MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Redistributing kids" won't solve the problem. Kids self-segregate - even in some very diverse schools. In the "W schools," they'll self-segregate by money. Do you honestly think some kid living in low-income housing will be welcomed by the kid in the mansion? doubtful

And sprinkling in a few kids coming from disadvantaged homes will make them stand out, as most will be black and Hispanic. Is that fair?

If I had the answer, I'd be a millionaire. But I know that this solution will not work either.

This solution actually does work.

I don't know if a kid in a mansion will welcome a kid living in low-income housing, and I don't know if it's fair to make disadvantaged kids to stand out.

What I do know is that the educational outcomes for poor kids are a lot better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

which fails to take into account grade inflation - as the pressure is on to pass minority students

Talk to any of the Hispanic and black males who come out of a W school and enter alternative settings. Ask them how comfortable they felt in a W school. It's not just about grades, which mean nothing in this day and age. It's about well-being.

Finally, let's see how accepting the neighborhoods in Bethesda, Chevy Chase and Potomac will be if the county decides to change boundaries. You will have a fight on your hands as property values immediately plummet - especially if low-incoming housing is thrown into the mix.

So even IF the kids are welcoming, their parents won't be.

So what? We all bought houses in MoCo, districted to MCPS. No one is entitled to a specific school with specific demographics, no matter how much they paid for their house. No one.

Are you for real? Do you genuinely not understand that people pay more for houses in certain school districts? It's not about entitlement, it's about getting what you pay (and scrimp and save and sacrifice other things) for.

That is not how it works. People can pay whatever they want for whatever quality they perceive, but that payment does not create a contract with the county (or anyone else). We all pay the same taxes to the same county for the same school district, MCPS. We are all entitled to have our children educated by MCPS. MCPS can organize schools however it sees fit, to deliver that education.

If you want the guarantee of kids from five miles away not sitting next to your kid in her classroom, then buy a house in a town-based system. MCPS is a large school district, and we are ALL entitled to the SAME education by virtue of living here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Are you for real? Do you genuinely not understand that people pay more for houses in certain school districts? It's not about entitlement, it's about getting what you pay (and scrimp and save and sacrifice other things) for.

It bears repeating, from a different poster: you did NOT "pay for" a particular school. You paid money to a seller and to a realtor. You did not make an agreement with the school system that your boundaries wouldn't change, that your demographics wouldn't change, that your class sizes wouldn't change. This very disclaimer is on the MCPS website: "MCPS has made substantial efforts to ensure the accuracy of the [school boundary] information. However school service areas are subject to change. Also school assignments may be unreliable for residents in new subdivisions or residents near a school service area boundary."

But go ahead. The louder the cries get from the "we paid more for our houses so we deserve better schools" crowd, the sooner the county council and Board of Ed forces some kind of change to create more equitable schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a lot of talk about what happens when the less affluent students are introduced into the more affluent schools. Why aren't we re-drawing the lines or proposing bussing that would start assigning the well-off kids to the schools with high FARMS rates?

Because putting poor students in affluent schools is already politically difficult enough. A plan to put affluent students in poor schools would be dead on arrival. Plus, even if it weren't, affluent parents would take their children out of public school and put them in private schools. Nobody loves the idea of sending their child halfway across the county to go to school, but affluent parents are able to buy their way out of it.

Now, if you had a magic wand that you could wave to implement Warren Buffett's solution of assigning children to public schools by random lottery, plus ban private schools, that would be different.

How about putting affordable housing all over the county?

Housing. It is all about housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Are you for real? Do you genuinely not understand that people pay more for houses in certain school districts? It's not about entitlement, it's about getting what you pay (and scrimp and save and sacrifice other things) for.

It bears repeating, from a different poster: you did NOT "pay for" a particular school. You paid money to a seller and to a realtor. You did not make an agreement with the school system that your boundaries wouldn't change, that your demographics wouldn't change, that your class sizes wouldn't change. This very disclaimer is on the MCPS website: "MCPS has made substantial efforts to ensure the accuracy of the [school boundary] information. However school service areas are subject to change. Also school assignments may be unreliable for residents in new subdivisions or residents near a school service area boundary."

But go ahead. The louder the cries get from the "we paid more for our houses so we deserve better schools" crowd, the sooner the county council and Board of Ed forces some kind of change to create more equitable schools.

+1

And PP, there are no "school districts." There is ONE school DISTRICT. One. Singular. It is MCPS. Your kid at a W school is in the SAME SCHOOL DISTRICT as the kid at Kennedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a lot of talk about what happens when the less affluent students are introduced into the more affluent schools. Why aren't we re-drawing the lines or proposing bussing that would start assigning the well-off kids to the schools with high FARMS rates?

Because putting poor students in affluent schools is already politically difficult enough. A plan to put affluent students in poor schools would be dead on arrival. Plus, even if it weren't, affluent parents would take their children out of public school and put them in private schools. Nobody loves the idea of sending their child halfway across the county to go to school, but affluent parents are able to buy their way out of it.

Now, if you had a magic wand that you could wave to implement Warren Buffett's solution of assigning children to public schools by random lottery, plus ban private schools, that would be different.

How about putting affordable housing all over the county?

Housing. It is all about housing.

Sure! But you'd need a magic wand for that, too, if you wanted there to be meaningful change within the next few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Redistributing kids" won't solve the problem. Kids self-segregate - even in some very diverse schools. In the "W schools," they'll self-segregate by money. Do you honestly think some kid living in low-income housing will be welcomed by the kid in the mansion? doubtful

And sprinkling in a few kids coming from disadvantaged homes will make them stand out, as most will be black and Hispanic. Is that fair?

If I had the answer, I'd be a millionaire. But I know that this solution will not work either.

This solution actually does work.

I don't know if a kid in a mansion will welcome a kid living in low-income housing, and I don't know if it's fair to make disadvantaged kids to stand out.

What I do know is that the educational outcomes for poor kids are a lot better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

which fails to take into account grade inflation - as the pressure is on to pass minority students

Talk to any of the Hispanic and black males who come out of a W school and enter alternative settings. Ask them how comfortable they felt in a W school. It's not just about grades, which mean nothing in this day and age. It's about well-being.

Finally, let's see how accepting the neighborhoods in Bethesda, Chevy Chase and Potomac will be if the county decides to change boundaries. You will have a fight on your hands as property values immediately plummet - especially if low-incoming housing is thrown into the mix.

So even IF the kids are welcoming, their parents won't be.

So what? We all bought houses in MoCo, districted to MCPS. No one is entitled to a specific school with specific demographics, no matter how much they paid for their house. No one.

Are you for real? Do you genuinely not understand that people pay more for houses in certain school districts? It's not about entitlement, it's about getting what you pay (and scrimp and save and sacrifice other things) for.

That is not how it works. People can pay whatever they want for whatever quality they perceive, but that payment does not create a contract with the county (or anyone else). We all pay the same taxes to the same county for the same school district, MCPS. We are all entitled to have our children educated by MCPS. MCPS can organize schools however it sees fit, to deliver that education.

If you want the guarantee of kids from five miles away not sitting next to your kid in her classroom, then buy a house in a town-based system. MCPS is a large school district, and we are ALL entitled to the SAME education by virtue of living here.

When did I say I don't want a kid from anywhere sitting next to my kid? I want my kid at the best school possible, as does, I'm sure, the parents of the kid from five miles away. All kids deserve a great education. He's welcome to sit with my kid and they can learn from and alongside each other. But I'm not sending my kid to a lower-performing school to make some PC point. It's a housing affordability issue. Bring kids whose parents can't afford a W school in? Absolutely. Force kids whose parents made sacrifices to live very close to that school out of it? Nope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Redistributing kids" won't solve the problem. Kids self-segregate - even in some very diverse schools. In the "W schools," they'll self-segregate by money. Do you honestly think some kid living in low-income housing will be welcomed by the kid in the mansion? doubtful

And sprinkling in a few kids coming from disadvantaged homes will make them stand out, as most will be black and Hispanic. Is that fair?

If I had the answer, I'd be a millionaire. But I know that this solution will not work either.

This solution actually does work.

I don't know if a kid in a mansion will welcome a kid living in low-income housing, and I don't know if it's fair to make disadvantaged kids to stand out.

What I do know is that the educational outcomes for poor kids are a lot better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

which fails to take into account grade inflation - as the pressure is on to pass minority students

Talk to any of the Hispanic and black males who come out of a W school and enter alternative settings. Ask them how comfortable they felt in a W school. It's not just about grades, which mean nothing in this day and age. It's about well-being.

Finally, let's see how accepting the neighborhoods in Bethesda, Chevy Chase and Potomac will be if the county decides to change boundaries. You will have a fight on your hands as property values immediately plummet - especially if low-incoming housing is thrown into the mix.

So even IF the kids are welcoming, their parents won't be.

So what? We all bought houses in MoCo, districted to MCPS. No one is entitled to a specific school with specific demographics, no matter how much they paid for their house. No one.

Are you for real? Do you genuinely not understand that people pay more for houses in certain school districts? It's not about entitlement, it's about getting what you pay (and scrimp and save and sacrifice other things) for.

That is not how it works. People can pay whatever they want for whatever quality they perceive, but that payment does not create a contract with the county (or anyone else). We all pay the same taxes to the same county for the same school district, MCPS. We are all entitled to have our children educated by MCPS. MCPS can organize schools however it sees fit, to deliver that education.

If you want the guarantee of kids from five miles away not sitting next to your kid in her classroom, then buy a house in a town-based system. MCPS is a large school district, and we are ALL entitled to the SAME education by virtue of living here.

If you think that is true you are delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Redistributing kids" won't solve the problem. Kids self-segregate - even in some very diverse schools. In the "W schools," they'll self-segregate by money. Do you honestly think some kid living in low-income housing will be welcomed by the kid in the mansion? doubtful

And sprinkling in a few kids coming from disadvantaged homes will make them stand out, as most will be black and Hispanic. Is that fair?

If I had the answer, I'd be a millionaire. But I know that this solution will not work either.

This solution actually does work.

I don't know if a kid in a mansion will welcome a kid living in low-income housing, and I don't know if it's fair to make disadvantaged kids to stand out.

What I do know is that the educational outcomes for poor kids are a lot better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

which fails to take into account grade inflation - as the pressure is on to pass minority students

Talk to any of the Hispanic and black males who come out of a W school and enter alternative settings. Ask them how comfortable they felt in a W school. It's not just about grades, which mean nothing in this day and age. It's about well-being.

Finally, let's see how accepting the neighborhoods in Bethesda, Chevy Chase and Potomac will be if the county decides to change boundaries. You will have a fight on your hands as property values immediately plummet - especially if low-incoming housing is thrown into the mix.

So even IF the kids are welcoming, their parents won't be.

So what? We all bought houses in MoCo, districted to MCPS. No one is entitled to a specific school with specific demographics, no matter how much they paid for their house. No one.

Are you for real? Do you genuinely not understand that people pay more for houses in certain school districts? It's not about entitlement, it's about getting what you pay (and scrimp and save and sacrifice other things) for.

That is not how it works. People can pay whatever they want for whatever quality they perceive, but that payment does not create a contract with the county (or anyone else). We all pay the same taxes to the same county for the same school district, MCPS. We are all entitled to have our children educated by MCPS. MCPS can organize schools however it sees fit, to deliver that education.

If you want the guarantee of kids from five miles away not sitting next to your kid in her classroom, then buy a house in a town-based system. MCPS is a large school district, and we are ALL entitled to the SAME education by virtue of living here.

When did I say I don't want a kid from anywhere sitting next to my kid? I want my kid at the best school possible, as does, I'm sure, the parents of the kid from five miles away. All kids deserve a great education. He's welcome to sit with my kid and they can learn from and alongside each other. But I'm not sending my kid to a lower-performing school to make some PC point. It's a housing affordability issue. Bring kids whose parents can't afford a W school in? Absolutely. Force kids whose parents made sacrifices to live very close to that school out of it? Nope.

Your kid attends an MCPS school. MCPS can change the boundaries when it so chooses and your kid will still be in the same (ONE) school district. Not "your" school district; THE school district.

Whatever sacrifices you have made to afford your house play no role here. None whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Redistributing kids" won't solve the problem. Kids self-segregate - even in some very diverse schools. In the "W schools," they'll self-segregate by money. Do you honestly think some kid living in low-income housing will be welcomed by the kid in the mansion? doubtful

And sprinkling in a few kids coming from disadvantaged homes will make them stand out, as most will be black and Hispanic. Is that fair?

If I had the answer, I'd be a millionaire. But I know that this solution will not work either.

This solution actually does work.

I don't know if a kid in a mansion will welcome a kid living in low-income housing, and I don't know if it's fair to make disadvantaged kids to stand out.

What I do know is that the educational outcomes for poor kids are a lot better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

which fails to take into account grade inflation - as the pressure is on to pass minority students

Talk to any of the Hispanic and black males who come out of a W school and enter alternative settings. Ask them how comfortable they felt in a W school. It's not just about grades, which mean nothing in this day and age. It's about well-being.

Finally, let's see how accepting the neighborhoods in Bethesda, Chevy Chase and Potomac will be if the county decides to change boundaries. You will have a fight on your hands as property values immediately plummet - especially if low-incoming housing is thrown into the mix.

So even IF the kids are welcoming, their parents won't be.

So what? We all bought houses in MoCo, districted to MCPS. No one is entitled to a specific school with specific demographics, no matter how much they paid for their house. No one.

Are you for real? Do you genuinely not understand that people pay more for houses in certain school districts? It's not about entitlement, it's about getting what you pay (and scrimp and save and sacrifice other things) for.

That is not how it works. People can pay whatever they want for whatever quality they perceive, but that payment does not create a contract with the county (or anyone else). We all pay the same taxes to the same county for the same school district, MCPS. We are all entitled to have our children educated by MCPS. MCPS can organize schools however it sees fit, to deliver that education.

If you want the guarantee of kids from five miles away not sitting next to your kid in her classroom, then buy a house in a town-based system. MCPS is a large school district, and we are ALL entitled to the SAME education by virtue of living here.

When did I say I don't want a kid from anywhere sitting next to my kid? I want my kid at the best school possible, as does, I'm sure, the parents of the kid from five miles away. All kids deserve a great education. He's welcome to sit with my kid and they can learn from and alongside each other. But I'm not sending my kid to a lower-performing school to make some PC point. It's a housing affordability issue. Bring kids whose parents can't afford a W school in? Absolutely. Force kids whose parents made sacrifices to live very close to that school out of it? Nope.

Your kid attends an MCPS school. MCPS can change the boundaries when it so chooses and your kid will still be in the same (ONE) school district. Not "your" school district; THE school district.

Whatever sacrifices you have made to afford your house play no role here. None whatsoever.

Obviously I'm not legally entitled to any particular school district. You don't need to hammer that home. But the boundary issue IS an issue because of voices like mine, which aren't few and far between. It's the housing costs and the school quality (which by all accounts is similar at the lower-performing schools and more taxpayer money is spent on them; the bottom line is that the lower-performing kids there aren't getting home support, which won't change no matter where they go) that are the issue.

Basically you're faulting me for doing what I could to increase the chances (not guarantee) of my kids going to a high-performing school. Shame on me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Redistributing kids" won't solve the problem. Kids self-segregate - even in some very diverse schools. In the "W schools," they'll self-segregate by money. Do you honestly think some kid living in low-income housing will be welcomed by the kid in the mansion? doubtful

And sprinkling in a few kids coming from disadvantaged homes will make them stand out, as most will be black and Hispanic. Is that fair?

If I had the answer, I'd be a millionaire. But I know that this solution will not work either.

This solution actually does work.

I don't know if a kid in a mansion will welcome a kid living in low-income housing, and I don't know if it's fair to make disadvantaged kids to stand out.

What I do know is that the educational outcomes for poor kids are a lot better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

which fails to take into account grade inflation - as the pressure is on to pass minority students

Talk to any of the Hispanic and black males who come out of a W school and enter alternative settings. Ask them how comfortable they felt in a W school. It's not just about grades, which mean nothing in this day and age. It's about well-being.

Finally, let's see how accepting the neighborhoods in Bethesda, Chevy Chase and Potomac will be if the county decides to change boundaries. You will have a fight on your hands as property values immediately plummet - especially if low-incoming housing is thrown into the mix.

So even IF the kids are welcoming, their parents won't be.

So what? We all bought houses in MoCo, districted to MCPS. No one is entitled to a specific school with specific demographics, no matter how much they paid for their house. No one.

Are you for real? Do you genuinely not understand that people pay more for houses in certain school districts? It's not about entitlement, it's about getting what you pay (and scrimp and save and sacrifice other things) for.

That is not how it works. People can pay whatever they want for whatever quality they perceive, but that payment does not create a contract with the county (or anyone else). We all pay the same taxes to the same county for the same school district, MCPS. We are all entitled to have our children educated by MCPS. MCPS can organize schools however it sees fit, to deliver that education.

If you want the guarantee of kids from five miles away not sitting next to your kid in her classroom, then buy a house in a town-based system. MCPS is a large school district, and we are ALL entitled to the SAME education by virtue of living here.

If you think that is true you are delusional.

Completely.

[Anonymous]

It all comes down to the average that lower income families do not put the time to make education a priority. Add Hispanics (many illegal) that do not even speak English and use school as daycare, well it just won't change no matter what school you put them in. The fact is MCPS lower class minority numbers are climbing as they over-populate the middle class minorities and whites. Upper class send their kids to private and many middle income minorities and whites leave public for privates/parochials too. The school district is nothing what is was 10yrs ago and will be even worse in 10 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

When did I say I don't want a kid from anywhere sitting next to my kid? I want my kid at the best school possible, as does, I'm sure, the parents of the kid from five miles away. All kids deserve a great education. He's welcome to sit with my kid and they can learn from and alongside each other. But I'm not sending my kid to a lower-performing school to make some PC point. It's a housing affordability issue. Bring kids whose parents can't afford a W school in? Absolutely. Force kids whose parents made sacrifices to live very close to that school out of it? Nope.

I think that people who don't live in Chevy Chase/Bethesda/Potomac will not be very sympathetic to your talk of sacrifices. Because

1. Lots of people make sacrifices for their children's education, and lots of people who make sacrifices for their children's education still can't afford to live in Chevy Chase/Bethesda/Potomac.
2. Sending your kid across the county to go to school is also a sacrifice -- a sacrifice that you think the children of affluent parents shouldn't have to make, or so I infer. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

A better tactic is talking about how neighborhood schools support the community, and you're all about building the community. That tactic has worked for the Chevy Chases, Bethesda, and Potomac for decades.

[Anonymous]

But what is the same education? If your child does not speak English yet, should my child sit in ESOL classes while your child learns? Should your child sit in beginning French even though they are fluent becasue my child needs to learn? I don't think anyone would support that. So why do we think it is appropriate for every child to learn math at the same speed? An MCPS education does not mean the exact same education for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Redistributing kids" won't solve the problem. Kids self-segregate - even in some very diverse schools. In the "W schools," they'll self-segregate by money. Do you honestly think some kid living in low-income housing will be welcomed by the kid in the mansion? doubtful

And sprinkling in a few kids coming from disadvantaged homes will make them stand out, as most will be black and Hispanic. Is that fair?

If I had the answer, I'd be a millionaire. But I know that this solution will not work either.

This solution actually does work.

I don't know if a kid in a mansion will welcome a kid living in low-income housing, and I don't know if it's fair to make disadvantaged kids to stand out.

What I do know is that the educational outcomes for poor kids are a lot better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

which fails to take into account grade inflation - as the pressure is on to pass minority students

Talk to any of the Hispanic and black males who come out of a W school and enter alternative settings. Ask them how comfortable they felt in a W school. It's not just about grades, which mean nothing in this day and age. It's about well-being.

Finally, let's see how accepting the neighborhoods in Bethesda, Chevy Chase and Potomac will be if the county decides to change boundaries. You will have a fight on your hands as property values immediately plummet - especially if low-incoming housing is thrown into the mix.

So even IF the kids are welcoming, their parents won't be.

So what? We all bought houses in MoCo, districted to MCPS. No one is entitled to a specific school with specific demographics, no matter how much they paid for their house. No one.

Are you for real? Do you genuinely not understand that people pay more for houses in certain school districts? It's not about entitlement, it's about getting what you pay (and scrimp and save and sacrifice other things) for.

That is not how it works. People can pay whatever they want for whatever quality they perceive, but that payment does not create a contract with the county (or anyone else). We all pay the same taxes to the same county for the same school district, MCPS. We are all entitled to have our children educated by MCPS. MCPS can organize schools however it sees fit, to deliver that education.

If you want the guarantee of kids from five miles away not sitting next to your kid in her classroom, then buy a house in a town-based system. MCPS is a large school district, and we are ALL entitled to the SAME education by virtue of living here.

If you think that is true you are delusional.

I didn't say it was true in terms of how reality plays out. It is true, however, from a theoretical point of view.

The PP who thinks that her financial "sacrifices" entitle her to a private, separate school district with boundaries that never change is representative of the entitled mentality in western MoCo. And since money talks, things are unlikely to change. But I will not stop calling people out for their entitlement mentality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Obviously I'm not legally entitled to any particular school district. You don't need to hammer that home. But the boundary issue IS an issue because of voices like mine, which aren't few and far between. It's the housing costs and the school quality (which by all accounts is similar at the lower-performing schools and more taxpayer money is spent on them; the bottom line is that the lower-performing kids there aren't getting home support, which won't change no matter where they go) that are the issue.

Basically you're faulting me for doing what I could to increase the chances (not guarantee) of my kids going to a high-performing school. Shame on me.

No, we're faulting you for failing to acknowledge that one major, proven way to improve the performance of the "lower-performing kids" is to get them out of high-poverty schools and into low-poverty schools.