Another article about the magnet programs in Washington Post

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the fact that 40% of the program are National Merit Scholars and the average SAT score of the program is 2250 means nothing if kids choose to go to UMD because it has the program they want or is most financially manageable to them.

The middle class/upper middle-class kids would still likely have SAT scores of 2250 and be NMS at their home schools. The lower-income students would still be at the magnet. So, I'm not saying it means nothing, I'm saying it's a wash.

Do you really think that UMD is these kids dream school? (I'm not saying anything bad about the school). If Blair really created amazing students we would see more students going to top schools (both because they would get in and because of merit scholarships).

"Top" schools (meaning those in the top 30 of the US News & World Report rankings) do not give merit aid. Families with a household income of >$180K will not qualify for much if any need-based aid, but cannot afford to pay $65K+/year at a "top" school. IOW, many Blair magnet students are very qualified, but their parents cannot afford to send them to e.g. Princeton, MIT, Harvard, and the like.

My son is a Blair junior and has close to perfect PSATs and a 4.6 weighted GPA. In the 70s, we would have been looking for "top" schools for him. But in 2016, that is not an option. Our HHI of $210K tanks us for need-based aid. So off to U.MD or the like he will go. And he will do great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS: We want to hire more Hispanic teachers.
DCUM: OMG! MCPS is going to hire unqualified teachers just because they're Hispanic!

MCPS: We want to get more Hispanic and black kids to apply to the magnet programs.
DCUM: OMG! MCPS is going to let unqualified Hispanic and black kids into the magnet programs just because they're black or Hispanic!

What is the common factor here? DCUM's assumption that black/Hispanic = unqualified.

No way. Currenlty they're trying to recruit the best teachers and the best students regardless of race. When you try to recruit a specific race, you're going to look less at talent and more at race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS: We want to hire more Hispanic teachers.
DCUM: OMG! MCPS is going to hire unqualified teachers just because they're Hispanic!

MCPS: We want to get more Hispanic and black kids to apply to the magnet programs.
DCUM: OMG! MCPS is going to let unqualified Hispanic and black kids into the magnet programs just because they're black or Hispanic!

What is the common factor here? DCUM's assumption that black/Hispanic = unqualified.

No way. Currenlty they're trying to recruit the best teachers and the best students regardless of race. When you try to recruit a specific race, you're going to look less at talent and more at race.

Well, let's start with the fact that Hispanic is not a race, it's an ethnicity. People who are Hispanic can be of any race.

Then let's go on to -- maybe they're trying to recruit the best teachers and the best students regardless of race/ethnicity, but the fact is that they're not succeeding.

And let's finish with -- race/ethnicity can actually be part of the qualification, for teachers. In general, it's good for kids to see that people like them can become teachers (or doctors, or plumbers, or whatever). However, if you disagree with this, we can disregard it and still have plenty left.

So, why do you assume that increasing black/Hispanic participation means increasing the participation of unqualified people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But you asked, ".... FARMs and/or black and/or Hispanic.

They way YOU framed the question doesn't tie any of those groups together so you are asking do I belong to anyone of the three. Did you mean to ask if I'm black or Hispanic in addition to qualifying for FARMS?!?!

No, I meant to ask: Do you belong to one or more of the following groups?

1. people who qualify for FARMS
2. people who are black
3. people who are Hispanic

Hence the and/or.

[Anonymous]

Increase minority awareness of programs Yes

Decrease standards so more minorities/farms participate No

Pretty sure this is a majority view

Reading between the lines the ultimate goal is to increase minority/farms participation in the program because otherwise it is implied there is something wrong with the program (it's racist)

So until you have more minority/farms participation the program will be scrutinized

Its the flack TJ (Thomas Jefferson magnet in Fairfax County) has been going through for a decade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But you asked, ".... FARMs and/or black and/or Hispanic.

They way YOU framed the question doesn't tie any of those groups together so you are asking do I belong to anyone of the three. Did you mean to ask if I'm black or Hispanic in addition to qualifying for FARMS?!?!

No, I meant to ask: Do you belong to one or more of the following groups?

1. people who qualify for FARMS
2. people who are black
3. people who are Hispanic

Hence the and/or.

Again yes. Did you learn anything here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS: We want to hire more Hispanic teachers.
DCUM: OMG! MCPS is going to hire unqualified teachers just because they're Hispanic!

MCPS: We want to get more Hispanic and black kids to apply to the magnet programs.
DCUM: OMG! MCPS is going to let unqualified Hispanic and black kids into the magnet programs just because they're black or Hispanic!

What is the common factor here? DCUM's assumption that black/Hispanic = unqualified.

No way. Currenlty they're trying to recruit the best teachers and the best students regardless of race. When you try to recruit a specific race, you're going to look less at talent and more at race.

Well, let's start with the fact that Hispanic is not a race, it's an ethnicity. People who are Hispanic can be of any race.

Then let's go on to -- maybe they're trying to recruit the best teachers and the best students regardless of race/ethnicity, but the fact is that they're not succeeding.

And let's finish with -- race/ethnicity can actually be part of the qualification, for teachers. In general, it's good for kids to see that people like them can become teachers (or doctors, or plumbers, or whatever). However, if you disagree with this, we can disregard it and still have plenty left.

So, why do you assume that increasing black/Hispanic participation means increasing the participation of unqualified people?

Not pp but your last point is too difficult to wrap your arms around. I've yet to meet a Salvadorean teacher in MCPS but let's say you have a Cuban teacher in a classroom of Salvadorean kids. Is that beneficial? Are they the same ethnicity, not really.... Hispanic doesn't mean much in this context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not pp but your last point is too difficult to wrap your arms around. I've yet to meet a Salvadorean teacher in MCPS but let's say you have a Cuban teacher in a classroom of Salvadorean kids. Is that beneficial? Are they the same ethnicity, not really.... Hispanic doesn't mean much in this context.

It's certainly true that "Hispanic" is not a monolith. And maybe a kid whose family is from El Salvador would consider a teacher whose family is from Cuba to be just as "them, not us" as a teacher whose family is from Norway (or whatever). But maybe the kid wouldn't.

And then there is the question of the opinion of white people. Certainly the majority opinion on DCUM (i.e., affluent non-Hispanic white people) seems to be that all Hispanic people are alike (and equally unqualified for academics).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue is systemic. There is gap in education attainment between groups of population. Minority groups have limited access to preschool resources, and when they start school African American and Hispanics already lagging behind. Minority groups also less likely to engage in the summer programs. So, the possible solution may be within the reach. Why not use the existing resources like extended year program? Also, offering free preschool program to minorities may help close the gap. Free preschool is a long shot, but extended school year can be promissing. Once performance in the whole population group is lifted up, the magnet population is going to be more represenative as well. How fixing/adjusting magnet selection would help the more fundamental problem of persistent gap in education attainment? Magnet program is not a problem, the general education program is.

Its called head start for low income.

[Anonymous]

Maybe people do not apply or enroll their kids as MCPS doesn't make it easy. We are trying to transfer from private to public and I went to register my child last week and they refused enrollment and told me to come back over the summer. If I cannot even enroll my child, how on earth would I figure out this or other programs? So, if you have to apply months in advanced and they don't even let you register your child, how on earth do they get considered for any special programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the fact that 40% of the program are National Merit Scholars and the average SAT score of the program is 2250 means nothing if kids choose to go to UMD because it has the program they want or is most financially manageable to them.

The middle class/upper middle-class kids would still likely have SAT scores of 2250 and be NMS at their home schools. The lower-income students would still be at the magnet. So, I'm not saying it means nothing, I'm saying it's a wash.

Do you really think that UMD is these kids dream school? (I'm not saying anything bad about the school). If Blair really created amazing students we would see more students going to top schools (both because they would get in and because of merit scholarships).

"Top" schools (meaning those in the top 30 of the US News & World Report rankings) do not give merit aid. Families with a household income of >$180K will not qualify for much if any need-based aid, but cannot afford to pay $65K+/year at a "top" school. IOW, many Blair magnet students are very qualified, but their parents cannot afford to send them to e.g. Princeton, MIT, Harvard, and the like.

My son is a Blair junior and has close to perfect PSATs and a 4.6 weighted GPA. In the 70s, we would have been looking for "top" schools for him. But in 2016, that is not an option. Our HHI of $210K tanks us for need-based aid. So off to U.MD or the like he will go. And he will do great.

UMD is a great school. I don't get the viewpoint on this forum that it's Ivy or bust. I have no intention of pushing my kids into an Ivy. I don't think Ivies are automatic paths to success either and I've seen evidence of that in my peer group. A good state school education can take you far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the fact that 40% of the program are National Merit Scholars and the average SAT score of the program is 2250 means nothing if kids choose to go to UMD because it has the program they want or is most financially manageable to them.

The middle class/upper middle-class kids would still likely have SAT scores of 2250 and be NMS at their home schools. The lower-income students would still be at the magnet. So, I'm not saying it means nothing, I'm saying it's a wash.

Do you really think that UMD is these kids dream school? (I'm not saying anything bad about the school). If Blair really created amazing students we would see more students going to top schools (both because they would get in and because of merit scholarships).

"Top" schools (meaning those in the top 30 of the US News & World Report rankings) do not give merit aid. Families with a household income of >$180K will not qualify for much if any need-based aid, but cannot afford to pay $65K+/year at a "top" school. IOW, many Blair magnet students are very qualified, but their parents cannot afford to send them to e.g. Princeton, MIT, Harvard, and the like.

My son is a Blair junior and has close to perfect PSATs and a 4.6 weighted GPA. In the 70s, we would have been looking for "top" schools for him. But in 2016, that is not an option. Our HHI of $210K tanks us for need-based aid. So off to U.MD or the like he will go. And he will do great.

UMD is a great school. I don't get the viewpoint on this forum that it's Ivy or bust. I have no intention of pushing my kids into an Ivy. I don't think Ivies are automatic paths to success either and I've seen evidence of that in my peer group. A good state school education can take you far.

Ivy's in this area have always been a big deal but they've gotten very unaffordable to many now. I think it depends on the career field you choose. A state school was more appropriate for what I choose as it had the major I wanted, but for my sibling who became a doctor, being in a ivy's does make a difference. I care where my doctor was trained. No one cares where I went for my profession. I'd be thrilled if my children go to UMD. We did the prepaid plan, so we just have to help with living expenses and then graduate school. My goal is for them not to have any loans, like my parents did for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not pp but your last point is too difficult to wrap your arms around. I've yet to meet a Salvadorean teacher in MCPS but let's say you have a Cuban teacher in a classroom of Salvadorean kids. Is that beneficial? Are they the same ethnicity, not really.... Hispanic doesn't mean much in this context.

It's certainly true that "Hispanic" is not a monolith. And maybe a kid whose family is from El Salvador would consider a teacher whose family is from Cuba to be just as "them, not us" as a teacher whose family is from Norway (or whatever).[/b] But maybe the kid wouldn't[b].

And then there is the question of the opinion of white people. Certainly the majority opinion on DCUM (i.e., affluent non-Hispanic white people) seems to be that all Hispanic people are alike (and equally unqualified for academics).

This the key point! How can you know what the kid feels. What if 3 groups of kids feel differently. I don't want to wade in those murky waters personally. But what I do know is that if you want a teacher who is relatable to a certain group of kids in MCPS, simply inserting "Hispanic" is meaningless. You are going to have to start getting very specific about what is being sought after.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This the key point! How can you know what the kid feels. What if 3 groups of kids feel differently. I don't want to wade in those murky waters personally. But what I do know is that if you want a teacher who is relatable to a certain group of kids in MCPS, simply inserting "Hispanic" is meaningless. You are going to have to start getting very specific about what is being sought after.

How do you know this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This the key point! How can you know what the kid feels. What if 3 groups of kids feel differently. I don't want to wade in those murky waters personally. But what I do know is that if you want a teacher who is relatable to a certain group of kids in MCPS, simply inserting "Hispanic" is meaningless. You are going to have to start getting very specific about what is being sought after.

How do you know this?

Its self evident.. I believe a teacher of any background can relate to kids. If you are not like me and believe that a kid has to be of the same background as a group to relate to them then simply inserting a "Hispanic" is going to be hit or miss for reasons we've already discussed.