Ben Carson: Islamophobe of the Day

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't want a member of the Westboro Baptist Church to be President. Does that make me a bigot?

No. There's no issue if you object to a member of the WBC being elected. The same would be true if you were objecting to a candidate who was a member of the Salafi movement. You slip into ignorant bigotry by advancing the absurd proposition that no Christian, no Muslim or no Mormon should hold public office.

Just to clarify -- Ben Carson said he was fine with Muslims in the House and Senate, just not as President.

[Anonymous]

Ben Carson is advocating policies that are against the Constitution! He is a threat to the ideals and reality of the nation!

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has Carson even been paying attention? I been watching Fox News for the past six years and am pretty sure they've been reporting that we've had a Muslim as a President this entire time.

We certainly have. It's been one hell of a ride too!

We were told earlier in this thread that Muslims hate gays and hang them from cranes. That is a bit inconsistent with supporting gay marriage. appointing transgendered persons to high-level administrative positions, and appointing gay individuals to positions such as Secretary of the Army. I guess what you are saying is that Obama is about the worst observant Muslim in history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ben Carson is advocating policies that are against the Constitution! He is a threat to the ideals and reality of the nation!

Obama is much more of a threat.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
I am not able to decide whether you are just being stubborn or if you are just stunningly ignorant about some of the realities of Islam - or more specifically how some Muslims choose to interpret and practise their faith.

I have lived in the Middle East and still have consulting work there as well as other countries Muslim countries. If you seriously believe that all Muslims consider Islam boils down to the items you listed, you really are quite clueless. Islam as practised in Saudi Arabia is different than that in Malaysia. Islam as practised in Iran is different than that in Pakistan. It is quite amazing that you would make statements that a rudimentary degree of due diligence would show is not accurate. What version of Islam do you think ISIS is following? Why are the Sunni and Shia at each others throats and have been for centuries?

I did not say that it would be unacceptable to me to have a Muslim as president but as I explained any such individual would need to cross a higher hurdle before I would vote for him It is nothing to do with bigotry - it has to do with recognizing reality. For someone who professes to be informed about Islam I have to say your knowledge is either very limited or is entirely influenced by your political stance on issues.

You may have spent so much time in foreign countries that you have lost your ability to comprehend basic English. The five items I listed are the minimum of what all Muslims believe. It's the lowest common denominator. After that, everything diverges. Hence, we get the differences between versions of Islam that you describe. If you are not aware of that, you are really in no position to discuss the ignorance of others with regard to Islam.

Given that there are vast differences between the way in which Islam is practiced -- differences that you have just described -- why would you ever make generalizations about "Muslims"? Such generalizations can only be flawed given the variety of practices that exists.

The entire issue that we have been discussing is Ben Carson's statement that a Muslim should not be president because Islam is not compatible with the constitution. If you disagree with Carson, why are you arguing with me?

You have gone from saying we can't elect Muslims because they are extremists to saying that Muslims are all different. Which is it?

[Anonymous]

Carson just put the lives of all those who are around him in jeopardy. That was a dumb selfish thing to do. His wife and kids could be victims of retaliation. Hope this goes un noticed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And Carson is correct in that the Islamic faith is not consistent with the Constitution

How so? There is no "official" Islam. So, how are you able to make such a categorial statement? That is exactly what used to be said about Catholics because a Catholic would be subservient to the Pope. It was wrong about Catholics and is wrong about Muslims.

The Constitution was designed to limit the powers of Federal government in order to preserve freedom for the people. Please show me a country under Islamic rule that lives by that tenant.

Do you mean "tenet"?

[Anonymous]

Is Ben Carson a constitutional scholar or something? I thought he was a brain surgeon.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And Carson is correct in that the Islamic faith is not consistent with the Constitution

How so? There is no "official" Islam. So, how are you able to make such a categorial statement? That is exactly what used to be said about Catholics because a Catholic would be subservient to the Pope. It was wrong about Catholics and is wrong about Muslims.

It was wrong about that Roman Catholic president.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Carson just put the lives of all those who are around him in jeopardy. That was a dumb selfish thing to do. His wife and kids could be victims of retaliation. Hope this goes un noticed.

If that's the case that criticizing Muslims means putting one's life in jeopardy, then Carson is correct, isn't he?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am not able to decide whether you are just being stubborn or if you are just stunningly ignorant about some of the realities of Islam - or more specifically how some Muslims choose to interpret and practise their faith.

I have lived in the Middle East and still have consulting work there as well as other countries Muslim countries. If you seriously believe that all Muslims consider Islam boils down to the items you listed, you really are quite clueless. Islam as practised in Saudi Arabia is different than that in Malaysia. Islam as practised in Iran is different than that in Pakistan. It is quite amazing that you would make statements that a rudimentary degree of due diligence would show is not accurate. What version of Islam do you think ISIS is following? Why are the Sunni and Shia at each others throats and have been for centuries?

I did not say that it would be unacceptable to me to have a Muslim as president but as I explained any such individual would need to cross a higher hurdle before I would vote for him It is nothing to do with bigotry - it has to do with recognizing reality. For someone who professes to be informed about Islam I have to say your knowledge is either very limited or is entirely influenced by your political stance on issues.

You may have spent so much time in foreign countries that you have lost your ability to comprehend basic English. The five items I listed are the minimum of what all Muslims believe. It's the lowest common denominator. After that, everything diverges. Hence, we get the differences between versions of Islam that you describe. If you are not aware of that, you are really in no position to discuss the ignorance of others with regard to Islam.

Given that there are vast differences between the way in which Islam is practiced -- differences that you have just described -- why would you ever make generalizations about "Muslims"? Such generalizations can only be flawed given the variety of practices that exists.

The entire issue that we have been discussing is Ben Carson's statement that a Muslim should not be president because Islam is not compatible with the constitution. If you disagree with Carson, why are you arguing with me?

You have gone from saying we can't elect Muslims because they are extremists to saying that Muslims are all different. Which is it?

Nothing wrong with my comprehension of the English language .... despite your attempt to deflect with your rather simplistic reasoning.

My contention is that although Carson is wrong about the constitutionality of a Muslim being president, it would be understandable if people are wary of a Muslim becoming president given the inclination of many Muslims to bring their faith into how people should live their lives. Someone who has concerns about this is not necessarily bigoted or racist.

Why do you think many Muslim countries are theocracies? How many non-Muslim countries are theocracies?

Being a progressive is all well and good but you need to recognize certain realities. I see the very same lack of reality in your tirade in defense of the kid who went to school with a home made clock. Yes, a white Christian kid would not have drawn the same sort of reaction but how many young white kids or young black kids become suicide bombers?

[Anonymous]

what's disgusting is that many people would have said an AA shoudln't be president not long ago - ben carson is repeating an especially ugly part of history and breeding hate,

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Ben Carson does not believe a Muslim should be President, saying:

"I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that."

Asked if "Islam is consistent with the Constitution", Carson replied:

"No, I don't, I do not."

This goes against clear language in the US Constitution. Article VI states:

"No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

So, not only is Carson advocating a clearly bigoted position, but one that is unconstitutional.

...and yet so many jerky Americans probably agree with him. This will likely boost him in the polls...just as Trump's back peddling on his islamaphobia has hurt him.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Nothing wrong with my comprehension of the English language .... despite your attempt to deflect with your rather simplistic reasoning.

My contention is that although Carson is wrong about the constitutionality of a Muslim being president, it would be understandable if people are wary of a Muslim becoming president given the inclination of many Muslims to bring their faith into how people should live their lives. Someone who has concerns about this is not necessarily bigoted or racist.

Why do you think many Muslim countries are theocracies? How many non-Muslim countries are theocracies?

Being a progressive is all well and good but you need to recognize certain realities. I see the very same lack of reality in your tirade in defense of the kid who went to school with a home made clock. Yes, a white Christian kid would not have drawn the same sort of reaction but how many young white kids or young black kids become suicide bombers?

It appears that your prejudices have clouded your thinking. Many people of all faiths bring their faith into how people should live their lives. Indeed, two of the major issues of our day are gay rights and abortion. Faith plays a major role in the positions many take with regard to these issues. You continue to bring up what happens in other countries. But, should we judge American Christians by what happens in Uganda or Russia where Christianity has resulted in strident homophobia?

Clearly voters should judge candidates by the positions the candidates hold, regardless of whether those positions are derived from faith or otherwise. It makes no sense to judge all members of an entire religion when there are vast differences among those who practice the religion.

You asked about suicide bombings. I am not aware of a single suicide bombing in an American school. How many Muslim kids have conducted mass killings in schools within the US? How many white kids? Moreover, how many suicide bombings have been conducted without bombs? Remember, nobody involved believed this was a bomb. The entire reasoning behind the police interrogation which was clearly stated by the police is that Ahmed did not provide a "wider explanation". He kept saying the device was a clock.

But, why are you providing justifications for prejudice when you strongly deny having such prejudices? If you want to hold prejudices against Muslims and feel that you can justify those prejudices, that is your right. But why do you then get upset when called on it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:A Muslim candidate for President would be an American, born in America. Therefore, I'm not sure what it matters how Muslim rulers are treating non-Muslims in other countries. But, if treatment of minority religions in other countries is used to determine the eligibility for the office of President in the US, doesn't it pretty much rule out Jewish candidates? Shouldn't Bernie Sanders (who I personally love), be ruled out because Israel has never and probably will never have a Christian or Muslim Prime Minister?

I am still waiting for an example of rule by a Seventh Day Adventist so that we can determine Ben Carson's own eligibility. Carson questioned the compatibility of Islam with the Constitution while explicitly stating an unconstitutional position. Therefore, I'd say that by his own criteria, Carson in ineligible regardless of his religion.

jewishness is different because jewishness can refer to ethnicity and not religious practice.

an athiest jew is fine. a jew that's observant and behaves like schumer and liberman -no thanks.

Atheist Jew? Isn't that a bit of an oxyMORON?

no - it's like being an athiest anglo or athiest black or athiest asian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_atheists_and_agnostics

So a Jew is okay so long as he's not too Jewey?

Well I'll make an exception for Jewbacca