Ever disappointed when you look at lists of where kids are going to college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently attended an awards ceremony for the kids graduating in the top 5% of their MoCo public high school class (about 30 kids). Of that number, I'd estimate only about 50% (roughly 12-15 kids) were going to Ivies or elite private universities. Most of the rest were either attending UMCP or a 2nd tier university (think SMU, U Alabama, etc) on a full ride scholarship. I've no doubt that money was the prevaling reason, as these kids all had GPA's in the 4.6+ range and many were National Merit Semifinalists. Money talks, unless you are fortunate enough to be wealthy.

It would be interesting which Ivy kids were full pay, I doubt many were full pay.

Generally, the kids who can get into Ivies are the same kids who are likely to receive generous, even full, tuition aid. There were several kids in DC's MoCo graduating class who turned down Yale, Columbia and other schools for full rides at 2nd-tier, even 3rd-tier colleges. These kids are getting great educations for little or no debt, so all power to them.

The 1% figure for public school kids getting into top-tier schools is a little off - you have to factor in that many public school kids aren't going to ANY college, and many others are going to Montgomery College because that's what they can afford. To do an accurate comparison you'd need tables of applications and acceptances, which exist, but there are several DCUM threads on that already and there's no need for us to descend into all that acrimony on this thread.

Very few kids turn down Ivies. Harvard's yield is over 80% and no doubt a lot of the 20% are going to other Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't speak to the motivations of parents who can afford Big 3 tuition, but I know that for many public school families in wealthy areas perceive the cost of top schools (which typically offer ONLY financial aid) to be prohibitive.

We are an upper middle class family living in a close-in, wealthy suburb of DC. We are a federal government employee and a county government employee. We live in a <2000 square foot house, drive 6- and 8-year-old cars, and take most of our vacations within driving distance of DC. We save diligently for retirement. We are comfortable but hardly living high on the hog. Our FAFSA-generated expected financial contribution is $45,000 per year. Although we have saved steadily for college, we won't have anywhere near this amount saved. Rather, we project we can afford about $30k per year for college. Since virtually all of the top colleges will certainly charge us much more than that, they are all off our DC's list. Instead, DC will be applying (a) to state schools, both in-state and in other states with costs of attendance ~$30-$35k, or to lower-tier schools that give merit aid to an excellent student like DC. IOW, they are all sub-25 in the rankings. That may disappoint some people, but it won't disappoint my bank account.

Got goosebumps reading this - this is us and we will be lucky to manage $25-$30K per year so it looks like UMD for ds. Nothing wrong with that but I don't quite know how to tell him, not to bother applying to the more prestigious schools his friends will be applying to because they don't offer merit aid.

This is us as well. I think there are many families like us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently attended an awards ceremony for the kids graduating in the top 5% of their MoCo public high school class (about 30 kids). Of that number, I'd estimate only about 50% (roughly 12-15 kids) were going to Ivies or elite private universities. Most of the rest were either attending UMCP or a 2nd tier university (think SMU, U Alabama, etc) on a full ride scholarship. I've no doubt that money was the prevaling reason, as these kids all had GPA's in the 4.6+ range and many were National Merit Semifinalists. Money talks, unless you are fortunate enough to be wealthy.

It would be interesting which Ivy kids were full pay, I doubt many were full pay.

Generally, the kids who can get into Ivies are the same kids who are likely to receive generous, even full, tuition aid. There were several kids in DC's MoCo graduating class who turned down Yale, Columbia and other schools for full rides at 2nd-tier, even 3rd-tier colleges. These kids are getting great educations for little or no debt, so all power to them.

The 1% figure for public school kids getting into top-tier schools is a little off - you have to factor in that many public school kids aren't going to ANY college, and many others are going to Montgomery College because that's what they can afford. To do an accurate comparison you'd need tables of applications and acceptances, which exist, but there are several DCUM threads on that already and there's no need for us to descend into all that acrimony on this thread.

Very few kids turn down Ivies. Harvard's yield is over 80% and no doubt a lot of the 20% are going to other Ivies.

Well, very few kids turn down Harvard and Yale. Mainly Harvard. The matriculations for the other Ivies are much lower. Even for top schools the matriculation rate tends to be about 50 percent. And if you are talking about the Ivies, only about half are actually in the top ten. So plenty of kids turn down, say, Cornell or Brown for higher ranked non-"ivies." When people talk about Ivies here are you talking about the 8 schools traditionally called Ivy League or are you actually talking about the most elite schools in the country, i.e., some of the Ivies (HYP, Columbia) plus Stanford, Chicago, MIT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Got goosebumps reading this - this is us and we will be lucky to manage $25-$30K per year so it looks like UMD for ds. Nothing wrong with that but I don't quite know how to tell him, not to bother applying to the more prestigious schools his friends will be applying to because they don't offer merit aid.

This is us as well. I think there are many families like us.

Just curious, what is your HHI?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Twice as many kids going to college, and the number of slots at the top schools hasn't gone up appreciably.

This. Schools that were not that selective when we were kids have moved way up the list today. I was surprised at how much things had changed when my first started the college application process.

And they have to compete with international students, who are usually the best from their own countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Unless they've been living under a rock, most college-aged teens have probably heard of these schools: Andover, Exeter, Spence, Dalton

mine knows only the high schools close by, from track meets...those boarding schools are not known by tons o teens, and adults

Get on College confidential. Plenty of middle school kids are talking about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Unless they've been living under a rock, most college-aged teens have probably heard of these schools: Andover, Exeter, Spence, Dalton

mine knows only the high schools close by, from track meets...those boarding schools are not known by tons o teens, and adults

Get on College confidential. Plenty of middle school kids are talking about them.

College confidential is not representative of the general population..

[Anonymous]

Actually not! I am more interested in the major the kid is doing. Majoring in Art Appreciation from Harvard will not impress me much as the student majoring in Bio-technology from Podunk university!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Got goosebumps reading this - this is us and we will be lucky to manage $25-$30K per year so it looks like UMD for ds. Nothing wrong with that but I don't quite know how to tell him, not to bother applying to the more prestigious schools his friends will be applying to because they don't offer merit aid.

This is us as well. I think there are many families like us.

Just curious, what is your HHI?

Our gross HHI is $210k, both parents working FT. We live comfortably in the DC area. But we can't afford $180k for college for each of our children. (Ours won't be in school at the same time, so assuming our EFC stays the same, colleges will assume we can pay (at least) $45k per year per kid. In reality, our EFC will probably be higher for our second child, since we won't have another child at home then.)

[Anonymous]

Are parents who say they can't afford 45K considering taking out Parent PLUS loans? The right way to use a Parent PLUS loan would be to take out the amount that would end up with a debt service the equivalent to what you're saving every month now for college. That way, you can effectively double your contributions during the 4 years of college (since you can defer the Parent PLUS until graduation - you'd be able to contribute both the amount you were saving monthy plus the loan amount) After graduation, the money you would have been saving for college/paying for tuition now goes to debt service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are parents who say they can't afford 45K considering taking out Parent PLUS loans? The right way to use a Parent PLUS loan would be to take out the amount that would end up with a debt service the equivalent to what you're saving every month now for college. That way, you can effectively double your contributions during the 4 years of college (since you can defer the Parent PLUS until graduation - you'd be able to contribute both the amount you were saving monthy plus the loan amount) After graduation, the money you would have been saving for college/paying for tuition now goes to debt service.

And you will be in your 50s or 60s and looking at never, ever retiring. Also, PLUS loans have higher interest than regular, Sallie Mae loans. No thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually not! I am more interested in the major the kid is doing. Majoring in Art Appreciation from Harvard will not impress me much as the student majoring in Bio-technology from Podunk university!

Good thing my kid isn't worried about impressing you, then!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually not! I am more interested in the major the kid is doing. Majoring in Art Appreciation from Harvard will not impress me much as the student majoring in Bio-technology from Podunk university!

Good thing my kid isn't worried about impressing you, then!

+1

[Anonymous]

This is yet another reason not to obsess over whether your kid goes to a "Big 3" school.

All these bright kids will do fine, whether they go to Sidwell & Harvard or Woodrow Wilson and UMd.

[Anonymous]

Most kids are happy to go to a good school and get a good job. People who want to go to Ivy League schools and get jobs in the million dollar salary line are few and far between. And that is perfectly fine. To each their own. Someone isn't better or worse because they went to this or that school or because they become a doctor, lawyer, salesperson, teacher or carpenter. The world needs all kinds of people in all kinds of fields. And all kinds of people have all kinds of desires, ambitions and dreams in life. Let them be.