N. Arlington versus Vienna

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:



Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



I doubt it. Vienna is nice, but some people there exaggerate its walkability and downplay the typical commuting times.



The Town of Vienna (22180) is very walkable--all of it. If you have a Vienna address but live outside the town--in 22181 or 22182--it's not as walkable.

I don't see anyone on here saying that Vienna doesn't have long commuting times. In this case, the OP works in Oakton, so a commute from Vienna would not be a problem.



It's utter nonsense to claim that all of the Town of Vienna is "walkable," as that term is generally understood. The concentration of businesses along two long, parallel streets limits its walkability for many residents.

As understood by whom? You? And I suppose you work for Webster's?


What are the walk scores for a house a block off of Maple? 1/2 mile? 2 miles?

Many homes in the Town of Vienna have Walk Scores in the 10s and 20s.

Out of curiosity, I just checked our walk score. We live in Vienna and got an 81. We are close to many shops and we walk a lot more when the weather is nice.

I also live in the town of Vienna and love it here because we can walk to the farmers market, community center, library and we bike on the trail. Our walk score is 57. The only issue is that new construction is expensive.

Whether this is true or not, the poster who said all of the Town of Vienna was very walkable was wrong. Many homes in the Town of Vienna have Walk Scores in the 10s and 20s, which is not "very walkable" at all.

PP here: also, the walk score is a function of distance, not really factoring in roads suitability. Church street is very walkable. Crossing Church is trivial. Crossing Maple is harder.

Oh, c'mon.Crossing Maple is a lot easier than it is to cross roads near Tysons Corner, crossing N. Glebe near Ballston Mall, or crossing any street (you choose) in DC. There are cross cuts, and even a bird-sound alert for vision impaired people.

It's certainly easier to cross Maple than to cross major roads in Tysons. It is no easier to cross Maple than to cross a typical street in DC, much less walk along Maple. It is not that inviting a place to walk, and only a fraction of the homes in the Town of Vienna are within close enough distance of amenities that residents will regularly walk to them. That's one reason why so many cars are on the streets and the new houses are built with two and three-car garages. Of course, Maple Avenue/123 is also a huge commuter route, so you get the additional traffic heading in both directions. And, of course, the Vienna Metro is far enough away that most people in the Town who want to use it have to drive to get there.

That is similar to parts of North Arlington, but also very different from other parts of North Arlington where you really can live a car-free lifestyle if you are so inclined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's certainly easier to cross Maple than to cross major roads in Tysons. It is no easier to cross Maple than to cross a typical street in DC, much less walk along Maple. It is not that inviting a place to walk, and only a fraction of the homes in the Town of Vienna are within close enough distance of amenities that residents will regularly walk to them. That's one reason why so many cars are on the streets and the new houses are built with two and three-car garages. Of course, Maple Avenue/123 is also a huge commuter route, so you get the additional traffic heading in both directions. And, of course, the Vienna Metro is far enough away that most people in the Town who want to use it have to drive to get there.

That is similar to parts of North Arlington, but also very different from other parts of North Arlington where you really can live a car-free lifestyle if you are so inclined.

I live in NW Vienna; in town. I am less than a mile from Whole foods. I can not walk to Metro, but I can walk (1/8th a mile) to a bus stop that will take me to metro. There was six months where I was not allowed to drive (seizures), and I lived walking. Getting to work then took less than 1 hr: bus and metro.

[Anonymous]

It's certainly easier to cross Maple than to cross major roads in Tysons. It is no easier to cross Maple than to cross a typical street in DC, much less walk along Maple. It is not that inviting a place to walk,

There are a couple of blocks on Maple that are urban style without curbcuts. They are still less inviting than the best streets, because of the noise and pollution from the traffic on Rte123. Church Street, and the W&OD, and most side streets in Vienna are better.

and only a fraction of the homes in the Town of Vienna are within close enough distance of amenities that residents will regularly walk to them.

What fraction? There is a pocket in the far south of the Town that is too far (and awaits retail development in MetroWest to be walkable) and in the NE (walkable to Tysons) The fraction walkable to the center is probably close to half, if not more.

That's one reason why so many cars are on the streets and the new houses are built with two and three-car garages


Eh, people have cars in Fairfax county even when they can walk places. Plus of course people who commute from Vienna to Tysons mostly do so by car (maybe the improved bike routes to Tysons will change that a bit) And a lot of people there like to go shopping at Tysons, etc. Vienna is in the middle of a large suburban area, so its more autocentric than North Arlington, which is adjacent to DC. But its not because walking to Maple Avenue is so hard, AFAICT.

Of course, Maple Avenue/123 is also a huge commuter route, so you get the additional traffic heading in both directions. And, of course, the Vienna Metro is far enough away that most people in the Town who want to use it have to drive to get there.

The folks who can walk to it are precisely the people who can't easily walk to Maple. Of course it is also accessible by bus and by bicycle, but this is DCUM, so I will accept that anyplace you can't walk to you "have to drive to"

That is similar to parts of North Arlington, but also very different from other parts of North Arlington where you really can live a car-free lifestyle if you are so inclined.

It is easier to life a completely car free lifestyle in North Arlington than in Vienna. Though easier in Vienna than in most of Fairfax (or most of the USA) and harder in North Arlington than in DC. And most of the people actually living carfree in North Arlington are not living in SFHs, and most SFHs in N Arlington are in areas where living carfree is not much easier than it is in Vienna. There are a few SFHs close enough to the RB corridor urban villages to be almost as suitable for a cafree lifestyle as the multifamily housing - and they command a premium for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I live in NW Vienna; in town. I am less than a mile from Whole foods. I can not walk to Metro, but I can walk (1/8th a mile) to a bus stop that will take me to metro. There was six months where I was not allowed to drive (seizures), and I lived walking. Getting to work then took less than 1 hr: bus and metro.

Our sort does not ride the bus, doncha know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



I doubt it. Vienna is nice, but some people there exaggerate its walkability and downplay the typical commuting times.



The Town of Vienna (22180) is very walkable--all of it. If you have a Vienna address but live outside the town--in 22181 or 22182--it's not as walkable.

I don't see anyone on here saying that Vienna doesn't have long commuting times. In this case, the OP works in Oakton, so a commute from Vienna would not be a problem.



It's utter nonsense to claim that all of the Town of Vienna is "walkable," as that term is generally understood. The concentration of businesses along two long, parallel streets limits its walkability for many residents.

As understood by whom? You? And I suppose you work for Webster's?


What are the walk scores for a house a block off of Maple? 1/2 mile? 2 miles?



Many homes in the Town of Vienna have Walk Scores in the 10s and 20s.

Out of curiosity, I just checked our walk score. We live in Vienna and got an 81. We are close to many shops and we walk a lot more when the weather is nice.

I also live in the town of Vienna and love it here because we can walk to the farmers market, community center, library and we bike on the trail. Our walk score is 57. The only issue is that new construction is expensive.

Whether this is true or not, the poster who said all of the Town of Vienna was very walkable was wrong. Many homes in the Town of Vienna have Walk Scores in the 10s and 20s, which is not "very walkable" at all.

PP here: also, the walk score is a function of distance, not really factoring in roads suitability. Church street is very walkable. Crossing Church is trivial. Crossing Maple is harder.


Oh, c'mon.Crossing Maple is a lot easier than it is to cross roads near Tysons Corner, crossing N. Glebe near Ballston Mall, or crossing any street (you choose) in DC. There are cross cuts, and even a bird-sound alert for vision impaired people.



It's certainly easier to cross Maple than to cross major roads in Tysons. It is no easier to cross Maple than to cross a typical street in DC, much less walk along Maple. It is not that inviting a place to walk, and only a fraction of the homes in the Town of Vienna are within close enough distance of amenities that residents will regularly walk to them. That's one reason why so many cars are on the streets and the new houses are built with two and three-car garages. Of course, Maple Avenue/123 is also a huge commuter route, so you get the additional traffic heading in both directions. And, of course, the Vienna Metro is far enough away that most people in the Town who want to use it have to drive to get there.

That is similar to parts of North Arlington, but also very different from other parts of North Arlington where you really can live a car-free lifestyle if you are so inclined.

Guess you missed the part where the OP said they needed to be able to commute to Oakton. The OP needs to have a car. That's what this entire discussion has been about. Pay attention, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's certainly easier to cross Maple than to cross major roads in Tysons. It is no easier to cross Maple than to cross a typical street in DC, much less walk along Maple. It is not that inviting a place to walk,

There are a couple of blocks on Maple that are urban style without curbcuts. They are still less inviting than the best streets, because of the noise and pollution from the traffic on Rte123. Church Street, and the W&OD, and most side streets in Vienna are better.

and only a fraction of the homes in the Town of Vienna are within close enough distance of amenities that residents will regularly walk to them.

What fraction? There is a pocket in the far south of the Town that is too far (and awaits retail development in MetroWest to be walkable) and in the NE (walkable to Tysons) The fraction walkable to the center is probably close to half, if not more.

That's one reason why so many cars are on the streets and the new houses are built with two and three-car garages


Eh, people have cars in Fairfax county even when they can walk places. Plus of course people who commute from Vienna to Tysons mostly do so by car (maybe the improved bike routes to Tysons will change that a bit) And a lot of people there like to go shopping at Tysons, etc. Vienna is in the middle of a large suburban area, so its more autocentric than North Arlington, which is adjacent to DC. But its not because walking to Maple Avenue is so hard, AFAICT.

Of course, Maple Avenue/123 is also a huge commuter route, so you get the additional traffic heading in both directions. And, of course, the Vienna Metro is far enough away that most people in the Town who want to use it have to drive to get there.

The folks who can walk to it are precisely the people who can't easily walk to Maple. Of course it is also accessible by bus and by bicycle, but this is DCUM, so I will accept that anyplace you can't walk to you "have to drive to"

That is similar to parts of North Arlington, but also very different from other parts of North Arlington where you really can live a car-free lifestyle if you are so inclined.

It is easier to life a completely car free lifestyle in North Arlington than in Vienna. Though easier in Vienna than in most of Fairfax (or most of the USA) and harder in North Arlington than in DC. And most of the people actually living carfree in North Arlington are not living in SFHs, and most SFHs in N Arlington are in areas where living carfree is not much easier than it is in Vienna. There are a few SFHs close enough to the RB corridor urban villages to be almost as suitable for a cafree lifestyle as the multifamily housing - and they command a premium for that.

You enjoy arguing, but at the end of the day Vienna just isn't that walkable. The silliness of your responses is underscored by the reference to the NE part of the Town of Vienna being "walkable to Tysons." Good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



I doubt it. Vienna is nice, but some people there exaggerate its walkability and downplay the typical commuting times.



The Town of Vienna (22180) is very walkable--all of it. If you have a Vienna address but live outside the town--in 22181 or 22182--it's not as walkable.

I don't see anyone on here saying that Vienna doesn't have long commuting times. In this case, the OP works in Oakton, so a commute from Vienna would not be a problem.



It's utter nonsense to claim that all of the Town of Vienna is "walkable," as that term is generally understood. The concentration of businesses along two long, parallel streets limits its walkability for many residents.

As understood by whom? You? And I suppose you work for Webster's?


What are the walk scores for a house a block off of Maple? 1/2 mile? 2 miles?



Many homes in the Town of Vienna have Walk Scores in the 10s and 20s.

Out of curiosity, I just checked our walk score. We live in Vienna and got an 81. We are close to many shops and we walk a lot more when the weather is nice.

I also live in the town of Vienna and love it here because we can walk to the farmers market, community center, library and we bike on the trail. Our walk score is 57. The only issue is that new construction is expensive.

Whether this is true or not, the poster who said all of the Town of Vienna was very walkable was wrong. Many homes in the Town of Vienna have Walk Scores in the 10s and 20s, which is not "very walkable" at all.

PP here: also, the walk score is a function of distance, not really factoring in roads suitability. Church street is very walkable. Crossing Church is trivial. Crossing Maple is harder.


Oh, c'mon.Crossing Maple is a lot easier than it is to cross roads near Tysons Corner, crossing N. Glebe near Ballston Mall, or crossing any street (you choose) in DC. There are cross cuts, and even a bird-sound alert for vision impaired people.



It's certainly easier to cross Maple than to cross major roads in Tysons. It is no easier to cross Maple than to cross a typical street in DC, much less walk along Maple. It is not that inviting a place to walk, and only a fraction of the homes in the Town of Vienna are within close enough distance of amenities that residents will regularly walk to them. That's one reason why so many cars are on the streets and the new houses are built with two and three-car garages. Of course, Maple Avenue/123 is also a huge commuter route, so you get the additional traffic heading in both directions. And, of course, the Vienna Metro is far enough away that most people in the Town who want to use it have to drive to get there.

That is similar to parts of North Arlington, but also very different from other parts of North Arlington where you really can live a car-free lifestyle if you are so inclined.

Guess you missed the part where the OP said they needed to be able to commute to Oakton. The OP needs to have a car. That's what this entire discussion has been about. Pay attention, PP.

Oh, so now you want to go back to the OP's original post? Cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You enjoy arguing, but at the end of the day Vienna just isn't that walkable. The silliness of your responses is underscored by the reference to the NE part of the Town of Vienna being "walkable to Tysons." Good luck with that.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.9208297,-77.252886/38.9306568,-77.2448606/@38.9218972,-77.253921,15z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e2

[Anonymous]

Arlington is much more walkable, but the school overcrowding issue is getting pretty bad. The SB/APS is slow to respond and they don't address the issue evenly. Look at the capacity of schools and you'll see what I mean. Even with the newest ES, the most affluent neighborhoods gets a shiny new school with lots of bells and whistles while the additions elsewhere keep getting their scopes cut. For MS, the projected number of trailers before the MS opens won't even fit at at least one of the schools. I didn't even bring up HS, yet. I hope more people get fed up and move out West.

Move to Fairfax County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Arlington is much more walkable, but the school overcrowding issue is getting pretty bad. The SB/APS is slow to respond and they don't address the issue evenly. Look at the capacity of schools and you'll see what I mean. Even with the newest ES, the most affluent neighborhoods gets a shiny new school with lots of bells and whistles while the additions elsewhere keep getting their scopes cut. For MS, the projected number of trailers before the MS opens won't even fit at at least one of the schools. I didn't even bring up HS, yet. I hope more people get fed up and move out West.

Move to Fairfax County.

Sounds like every single Vienna school. If you think this isn't an issue throughout Fairfax County, you haven't been paying attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Arlington is much more walkable, but the school overcrowding issue is getting pretty bad. The SB/APS is slow to respond and they don't address the issue evenly. Look at the capacity of schools and you'll see what I mean. Even with the newest ES, the most affluent neighborhoods gets a shiny new school with lots of bells and whistles while the additions elsewhere keep getting their scopes cut. For MS, the projected number of trailers before the MS opens won't even fit at at least one of the schools. I didn't even bring up HS, yet. I hope more people get fed up and move out West.

Move to Fairfax County.

Sounds like every single Vienna school. If you think this isn't an issue throughout Fairfax County, you haven't been paying attention.

I haven't. I don't live in Fairfax. OK. I will change my advice: Move to Loudoun County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only one commute to Oakton. Vienna is clearly better commute but would like to get a sense of the vibe of these two communities. What do you see are the most distinct differences in culture, atmosphere, people, overall feeling, etc in these two areas? How about differences in the schools (Yorktown v. Madison)? We are looking for liberal leaning, vibrant community, down-to-earth people, good schools. Any other areas might we want to consider?

I hit the reset button.

Culture: Biggest difference is that Yorktown will be more DC-centric. People in Vienna work all over - in DC, Tysons, Fairfax, Reston, Dulles.

Atmosphere: Yorktown has a preppier vibe than Madison. Madison has a particularly sports-oriented culture for a NoVa public. Academics are very similar, as both are top AP schools.

People: See culture. Vienna is friendlier overall, Arlington is more competitive.

Overall feeling: Vienna has a small "town" at its core; Arlington promotes itself as having a series of "urban villages." Both areas are mostly suburban; only the "Yorktown island" in Rosslyn/Court House has an urban feel.

Walkability: Typically exaggerated in both Arlington and Vienna. Greatest walkability in Yorktown district will be in the Yorktown "island" near Rosslyn/Court House, or in the areas near Lee Highway west old Old Dominion (Lee/Harrison) or Washington Boulevard (Westover area). Otherwise, not very walkable. Greatest walkability in Madison district will be in the Town of Vienna if you aren't far from Maple Avenue/Church Street. Otherwise, not very walkable.

Liberal-leaning: Both areas skew Democratic, but Vienna is more culturally conservative and it gets more Republican as you get into the wealthier parts of Vienna, which are in Fairfax County out towards Oakton (to the west) or Great Falls (to the north).

Down-to-earth: Not really relevant in these markets. Vienna will have more people who like to portray themselves as "down-to-earth."

Good schools: Yes. Schools feeding into Yorktown face more crowding/trailers/redistricting; schools feeding into Madison will have larger class sizes.

[Anonymous]

Thank you 14:26!

[Anonymous]

What about Oakton, Marshall, South Lakes, Langley? Vienna addresses go to more than one HS. Arlington, too, has more than one HS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about Oakton, Marshall, South Lakes, Langley? Vienna addresses go to more than one HS. Arlington, too, has more than one HS

OP made specific reference to Yorktown and Madison, so it seemed like she was just looking at parts of North Arlington and Vienna that fed into those schools. Perhaps not.

You could live in Vienna and attend Madison, Marshall, Oakton, McLean, South Lakes, Langley or Falls Church. You could live in North Arlington and attend Yorktown or Washington-Lee.

My sense is that the three most similar of the bunch are Madison, McLean and Yorktown.