What is an exurb ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never thought of exurbs as wealthy! If anything I picture hicks living in McMansions. People who demand to live in a 5 bedroom house on a 70k salary.

No 5 BR places for under 300k anywhere in Loudoun County VA.

They aren't even that common in Frederick MD or Winchester VA. Only in Martinsburg WV and Hagerstown MD are you getting that with some frequency.

Loudoun is dominated by families making a solid 100k-200k a year. Not much poverty or single-person/young couple households, comparatively speaking, to drag the averages down. Fairfax and to a greater extent Montgomery is divided more sharply between the "have a lots" and the "not having much." In DC it is much worse.

Frederick MD has a little more residual poverty due to a larger "legacy city". It is like Loudoun except the newbies are all making 80-160k a year instead of 100k-200k a year. I'll also argue the agricultural sector is more functional as opposed to boutique (*) but that is quibbling.

(*) Super-organic farms and 1%er retreats.

As for Bawlmer and DC ... Bawlmer is way too big to be a satellite city. But PP is right, they're not associated the same way that say Minneapolis/St. Paul are or other city pairings like the Tri-Cities of Bristol/Johnston City/Kingsport or the Quad Cities of IA.

But they're too close to *not* be associated.

Exactly 100-200k a year isn't wealthy and will require a lengthy commute if you want a big house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I've never thought of exurbs as wealthy! If anything I picture hicks living in McMansions. People who demand to live in a 5 bedroom house on a 70k salary.

SE DC is where you can live if that is your annual income. You will also get some assistance

Sorry but the DC exurbs are filled with people making only 70k a year. I don't think you qualify for housing assistance or food stamps on 70k. You probably get some sort of subsidy for obamacare and qualify for financial aid but that's all I can think of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Loudoun is dominated by families making a solid 100k-200k a year. Not much poverty or single-person/young couple households, comparatively speaking, to drag the averages down. Fairfax and to a greater extent Montgomery is divided more sharply between the "have a lots" and the "not having much." In DC it is much worse.

There's a value judgment there, it seems, that it's best to live in a county that's one giant Toll Brothers subdivision full of people commuting to places with more jobs and more diversity. That's the essence of the exurban minsdet, as I've always understood it. If you can't run with the "have a lots," move further out so you don't have to mix with those "not having much."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Loudoun is dominated by families making a solid 100k-200k a year. Not much poverty or single-person/young couple households, comparatively speaking, to drag the averages down. Fairfax and to a greater extent Montgomery is divided more sharply between the "have a lots" and the "not having much." In DC it is much worse.

There's a value judgment there, it seems, that it's best to live in a county that's one giant Toll Brothers subdivision full of people commuting to places with more jobs and more diversity. That's the essence of the exurban minsdet, as I've always understood it. If you can't run with the "have a lots," move further out so you don't have to mix with those "not having much."

It is not "if you can't run with the haves" ... What it's more like, the middle class has always been able to run with the haves. But, if you value SES diversity, you have to live I the exurbs bacause the city and close in burbs polarize their communities putting the poors in certain neighborhoods and keeping them away from the rich kids. It disgusts some people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I've never thought of exurbs as wealthy! If anything I picture hicks living in McMansions. People who demand to live in a 5 bedroom house on a 70k salary.

SE DC is where you can live if that is your annual income. You will also get some assistance

Sorry but the DC exurbs are filled with people making only 70k a year. I don't think you qualify for housing assistance or food stamps on 70k. You probably get some sort of subsidy for obamacare and qualify for financial aid but that's all I can think of.

DC has sections filled with that income too. With that income your kids qualify for farms and you can go to the food bank. Reduced housing is also an option, but it takes time to get it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I've never thought of exurbs as wealthy! If anything I picture hicks living in McMansions. People who demand to live in a 5 bedroom house on a 70k salary.

SE DC is where you can live if that is your annual income. You will also get some assistance

Sorry but the DC exurbs are filled with people making only 70k a year. I don't think you qualify for housing assistance or food stamps on 70k. You probably get some sort of subsidy for obamacare and qualify for financial aid but that's all I can think of.

DC has sections filled with that income too. With that income your kids qualify for farms and you can go to the food bank. Reduced housing is also an option, but it takes time to get it

What is a section?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Loudoun is dominated by families making a solid 100k-200k a year. Not much poverty or single-person/young couple households, comparatively speaking, to drag the averages down. Fairfax and to a greater extent Montgomery is divided more sharply between the "have a lots" and the "not having much." In DC it is much worse.

There's a value judgment there, it seems, that it's best to live in a county that's one giant Toll Brothers subdivision full of people commuting to places with more jobs and more diversity. That's the essence of the exurban minsdet, as I've always understood it. If you can't run with the "have a lots," move further out so you don't have to mix with those "not having much."

It is not "if you can't run with the haves" ... What it's more like, the middle class has always been able to run with the haves. But, if you value SES diversity, you have to live I the exurbs bacause the city and close in burbs polarize their communities putting the poors in certain neighborhoods and keeping them away from the rich kids. It disgusts some people.

How do you get the SES diversity when everyone is making $100-200K a year and there is "not much poverty" to "drag the averages down"? Sounds like people in the exurbs can't agree on what they offer, or are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Nope, the exurbs are where people run off to when they want to live in a bubble where everyone is above-average and has a shiny new house in the latest development "away from it all." It's a terrible development model because there's always one more subdivision to be built further out and no one ever bothers to make sure there are jobs nearby or a transportation infrastructure in place to support all the new commuters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Loudoun is dominated by families making a solid 100k-200k a year. Not much poverty or single-person/young couple households, comparatively speaking, to drag the averages down. Fairfax and to a greater extent Montgomery is divided more sharply between the "have a lots" and the "not having much." In DC it is much worse.

There's a value judgment there, it seems, that it's best to live in a county that's one giant Toll Brothers subdivision full of people commuting to places with more jobs and more diversity. That's the essence of the exurban minsdet, as I've always understood it. If you can't run with the "have a lots," move further out so you don't have to mix with those "not having much."

It is not "if you can't run with the haves" ... What it's more like, the middle class has always been able to run with the haves. But, if you value SES diversity, you have to live I the exurbs bacause the city and close in burbs polarize their communities putting the poors in certain neighborhoods and keeping them away from the rich kids. It disgusts some people.

How do you get the SES diversity when everyone is making $100-200K a year and there is "not much poverty" to "drag the averages down"? Sounds like people in the exurbs can't agree on what they offer, or are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Nope, the exurbs are where people run off to when they want to live in a bubble where everyone is above-average and has a shiny new house in the latest development "away from it all." It's a terrible development model because there's always one more subdivision to be built further out and no one ever bothers to make sure there are jobs nearby or a transportation infrastructure in place to support all the new commuters.

No. All new communities are required to have MPDUs, moderately priced dwelling units. Out neighborhood, for example, has approx 50 - 3 br houses that were govt. subsidized. They are dispersed throughout the neighborhood of 300 homes. It integrates the whole community.

We have 3 grocery stores close by, 3 elementary school, 3 high schools, NIH, MedImmune, Johns Hopkins ... Nobody has to go to DC for a job, mostly they work close by. If we need to go to DC the train is 5 min from our neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Loudoun is dominated by families making a solid 100k-200k a year. Not much poverty or single-person/young couple households, comparatively speaking, to drag the averages down. Fairfax and to a greater extent Montgomery is divided more sharply between the "have a lots" and the "not having much." In DC it is much worse.

There's a value judgment there, it seems, that it's best to live in a county that's one giant Toll Brothers subdivision full of people commuting to places with more jobs and more diversity. That's the essence of the exurban minsdet, as I've always understood it. If you can't run with the "have a lots," move further out so you don't have to mix with those "not having much."

It is not "if you can't run with the haves" ... What it's more like, the middle class has always been able to run with the haves. But, if you value SES diversity, you have to live I the exurbs bacause the city and close in burbs polarize their communities putting the poors in certain neighborhoods and keeping them away from the rich kids. It disgusts some people.

How do you get the SES diversity when everyone is making $100-200K a year and there is "not much poverty" to "drag the averages down"? Sounds like people in the exurbs can't agree on what they offer, or are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Nope, the exurbs are where people run off to when they want to live in a bubble where everyone is above-average and has a shiny new house in the latest development "away from it all." It's a terrible development model because there's always one more subdivision to be built further out and no one ever bothers to make sure there are jobs nearby or a transportation infrastructure in place to support all the new commuters.

No. All new communities are required to have MPDUs, moderately priced dwelling units. Out neighborhood, for example, has approx 50 - 3 br houses that were govt. subsidized. They are dispersed throughout the neighborhood of 300 homes. It integrates the whole community.

We have 3 grocery stores close by, 3 elementary school, 3 high schools, NIH, MedImmune, Johns Hopkins ... Nobody has to go to DC for a job, mostly they work close by. If we need to go to DC the train is 5 min from our neighborhood.

Thanks for sharing but you do not live in an exurb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Loudoun is dominated by families making a solid 100k-200k a year. Not much poverty or single-person/young couple households, comparatively speaking, to drag the averages down. Fairfax and to a greater extent Montgomery is divided more sharply between the "have a lots" and the "not having much." In DC it is much worse.

There's a value judgment there, it seems, that it's best to live in a county that's one giant Toll Brothers subdivision full of people commuting to places with more jobs and more diversity. That's the essence of the exurban minsdet, as I've always understood it. If you can't run with the "have a lots," move further out so you don't have to mix with those "not having much."

It is not "if you can't run with the haves" ... What it's more like, the middle class has always been able to run with the haves. But, if you value SES diversity, you have to live I the exurbs bacause the city and close in burbs polarize their communities putting the poors in certain neighborhoods and keeping them away from the rich kids. It disgusts some people.

How do you get the SES diversity when everyone is making $100-200K a year and there is "not much poverty" to "drag the averages down"? Sounds like people in the exurbs can't agree on what they offer, or are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Nope, the exurbs are where people run off to when they want to live in a bubble where everyone is above-average and has a shiny new house in the latest development "away from it all." It's a terrible development model because there's always one more subdivision to be built further out and no one ever bothers to make sure there are jobs nearby or a transportation infrastructure in place to support all the new commuters.

No. All new communities are required to have MPDUs, moderately priced dwelling units. Out neighborhood, for example, has approx 50 - 3 br houses that were govt. subsidized. They are dispersed throughout the neighborhood of 300 homes. It integrates the whole community.

We have 3 grocery stores close by, 3 elementary school, 3 high schools, NIH, MedImmune, Johns Hopkins ... Nobody has to go to DC for a job, mostly they work close by. If we need to go to DC the train is 5 min from our neighborhood.

Isn't NIH In Bethesda? Pretty sure that's not an exurb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How do you get the SES diversity when everyone is making $100-200K a year and there is "not much poverty" to "drag the averages down"? Sounds like people in the exurbs can't agree on what they offer, or are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Nope, the exurbs are where people run off to when they want to live in a bubble where everyone is above-average and has a shiny new house in the latest development "away from it all." It's a terrible development model because there's always one more subdivision to be built further out and no one ever bothers to make sure there are jobs nearby or a transportation infrastructure in place to support all the new commuters.

Yes, we can talk on both sides of our mouth because we can. There are very expensive and cheaper housing available. The poor do not live in the ghetto. Middle income people also do not live like that. High income people also exist. Some have long commutes, some do not. Everytime I look for jobs I see a lot of jobs in Germantown, Rockville, Gaithersburg. You would have to pay a lot more than what I am making now to take a job in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Loudoun is dominated by families making a solid 100k-200k a year. Not much poverty or single-person/young couple households, comparatively speaking, to drag the averages down. Fairfax and to a greater extent Montgomery is divided more sharply between the "have a lots" and the "not having much." In DC it is much worse.

There's a value judgment there, it seems, that it's best to live in a county that's one giant Toll Brothers subdivision full of people commuting to places with more jobs and more diversity. That's the essence of the exurban minsdet, as I've always understood it. If you can't run with the "have a lots," move further out so you don't have to mix with those "not having much."

It is not "if you can't run with the haves" ... What it's more like, the middle class has always been able to run with the haves. But, if you value SES diversity, you have to live I the exurbs bacause the city and close in burbs polarize their communities putting the poors in certain neighborhoods and keeping them away from the rich kids. It disgusts some people.

How do you get the SES diversity when everyone is making $100-200K a year and there is "not much poverty" to "drag the averages down"? Sounds like people in the exurbs can't agree on what they offer, or are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Nope, the exurbs are where people run off to when they want to live in a bubble where everyone is above-average and has a shiny new house in the latest development "away from it all." It's a terrible development model because there's always one more subdivision to be built further out and no one ever bothers to make sure there are jobs nearby or a transportation infrastructure in place to support all the new commuters.

No. All new communities are required to have MPDUs, moderately priced dwelling units. Out neighborhood, for example, has approx 50 - 3 br houses that were govt. subsidized. They are dispersed throughout the neighborhood of 300 homes. It integrates the whole community.

We have 3 grocery stores close by, 3 elementary school, 3 high schools, NIH, MedImmune, Johns Hopkins ... Nobody has to go to DC for a job, mostly they work close by. If we need to go to DC the train is 5 min from our neighborhood.

Isn't NIH In Bethesda? Pretty sure that's not an exurb.

Part of it is near the Kentlands. National Cancer Institute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Loudoun is dominated by families making a solid 100k-200k a year. Not much poverty or single-person/young couple households, comparatively speaking, to drag the averages down. Fairfax and to a greater extent Montgomery is divided more sharply between the "have a lots" and the "not having much." In DC it is much worse.

There's a value judgment there, it seems, that it's best to live in a county that's one giant Toll Brothers subdivision full of people commuting to places with more jobs and more diversity. That's the essence of the exurban minsdet, as I've always understood it. If you can't run with the "have a lots," move further out so you don't have to mix with those "not having much."

It is not "if you can't run with the haves" ... What it's more like, the middle class has always been able to run with the haves. But, if you value SES diversity, you have to live I the exurbs bacause the city and close in burbs polarize their communities putting the poors in certain neighborhoods and keeping them away from the rich kids. It disgusts some people.

How do you get the SES diversity when everyone is making $100-200K a year and there is "not much poverty" to "drag the averages down"? Sounds like people in the exurbs can't agree on what they offer, or are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Nope, the exurbs are where people run off to when they want to live in a bubble where everyone is above-average and has a shiny new house in the latest development "away from it all." It's a terrible development model because there's always one more subdivision to be built further out and no one ever bothers to make sure there are jobs nearby or a transportation infrastructure in place to support all the new commuters.

No. All new communities are required to have MPDUs, moderately priced dwelling units. Out neighborhood, for example, has approx 50 - 3 br houses that were govt. subsidized. They are dispersed throughout the neighborhood of 300 homes. It integrates the whole community.

We have 3 grocery stores close by, 3 elementary school, 3 high schools, NIH, MedImmune, Johns Hopkins ... Nobody has to go to DC for a job, mostly they work close by. If we need to go to DC the train is 5 min from our neighborhood.

Thanks for sharing but you do not live in an exurb.

Germantown, Darnestown,, Poolesville, clarksburg... Most people inside the beltway think it is the country. My community to NIH is 15 min. Same as the commute to JH, medimmune, etc.

If I mention these locations on a real estate post surely they think it is an exurb. All these locations fit what I describe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How do you get the SES diversity when everyone is making $100-200K a year and there is "not much poverty" to "drag the averages down"? Sounds like people in the exurbs can't agree on what they offer, or are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Nope, the exurbs are where people run off to when they want to live in a bubble where everyone is above-average and has a shiny new house in the latest development "away from it all." It's a terrible development model because there's always one more subdivision to be built further out and no one ever bothers to make sure there are jobs nearby or a transportation infrastructure in place to support all the new commuters.

Yes, we can talk on both sides of our mouth because we can. There are very expensive and cheaper housing available. The poor do not live in the ghetto. Middle income people also do not live like that. High income people also exist. Some have long commutes, some do not. Everytime I look for jobs I see a lot of jobs in Germantown, Rockville, Gaithersburg. You would have to pay a lot more than what I am making now to take a job in DC.

When a Dc job is recruiting and they find out the salary of the person working in Rockville/Gaithersburg, they know they need to up the salary to force the person hand into being willing to go to the city. Then again, it is hard to recruit somebody in this situation, many won't put a price on time away from family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Loudoun is dominated by families making a solid 100k-200k a year. Not much poverty or single-person/young couple households, comparatively speaking, to drag the averages down. Fairfax and to a greater extent Montgomery is divided more sharply between the "have a lots" and the "not having much." In DC it is much worse.

There's a value judgment there, it seems, that it's best to live in a county that's one giant Toll Brothers subdivision full of people commuting to places with more jobs and more diversity. That's the essence of the exurban minsdet, as I've always understood it. If you can't run with the "have a lots," move further out so you don't have to mix with those "not having much."

It is not "if you can't run with the haves" ... What it's more like, the middle class has always been able to run with the haves. But, if you value SES diversity, you have to live I the exurbs bacause the city and close in burbs polarize their communities putting the poors in certain neighborhoods and keeping them away from the rich kids. It disgusts some people.

How do you get the SES diversity when everyone is making $100-200K a year and there is "not much poverty" to "drag the averages down"? Sounds like people in the exurbs can't agree on what they offer, or are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Nope, the exurbs are where people run off to when they want to live in a bubble where everyone is above-average and has a shiny new house in the latest development "away from it all." It's a terrible development model because there's always one more subdivision to be built further out and no one ever bothers to make sure there are jobs nearby or a transportation infrastructure in place to support all the new commuters.

No. All new communities are required to have MPDUs, moderately priced dwelling units. Out neighborhood, for example, has approx 50 - 3 br houses that were govt. subsidized. They are dispersed throughout the neighborhood of 300 homes. It integrates the whole community.

We have 3 grocery stores close by, 3 elementary school, 3 high schools, NIH, MedImmune, Johns Hopkins ... Nobody has to go to DC for a job, mostly they work close by. If we need to go to DC the train is 5 min from our neighborhood.

Thanks for sharing but you do not live in an exurb.

Germantown, Darnestown,, Poolesville, clarksburg... Most people inside the beltway think it is the country. My community to NIH is 15 min. Same as the commute to JH, medimmune, etc.

If I mention these locations on a real estate post surely they think it is an exurb. All these locations fit what I describe.

Germantown, for sure, is just part of the suburban sprawl along the 270 corridor in Montgomery County. It is not an exurb at all.

Maybe the other places are more like "exurbs," but the type of development you're describing, with MPDUs and the like, suggest they are transitioning into suburban sprawl as well. People move to less expensive bedroom communities like these to get bigger houses and live around others of a similar SES status (not too rich, not too poor), and then over time they want employers closer to their homes, they need schools, they need less-expensive housing that tje teachers and other lower-paid workers can afford, and after a while it's just an extension of other suburbs closer to the core, with the "estate" homes increasingly getting built in the next county further out.