Spanish or French

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

French is the Official language in 29 countries. It is the first language for only 75M because in the majority of the other countries the population has a dialect as a first language and French as their "common" language. I.e all over West Africa for ex..

Plus, if you want to work for the UN, the 2 official languages are English and French. French is still required or at least an asset for jobs at the UN, World Bank, International dev NGOs, foreign diplomacy etc..

Aka a language as a first language.

PP here: I meant that the population of most of those 29 countries has a lot of different dialects (Wolof, Soninke, Bambara etc...) so the language that ends up being spoken by most people in the country is French. Which makes it de facto the most useful language to know if you go to such a country.

And no, there is a difference between a language and a dialect. The line is subject of debates between linguists and is certainly subjective, but when you have languages attached to certain ethnic groups, that have no written form, it is not a stretch to call them a dialect (although I wouldn't call Wolof a dialect for ex)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

French is the Official language in 29 countries. It is the first language for only 75M because in the majority of the other countries the population has a dialect as a first language and French as their "common" language. I.e all over West Africa for ex..

Plus, if you want to work for the UN, the 2 official languages are English and French. French is still required or at least an asset for jobs at the UN, World Bank, International dev NGOs, foreign diplomacy etc..

Aka a language as a first language.

PP here: I meant that the population of most of those 29 countries has a lot of different dialects (Wolof, Soninke, Bambara etc...) so the language that ends up being spoken by most people in the country is French. Which makes it de facto the most useful language to know if you go to such a country.

And no, there is a difference between a language and a dialect. The line is subject of debates between linguists and is certainly subjective, but when you have languages attached to certain ethnic groups, that have no written form, it is not a stretch to call them a dialect (although I wouldn't call Wolof a dialect for ex)

Not terribly sure about what you are trying to say that is relevant to this thread but, just in case: I fully agree that, for the average American, learning French makes more sense than learning Wolof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

PP here: I meant that the population of most of those 29 countries has a lot of different dialects (Wolof, Soninke, Bambara etc...) so the language that ends up being spoken by most people in the country is French. Which makes it de facto the most useful language to know if you go to such a country.

And no, there is a difference between a language and a dialect. The line is subject of debates between linguists and is certainly subjective, but when you have languages attached to certain ethnic groups, that have no written form, it is not a stretch to call them a dialect (although I wouldn't call Wolof a dialect for ex)

Wolof is a language -- as you say. Soninke is a language; what would it be a dialect of? Though there are presumably dialects of Soninke. Bambara is a language; what would it be a dialect of? Though there are presumably dialects of Bambara.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighbors speak Spanish. Not French...

THIS.

The most common foreign language used by native speakers in this area, and most of the United States, is Spanish. I don't just choose to use it - I HAVE to use it regularly. I had to speak Spanish on Friday and on Sunday. I cannot imagine a sitiuation requiring use of French to get by anywhere in the US except a resturant.

You shouldn't ever HAVE to speak Spanish in this country. While we don't have an official language, we have a dominant one, one that has been used overwhelmingly since our settlement.

+1

Spanish will only be needed for social service type jobs. French looks better for college. Plus the field trips are better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighbors speak Spanish. Not French...

THIS.

The most common foreign language used by native speakers in this area, and most of the United States, is Spanish. I don't just choose to use it - I HAVE to use it regularly. I had to speak Spanish on Friday and on Sunday. I cannot imagine a sitiuation requiring use of French to get by anywhere in the US except a resturant.

You shouldn't ever HAVE to speak Spanish in this country. While we don't have an official language, we have a dominant one, one that has been used overwhelmingly since our settlement.

+1

Spanish will only be needed for social service type jobs. French looks better for college. Plus the field trips are better.

Funny GOP ladies, you realize that Spanish is heavily spoken across all SES levels in the country's 4 most populated states (CA, TX, FL, NY), and that colleges are way more interested in the Latino and Spanish-speaking world than in the Francophonie, correct?

[Anonymous]

Be aware that at many schools--not all, but many--Spanish is seen as the easier class, and thus attracts kids who aren't as serious about school. Generalization, but one with truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would choose by which teacher has a better reputation. A bad teacher can set your child back in HS when the going gets tough. Spanish teachers are notorious for being pretty bad. They make it too fun and easy and don't properly teach the grammar.

Very much this!

+1

The kid will learn more with a better teacher, and that's more important!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

French is the Official language in 29 countries. It is the first language for only 75M because in the majority of the other countries the population has a dialect as a first language and French as their "common" language. I.e all over West Africa for ex..

Plus, if you want to work for the UN, the 2 official languages are English and French. French is still required or at least an asset for jobs at the UN, World Bank, International dev NGOs, foreign diplomacy etc..

Aka a language as a first language.

PP here: I meant that the population of most of those 29 countries has a lot of different dialects (Wolof, Soninke, Bambara etc...) so the language that ends up being spoken by most people in the country is French. Which makes it de facto the most useful language to know if you go to such a country.

And no, there is a difference between a language and a dialect. The line is subject of debates between linguists and is certainly subjective, but when you have languages attached to certain ethnic groups, that have no written form, it is not a stretch to call them a dialect (although I wouldn't call Wolof a dialect for ex)

Not terribly sure about what you are trying to say that is relevant to this thread but, just in case: I fully agree that, for the average American, learning French makes more sense than learning Wolof.

Oh my goodness you are thick: I am trying to say that saying only 75 M people speak French as their first language -meaning France/Quebec/Belgium/switzerland basically- is absurd. What matters is how many countries have French as official language or even as the common language. In West and North Africa given that each ethnic group tends to speak a different dialect/language, everybody learns French to be able to speak together as a nation (like English in India).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP here: I meant that the population of most of those 29 countries has a lot of different dialects (Wolof, Soninke, Bambara etc...) so the language that ends up being spoken by most people in the country is French. Which makes it de facto the most useful language to know if you go to such a country.

And no, there is a difference between a language and a dialect. The line is subject of debates between linguists and is certainly subjective, but when you have languages attached to certain ethnic groups, that have no written form, it is not a stretch to call them a dialect (although I wouldn't call Wolof a dialect for ex)

Wolof is a language -- as you say. Soninke is a language; what would it be a dialect of? Though there are presumably dialects of Soninke. Bambara is a language; what would it be a dialect of? Though there are presumably dialects of Bambara.

Again, the official line between a dialect and a language is complicated and even among linguists the classification is not clear cut. But to respond to your comments, Bambara could be considered a dialect of the Manding language cluster while Soninke is indeed a language with its own dialect.



An illsutration of the variety and why French ends up bieng the main language: Languages and dialects of Mali


Like many countries in Africa, Mali is a multilingual country, where several languages and dialects are spoken showing a sign of antique settlements, migrations, and a vast history where ethnic groups and tribes were mantained together.

From its people, Bambara are the biggest ethnic group with 33% of the population, Fulani with 10%, Senoufo around 9%, Songhay 7%, Malinke with 6%, Tuareg 5%, and Dogon the smallest faction with 4% of the population.

From the 50 languages in Mali, French is the official one and Bambara is the most extensively spoken. Overall, 13 of the native language of Mali have the legal status of national language.

Official language
?French (Standard)

National languages
?Bambara
?Bomu
?Tieyaxo Bozo
?Toro So Dogon
?Maasina Fulfulde
?Hasanya Arabic
?Mamara Senoufo
?Kita Maninkakan
?Soninke
?Koyraboro Senni Songhay
?Syenara Senoufo
?Tamasheq
?Xaasongaxango

Lingua francas
?Bambara
?French
?Fula
?Songhai

All languages and dialects of Mali

(language name, dialect, family group, total speakers)
?French, Indo-European, 9,000
?Hasanya, dialect Arabic, Afro-Asiatic / Semitic, 106,100
?Bambara or Bamanankan, dialect Manding, Niger-Congo / Mande, 2,700,000
?Bomu, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 102,000
?Tiéyaxo, dialect Bozo, Niger-Congo / Mande, 117,696
?Toro So, dialect Dogon, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 50,000
?Fulfulde, Maasina, dialect Fula, Niger-Congo / Atlantic, 911,200
?Maninkakan & Kita, dialect Manding, Niger-Congo / Mande, 600,000
?Mamara, dialect Senufo, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 737,802
?Syenara, dialect Senufo, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 136,500
?Koyraboro Senni, dialect Songhay, Nilo-Saharan, 400,000
?Soninke, Niger-Congo / Mande National, 700,000
?Tamasheq, dialect Tamashek, Afro-Asiatic / Berber, 250,000
?Xaasongaxango, Khassonke, dialect Manding, Niger-Congo / Mande, 120,000
?Bankagooma, Niger-Congo / Mande, 5,085
?Bobo Madaré, Niger-Congo / Mande, 18,400
?Hainyaxo, dialect Bozo, Niger-Congo / Mande, 117,696
?Jenaama, dialect Bozo, Niger-Congo / Mande, 100,000
?Tièma Cièwè, dialect Bozo, Niger-Congo / Mande, 2,500
?Bangeri Me, dialect Dogon, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 1,200
?Bondum Dom, dialect Dogon, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 24,700
?Dogul Dom, dialect Dogon, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 15,700
?Donno So, dialect Dogon, family Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 45,300
?Jamsay, dialect Dogon, family Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 130,000
?Kolum So, dialect Dogon, family Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 24,000
?Tene Kan, dialect Dogon, family Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 127,000
?Tomo Kan, dialect Dogon, family Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 132,800
?Toro Tegu, dialect Dogon, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 2,900
?Duungooma, Niger-Congo / Mande, 70,000
?Jahanka, Niger-Congo / Mande, 500
?Jalunga, Dyalonke, Niger-Congo / Mande, 9,000
?Jowulu, Niger-Congo / Mande, 10,000
?Jula, Dioula Manding, Niger-Congo, 50,000
?Kagoro Manding, Niger-Congo / Mande, 15,000
?Koromfé, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 100
?Maninkakan, dialect Manding, Niger-Congo / Mande, 100,000
?Marka, Niger-Congo / Mande, 25,000
?Mòoré, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 17,000
?Pana, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 2,800
?Pulaar, dialect Fula, Niger-Congo / Atlantic, 175,000
?Pular, dialect Fula, Niger-Congo / Atlantic, 50,000
?Sàmòmá, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 6 villages
?Sìcìté, dialect Senufo, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 4 villages
?Supyire, dialect Senufo, Niger-Congo / Volta-Congo, 364,000
?Humburi Senni, dialect Songhay, Nilo-Saharan, 15,000
?Koyra Chiini, dialect Songhay, Nilo-Saharan, 200,000
?Tadaksahak, dialect Songhay, Nilo-Saharan, 30,000
?Tamajaq, dialect Tamashek, Afro-Asiatic / Berber, 190,000
?Zarmaci, dialect Songhay, Nilo-Saharan, 2 villages

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think several PPs had the right idea: choose the one your child wants to take. Any language makes it easier to learn another one, and as someone else said, motivation makes it much easier to learn. (BTW for those who say a language can't be learned well past childhood, that's just wrong; I speak three languages other than English fluently, all of which I learned past college.) If your child truly has no preference, then go with the one with the better teacher.

You do, but that's the not the norm. Can you explain why most Americans over 70%- speak only one language? Whereas most Europeans over 80% can speak two languages? It's obvious, the schools start way too late with the second language. I don't know of anyone who became fluent in a language after taking in middle and high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think several PPs had the right idea: choose the one your child wants to take. Any language makes it easier to learn another one, and as someone else said, motivation makes it much easier to learn. (BTW for those who say a language can't be learned well past childhood, that's just wrong; I speak three languages other than English fluently, all of which I learned past college.) If your child truly has no preference, then go with the one with the better teacher.

You do, but that's the not the norm. Can you explain why most Americans over 70%- speak only one language? Whereas most Europeans over 80% can speak two languages? It's obvious, the schools start way too late with the second language. I don't know of anyone who became fluent in a language after taking in middle and high school.

Because people really use their second languages in Europe, so it is a higher priority. Imagine if neighboring states in America spoke different languages. I don't disagree that we should focus more on second language in America, but it will never be a huge priority if people don't feel that they need or would ever use a second language in their day to day life.