Yoga is Hindu. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, OP. I'm Hindu, I practice yoga, my parents practice yoga, etc.... Our view on this so-called "cultural appropriation" crap is that if it's helping people to become healthier, happier, and more aware of the world around them, we don't see what the problem is.

Then you're being irresponsible and your refusal to acknowledge the cultural appropriation because you think it's somehow incompatible with being secular, or whatever (it's not, FYI) just shows that you're not actually aware of what cultural appropriation is.

It's a sliding slope. I don't think Western yoga practitioners are evil by any means, and you can benefit from a religious practice...as long as you know what you're practicing.

Do you think Native Americans aren't aware that modern "shamanism" is blatantly, and grossly inaccurately, appropriated from Native American religious practices? Do you think practicing Jewish people aren't aware that the Judaism mystical tradition of the Kabbalah isn't watered down, diluted, and repackaged in New Age-friendly bullshit?

I am not going to go, "It's okay for Ariana Grande to prattle about her Kabbalah mastery because fuck Judaism, at least fake Kabbalah is making Ariana Grande happy!"

In Hinduism, appropriation has actually taken a pretty sinister/evil turn just when you look at recent history. The swastika being appropriated by Nazis is a big one.

So I'm sorry you think this isn't a big deal, but I disagree.

I just want to make a comment on shamanism. It is extremely ancient and Native American shamanism bears deep ties to Siberian shamanism and also near eastern shamanism that was later subsumed into the tradition of Indo-European pre-socratic philosophy. You may not be aware of this, but ancient Europeans practiced shamanism very deeply. They are not separate. They are deeply and anciently connected.

[Anonymous]

By the way, I am listening at the moment to Sarmila Roy's rendition of Svetasvatara Upanishad and I would recommend it to anybody. Incredibly beautiful. It is on iTunes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, OP. I'm Hindu, I practice yoga, my parents practice yoga, etc.... Our view on this so-called "cultural appropriation" crap is that if it's helping people to become healthier, happier, and more aware of the world around them, we don't see what the problem is.

Then you're being irresponsible and your refusal to acknowledge the cultural appropriation because you think it's somehow incompatible with being secular, or whatever (it's not, FYI) just shows that you're not actually aware of what cultural appropriation is.

It's a sliding slope. I don't think Western yoga practitioners are evil by any means, and you can benefit from a religious practice...as long as you know what you're practicing.

Do you think Native Americans aren't aware that modern "shamanism" is blatantly, and grossly inaccurately, appropriated from Native American religious practices? Do you think practicing Jewish people aren't aware that the Judaism mystical tradition of the Kabbalah isn't watered down, diluted, and repackaged in New Age-friendly bullshit?

I am not going to go, "It's okay for Ariana Grande to prattle about her Kabbalah mastery because fuck Judaism, at least fake Kabbalah is making Ariana Grande happy!"

In Hinduism, appropriation has actually taken a pretty sinister/evil turn just when you look at recent history. The swastika being appropriated by Nazis is a big one.

So I'm sorry you think this isn't a big deal, but I disagree.

You really need to take a chill pill, OP. Hey, why not try some yoga?!

Ha. It's clear the OP doesn't practice yoga.

[Anonymous]

I just want to make a comment on shamanism. It is extremely ancient and Native American shamanism bears deep ties to Siberian shamanism and also near eastern shamanism that was later subsumed into the tradition of Indo-European pre-socratic philosophy. You may not be aware of this, but ancient Europeans practiced shamanism very deeply. They are not separate. They are deeply and anciently connected.

OP here, thank you for pointing this out to me. I think you do make a valid point, and you're right I wasn't aware of Siberian shamanic practices, though I do wonder if we're defining shamanism differently. In a sense, all mystic practices are deeply connected - we could argue that Hindu shamans, Christian shamans, Muslim shamans, etc exist, because the practices of shamanism exist in every religion.. Every religion has its tradition of nature spirits, ancestor spirits, spirit guides, trance, and so on. But if you look up known shamanic healers who advertise their alternative therapy services at least here in the States, they tend to couch their work in terms of either North American or South American Native language, and sometimes even dress the part. So I think that was what I was referring to, but otherwise yes I agree with you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I'll just add, THANK YOU for pointing out how far Western yoga practitioners (not all, but quite a few) will say they believe in "Yoga" and "Vedanta" but deliberately avoid using "Hinduism" because of its polytheist aspects.

Yet they are perfectly okay using the word "Buddhism". A lot of this comes from the mistaken belief that Buddhism is atheist. It's not. Buddhism also has a very polytheistic pantheon, which gets dismissed because who wants to acknowledge Kuan Yin, Tara, and Manjushri?

Thank you. I love that you home in on the verity that buddhism is not atheistic. How I hate that assertion! How can you posit a reality of pure consciousness and then say 'oh but it is atheism.' pssht not thinking!

Yeah, it needed to be said!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most Hindus don't give any thought to whether their religion is polytheistic, monotheistic, pagan, or whatever. The division exists for those outside the faith looking in and trying to understand or relate.

Exactly.

How is this possible?

So then there's one god but many lesser gods?

What about Lakshmi, the goddess of wealth? the goddess for Diwali
Do they believe she's real?

Yes, there is only one God, who is formless (nada brahma), with the vibration of OM. As mentioned above, this God is Ishvara, Brahman, etc. and is complete with no duality. Everything in existence comes out of this one God.

Do you have children? Are they lesser than you? That should answer your question about whether the other "gods" that Hindus pray to are lesser. If you have more than one child, are they all the same or do they have unique personalities and unique skills? Do you relate to them differently in different situations? That should answer why there are so many deities. Similar in concept to Catholic saints I think.

Yes, Lakshmi is real. Is Jesus real? There were no records of him during his lifetime. What then makes him real or not real? Who gives power to who?

I am an atheist. I certainly don't believe any deity has control over my life. Furthermore, I don't believe there is enough information to prove Jesus existed.

Your reasoning is off. No, I don't believe I'm more important than my two children. However, no one is honoring me during some festival (Diwali). And saints in the Catholic faith are indeed at a higher level than the average Joe. So how is it that these many gods are just as important as the main god?

And how different is this system from ancient Greek and Roman beliefs? All the gods were related yet none were as important as Zeus, for example. I see no difference between the ancient Greek system and Hinduism.

I think these belief systems are simplistic.

[Anonymous]

i love yoga; it has excellent health benefits. i don't give a shit about the religious aspects. overthinking things can suck the joy out of life.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I deliberately stayed out of the "Is Lakshmi real?" debate and am not going to get sucked in. That isn't the point of this thread; it's a completely different debate about the veracity of a religion in general.

I also think it's time I bowed out. I have voiced my thoughts as well as I can manage, and I'm quite happy we got to page 6 of this thread without a real flame war or going off on a tangent. At this point I've said all I had to say and anything further would just be belaboring the point. People will still act in accordance with their own desires no matter what, and that is what we call "lila" after all!

Have a nice evening everyone!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, we had this issue with my mom, yoga, and Reiki. Both yoga and Reiki really helped with some health issues she had. However, once she learned that they are essentially worshiping or appealing to other gods, she stopped.

I don't get this kind of response.

If you have your believe (let's say, Christianity), how can you end up worshiping other gods? Do you believe those other gods also exist? If you believe in the divinity of Jesus, do you also believe in the divinity of gods in other religions? How can you end up worshiping or appealing to them, if there's only one real god (Jesus, Allah, whatever you believe in)?

You don't have to believe that other gods actually exist in order for Jews and Christians to violate the first commandment "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (BTW, there is an interesting piece on this commandment from the atheist perspective here: http://atheism.about.com/od/tencommandments/a/commandment01.htm)

For example, read this letter below, (Full disclosure: I have excerpted it a bit):

From: T. R. in Belgium

Dear Rabbi,

Could you please enlighten me on the controversy surrounding wearing wigs made of human hair from India, and also is it permissible to continue wearing one. Thank you in advance, T. R.

Dear T.R.

The Rabbis who oppose the use of Indian-hair wigs are not just splitting hairs. The root of the problem is that the hair from India seems to come from idolatrous ceremonies. Worshipers grow their hair in honor of a certain god, pledging to cut the hair at the temple of the god as a sacrificial thank-offering when their prayer is answered. ...

The hair is then auctioned to wigmakers, earning the temple a hair-raising 5.6 million dollars. ...

The problem is that the Torah not only forbids idolatry itself, but also prohibits deriving benefit from any accessory, decoration or sacrifice to idol worship. Primarily, such a sacrifice is forbidden only when it is similar to the Jewish Temple offerings of meat, flour, oil, wine and water. However, when this object of idolatrous sacrifice (tikrovet avoda zara) is whats normally offered, and is cut or broken in honor of the god, it is also forbidden to derive benefit from it in any way. Furthermore, the sacrificed object can never be nullified, even if its been changed or altered by some process, and even if its been indiscernibly mixed with some other permitted material.

http://ohr.edu/1698

It makes no sense. You believe those other gods exist, or they don't. If they don't exist, they have no power, no chance of influencing you. The Hindu gods don't affect you any more than Bigfoot affects you, or the Purple People Eater. If you believe in your "true" deity, then you believe others are also made up human concepts. You don't have any other gods ahead of the "real" god, because those other gods don't exist.

You are missing the point. For Jews, Muslims, and Christians at least, our God expects us to worship only Him. We are not supposed to do anything that even looks like worshiping other gods. It's not that we fear any actual influence from Krishna, Ogun, or Huitzilopotchli.

So then every person of faith should be living a 100% monastic lifestyle. Hell, you can't even enjoy snow, because you could be worshiping the abominable snowman. Or watch movies, or read any other books, or gain any kind of influence/pleasure from anything else, ever.

You sound unhinged.

Its the same thing - saying you can't enjoy things like yoga, because you think it'll deter from your own religion. THAT is unhinged. And some seriously insecure faith.

Most adult humans can distinguish between the fruits of religious rituals and the byproducts of other activities. This seems to be a struggle for you.

[Anonymous]

I understood OP's first post to say that yoga classes at gyms, the Y, Corepower, etc., are cultural appropriation and improperly using religious practices. In her subsequent posts, I think she continued to say that.

It is that reasoning that led to the yoga for disabled students to be cancelled. If yoga is a form of Hindu worship, then it shouldn't be offered to disabled students as a physical fitness class. But physical yoga isn't Hindu. It's just physical movement.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/23/university-yoga-class-canceled-because-of-oppression-cultural-genocide/

[Anonymous]

I;m Hindu. I don't do yoga much because I don't have the time or the strong interest right now. But I give y'all permission to do yoga. Enjoy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You sound like hard work, OP. Be grateful you have a friend.

+1

She's the type that makes people roll their eyes when she walks in the room.

[Anonymous]

OP if you come back from your flounce will you let us know how you came to be Hindu?.What is your cultural/ethnic background?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP if you come back from your flounce will you let us know how you came to be Hindu?.What is your cultural/ethnic background?

Sigh. That wasn't a "flounce". Let me show you what a flounce looks like: "Screw you guys, I hate you all so I'm taking my toys and going home!"

This is what not being a troll or a "has-to-always-have-the-last-word" person looks like: "I've said my piece, I'm not going to continue pushing my point, I'm happy we had 6 pages of discussion without a flame war."

People with reading comprehension will note that the second example characterizes my last post, not the first.

I'm also only answering your question, PP, because you asked how I came to be Hindu. I was born into it, I'm in my mid-twenties, I grew up in the US, and I'm ethnically Indian. Not that I think my ethnicity matters, as my second post on this thread indicates. I'm pretty curious why ethnicity matters so much to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like hard work, OP. Be grateful you have a friend.

+1

She's the type that makes people roll their eyes when she walks in the room.

OP sounds like the kind of person I would hide my yoga practice from. Because I don't feel the need to acknowledge or credit Hinduism or any of its deities to do my 30 minutes of daily yoga. How arrogant to say yogis shouldn't practice without crediting her religion. Pffft.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like hard work, OP. Be grateful you have a friend.

+1

She's the type that makes people roll their eyes when she walks in the room.

OP sounds like the kind of person I would hide my yoga practice from. Because I don't feel the need to acknowledge or credit Hinduism or any of its deities to do my 30 minutes of daily yoga. How arrogant to say yogis shouldn't practice without crediting her religion. Pffft.

Wooooow.