or what schools they applied to for that matter). It also tells you nothing about where any given TC student in the future might apply and be accepted. And by the way, going private doesn't guarantee admission to any of the schools you list either - just my friends who spent 40K a year on private school whose kid is headed to VA Tech with 50 kids from TC.

1. It most certainly does tell you where the kids got in. No one, not one TC student, got into Yale and turned it down for NoVa. Not one. Top colleges typically meet financial need, or come very close. Going to a top college is no more net-expensive than going to Longwood.

2. The kid at a higher-ranked private that winds up at VT is in the lower portion of the class. A TC kid that is lucky enough to get into VT is in the top 15%. Completely different target-ranges.

TC is just lost on college admissions. They cater to the appearance of serving the absolute bottom cohort.

When comparing TC with other higher performing schools in Arlington, it seems there are roughly the same admits to VT and UVA. Is there data that shows the bottom 25% of students at a top private are the same as the top 85% of students at TC?

[Anonymous]

This is an anonymous forum and as such has value for forthright opinions on ACPS. Our City makes it very difficult to speak up in pubic forum on the issues (which you refer to as "hate") brought up here. Indeed, more and more people within ACPS seem to be speaking up (like the mom a couple of posts ago). Secondly, there are those whose kid go or went to ACPS and then there are some who live in Alexandria City whose kids don't go to ACPS, yet by being taxpayers feel every right to chime in. Public information on ACPS isn't hard to come by. Many City residents are fed up with the recurrent poor academic standing of ACPS which the bulk of taxpayer money goes to support. There are growing needs in Alexandria not just the school system. This makes people irritable that ACPS has lagged so far behind for so long, so once again must be given greater monies even as other important infrastructure needs addressing.

It is good for ACPS and the City to hear both the good and the bad from City residents. Three minutes at a public forum doesn't begin to pull away the layers of problems ACPS has, nor will Council nor ACPS School Board ever admit to many of them. An example is stale, engrained ACPS and City employees who get to stay on due to fear of firing/layoffs/whatever, yet who cost both the City and ACPS and we Taxpayers excessive amounts in both salaries as well as benefits/pension City contribution not to mention subtract from system performance. Such isn't just an ACPS issue, but also a City employment issue and one that must be publicly addressed.

This may not be nice to hear for our City but neither is living and supporting ACPS either personally or through taxes for years without substantial academic rank improvement and without required fiduciary duty to both GF and CIP needs. Just where did all that money go or not go?

Long time resident in Alexandria City. Thank you for taking time to write this post, I couldn't have said it better myself.

As Alexandria City prides itself on "inclusivity" and "non-discrimination", I urge it to embrace positions which may run counter to majority views.

[Anonymous]

As an Alexandria parent, there is clearly a good sized cohort of strong students at TCW. Barnard, Bates, Berkeley, Cornell, Dartmouth, Emory, Morehouse, Penn, Princeton, Stanford, USC, Vanderbilt - plus the 31 going to UVA. In fact, the number of strong students is bigger than many of the DC area privates, especially the religious schools (compare to Bishop Ireton). For students with strong academics considering private high schools, it is a viable option.

On the other hand, it is a very tough/bad place to be for students getting C's in general education courses, regardless of ethnicity. For them, NVCC or no college is pretty much the only path.

I would agree on the criticism of TCW and ACPS for weaker students. But, for better off families with stronger kids, it is fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: We live in a wonderful, noisy democracy.

+1 well said!

[Anonymous]

Class of 2017 graduation report is, again, revealing.

Some kids going to strong state schools: UVA(18), W&M (7), VTech (15), JMU (15), GMU (14), UMW (5), VCU (25), CNU (2), VMI.

Some kids going to selective private and out of state flagships: Cornell, Princeton (2), Duke (3), Rice, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Georgetown (2), NYU, Naval Academy, West Point (3),Tufts, Amherst, Barnard, Wesleyan, Smith (2), Lehigh, GWU, Northeastern, Bama, Auburn, Georgia, Minnesota, Penn State, Ohio State, West Virginia (2), South Carolina (2).

Given the high poverty rate at TC, and the guaranteed transfer options available in Virginia, it's not surprising that 139 are headed to NOVA.

What disappoints me as an ACPS parent is that the press release speaks only of the college bound. That's only 354 out of 720 kids. What about the other half of the class? I do not think that college is the right place for every 18 year old kid. But shouldn't ACPS be reporting on the future plans of the other graduates? If the vast majority of those kids will be enlisting in the military, entering apprenticeships, or taking jobs that will lead to living wages as a result of vocational training they received while in high school, I would be thrilled to see that data and satisfied that the $17,000 per pupil per year is being well spent by ACPS. But if more than half of TC Williams' graduating class will spend next year flipping burgers, cutting grass, playing video games while living in mom's basement, day laboring, raising kids on welfare, drug dealing, etc. then ACPS is failing miserably. ACPS leaders must start gathering data and reporting outcomes for the non-college bound graduates if they want to assure us (as they always do) that they are doing a great job considering their demographics challenges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Class of 2017 graduation report is, again, revealing.

Some kids going to strong state schools: UVA(18), W&M (7), VTech (15), JMU (15), GMU (14), UMW (5), VCU (25), CNU (2), VMI.

Some kids going to selective private and out of state flagships: Cornell, Princeton (2), Duke (3), Rice, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Georgetown (2), NYU, Naval Academy, West Point (3),Tufts, Amherst, Barnard, Wesleyan, Smith (2), Lehigh, GWU, Northeastern, Bama, Auburn, Georgia, Minnesota, Penn State, Ohio State, West Virginia (2), South Carolina (2).

Given the high poverty rate at TC, and the guaranteed transfer options available in Virginia, it's not surprising that 139 are headed to NOVA.

What disappoints me as an ACPS parent is that the press release speaks only of the college bound. That's only 354 out of 720 kids. What about the other half of the class? I do not think that college is the right place for every 18 year old kid. But shouldn't ACPS be reporting on the future plans of the other graduates? If the vast majority of those kids will be enlisting in the military, entering apprenticeships, or taking jobs that will lead to living wages as a result of vocational training they received while in high school, I would be thrilled to see that data and satisfied that the $17,000 per pupil per year is being well spent by ACPS. But if more than half of TC Williams' graduating class will spend next year flipping burgers, cutting grass, playing video games while living in mom's basement, day laboring, raising kids on welfare, drug dealing, etc. then ACPS is failing miserably. ACPS leaders must start gathering data and reporting outcomes for the non-college bound graduates if they want to assure us (as they always do) that they are doing a great job considering their demographics challenges.

Can you provide a link? For some reason, I can't find this.

[Anonymous]

Found it! http://www.acpsk12.org/news/?p=6181

[Anonymous]

http://www.acpsk12.org/news/?p=6182

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Class of 2017 graduation report is, again, revealing.

Some kids going to strong state schools: UVA(18), W&M (7), VTech (15), JMU (15), GMU (14), UMW (5), VCU (25), CNU (2), VMI.

Some kids going to selective private and out of state flagships: Cornell, Princeton (2), Duke (3), Rice, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Georgetown (2), NYU, Naval Academy, West Point (3),Tufts, Amherst, Barnard, Wesleyan, Smith (2), Lehigh, GWU, Northeastern, Bama, Auburn, Georgia, Minnesota, Penn State, Ohio State, West Virginia (2), South Carolina (2).

Given the high poverty rate at TC, and the guaranteed transfer options available in Virginia, it's not surprising that 139 are headed to NOVA.

What disappoints me as an ACPS parent is that the press release speaks only of the college bound. That's only 354 out of 720 kids. What about the other half of the class? I do not think that college is the right place for every 18 year old kid. But shouldn't ACPS be reporting on the future plans of the other graduates? If the vast majority of those kids will be enlisting in the military, entering apprenticeships, or taking jobs that will lead to living wages as a result of vocational training they received while in high school, I would be thrilled to see that data and satisfied that the $17,000 per pupil per year is being well spent by ACPS. But if more than half of TC Williams' graduating class will spend next year flipping burgers, cutting grass, playing video games while living in mom's basement, day laboring, raising kids on welfare, drug dealing, etc. then ACPS is failing miserably. ACPS leaders must start gathering data and reporting outcomes for the non-college bound graduates if they want to assure us (as they always do) that they are doing a great job considering their demographics challenges.

You answered your own question. This is what the other half of the kids will be doing.