Moving to DC, will there be anything on the Market to buy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I run in that area frequently during the day, and I'd probably pick the South Carolina house over the 16th St. house purely because I think 16th NE is where things start to get sketchier. South Carolina around 13th is pretty nice. I know nothing about the schools, though.

At the 16th house you could run faster - adrenaline and fear. Burn more calories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I have heard Maury is good, but the South Carolina house is zoned for Payne. How is that one?

Payne is definitely in rough shape, but there are reasons to be optimistic about its future - the pre-school program has been getting good reviews, the building is undergoing a massive renovation this summer, the neighborhood has been drawing in lots of young families priced out of the rest of the Hill, and the school is relatively small, hence, those new families could make a large statistical difference.

Obviously, it's hard to say how things will play out, but I wouldn't be shocked if Payne looks a lot like Brent or Maury in another 5-10 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. It's amazing all the things being attributed to me. I'm sanctimonious, I care more about my dogs than my kid, I'm naïve, thin skinned, etc.

First off, I never said I didn't care about schools. What I did say was that I think it is premature to buy a house based on a non existent (I mean not born yet) kid going to school in a school system very much in a state of flux (for a number of reasons, changing demographics, changing administration, etc.). I also said there is a chance that the schools will change. No all schools and not all at once, but the chance is there. And that I was willing to chance it and if there was no change, then so be it. It's not like 5 years from now is an unreasonable time to move anyway.

People on here then went crazy at the idea that the schools MIGHT change. which I don't really understand. Maybe it's because they don't want them to so they can lord it over their friends and coworkers in lesser neighborhoods, I don't know. But there is definite movement. Scores are improving slowly, although still not at a great level (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/despite-dc-public-school-gains-system-trails-behind-large-city-average/2013/12/18/481bb332-67e2-11e3-a0b9-249bbb34602c_story.html).

All the improvements instituted by Michelle Rhee are in still in place. Incomes in the district are improving. To say there is no chance that schools will improve even in some neighborhoods is just wrong.

I also know people who live in Takoma, Shepherd Park, and Brookland. They all love their schools, some public, some charter. It's working for them and I respect them, so obviously it can work for me.

And if we are handing out the unvarnished truth. How many of the people who went nuts on me suggesting that I have no idea what I was talking about have actually ever set foot in a DC public school? I'm sure there are some, but I bet they are in the minority. Some schools are bad and dangerous. But some schools are thought to be bad because of low test scores on greatschools.com (which is purely correlated with HHI), or because they have too many black or brown kids attending. When you do some digging you find the parents love their schools, the teachers and principals are great and the school is safe. This is especially true of some elementary schools. I am certain I can find good elementary options.
There are some good schools east of the park, that I imagine are good, but suffer from reputation. And then we are looking at 10 years out. Lots can happen in that amount of time.

And if it doesn't, then guess what? I can move or go private. But to imply I'm some wild eyed idealist who doesn't know anything is just crazy.

And the suggestion that I care more about my kid than my dog, is utterly ridiculous. I do care about my dogs, since they are living things that are my responsibility. I really didn't even say that the dogs were a part of the consideration of what area I was looking to live in. I simply said renting would be difficult because of them which is one of the reasons (along with making my wife happy) I prefer to buy now. I'm not sure how saying I don't want to get rid of the dogs right now, so buying would be much easier, turned into you care more about your dogs than your kid's education. WTF?

I really appreciate the people who took the time to try to help me with my question. But to the people who took a simple question about home inventory and turned it into questions about my motivations, intelligence, love of my family, I hope everyone in the area isn't like the people on this forum.

We are also new to the area--also relocated due to work opportunities, but from West Coast--and just bought in Shepherd Park. Nice neighborhood, very diverse (observant Jews, blacks, same sex couples, all on our block), and skews pretty liberal. Some parts border Rock Creek Park, which has lots of trails--great if you exercise your dogs alot (like we do our big dog). School has decent test scores, and has increasing numbers of in-boundary families attending in recent years. We plan on sending our child there for PS3 (preschool for 3yos) in the fall. However, the areas near Georgia Ave. are a bit more sketch (although not terribly so). Also, while super convenient to MD (where I work), may be less convenient to VA. I hear some parts of Takoma Park are also nice, but also may not be terribly convenient to VA. The farmer's market there is nice--very crunchy vibe. I don't know much about Brookland. Anyway, good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No I just think my definition of a crappy school is different than probably most people on this forum. And From my reading, there are potential changes coming to how these things are distracted anyways. Also many potential places don't really have problems until Middle School and there are more acceptable elementary schools. There is just too much uncertainty in that 10 year horizon.

On a side note. I think that people here put too much importance on what the school does and not enough on the parents. Every meaningful study of schools shows that as incomes of the students rise, so does performance, no matter what else is done. Most of the neighborhoods are rapidly gentrifying. I just think it's funny that people don't think that as the demographics change, the schools want. From what I've read about some schools in east MoCo, a good school can certainly turn into a mediocre one in that period of time.

You are totally right. People here think of schools as some magical places that will turn their dumb kids into geniuses, all the while their curricula, even at the best privates, are laughable by many other countries' standards. Suckers.

[Anonymous]

Look at 16th street heights. Houses are nice, commute would work and you could find something in your price range

[Anonymous]

Which Shepherd Park school has decent test scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:t. From what I've read about some schools in east MoCo, a good school can certainly turn into a mediocre one in that period of time.

What good schools in east MoCo have turned into mediocre ones?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At that price, you could get a really nice, renovated place in Hill East/H Street/NoMa or Brookland. People are such alarmists! Our 3-bed, 2-bath row house, walkable to two Metro stops and shopping, would probably sell for $750k.

+1 We love Hill East/H Street/NoMa. Lots of families with young children. Our nice townhouse is close to several large parks for the kidos and our house is likely around $800k.

[Anonymous]

http://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2932-Mckinley-St-NW-20015/home/9993197

http://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1421-Foxhall-Rd-NW-20007/home/9938581

http://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/3391-Stuyvesant-Pl-NW-20015/home/9979328

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We already have a realtor and a lender. We've been lurking for a while and did a recon visit back in April,,but haven't been able to commit until now.
I definitely don't need something West of the Park, it's better for our commutes to be East. We also have will child care already worked out through work.
When I said I didn't know what would happen in 5 years, I meant with the school system, not my situation. I'm a big believer in the idea that schools are not good or bad, and the big determinant of a schools quality is the income of the parents. I think if you bussed the entire student population from Bethesda into a poor performing school in SE and vice versa, the performance of the students would likely not change. In fact I suspect that given an influx of motivated students with wealthy families to the school in SE would probably do better.
It's fairly obvious that the demographics of the District are changing at a rapid clip and in 5 years the distribution of wealth in the area will look very different. The schools will likely improve and the calculus will change. So buying now planning on what schools will be like in 5 years seems silly to me.
And I'm a little sad to be leaving my college town, but the opportunity for me is very promising. That's the thing about the city. More opportunities.
I actually liked Brookland, especially the yards. Takoma is nice as well. Brightwood, not as much. The only thing I worry about Brookland is that it is very hot and the potential to overpay is high. I've actually done a fair bit of research and there are probably 5-6 neighborhoods that are acceptable to us where we probably would be very happy, especially given my school philosophy..

Thanks for the advice.

Your intuition is wrong there. Just saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which Shepherd Park school has decent test scores?

Shepherd Elementary:

http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/25-Shepherd-Elementary-School/?tab=test-scores

The scores seem to increase with grade level, such that by 5th grade, 77% of students are at or above proficient in reading, 85% in math, and 78% in science.

I find this impressive given that 33% of students are FARMS, and 68% are out of boundary. The school recently transitioned to International Baccalaureate curriculum--not sure if this has anything to do with these test scores.

Also, there is increasing neighborhood buy-in--in the PS3 class this fall, all students will be in-boundary, and some IB kids were waitlisted in the initial lottery.

[Anonymous]

I love the three that 10:20 posted - those areas are safer than the houses posted in NE, with better schools. And probably a better commute to VA and parts of MD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Moving from a Midwest college town. I really don't want to rent. It will be difficult to find a place that will accept our two big dogs. Plus it was hard enough to convince my wife to take a job in DC and make the move. She would not be happy with the idea of finding a place to rent and then moving later. It's a non starter for her.
We also don't want a condo, but wouldn't mind a town home..
I'm just worried we missed the window to get a nice house. Or maybe we missed the spring feeding frenzy...

OMG, she is going to hate it here and you are going to be in deep doo-doo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. It's amazing all the things being attributed to me. I'm sanctimonious, I care more about my dogs than my kid, I'm naïve, thin skinned, etc.

First off, I never said I didn't care about schools. What I did say was that I think it is premature to buy a house based on a non existent (I mean not born yet) kid going to school in a school system very much in a state of flux (for a number of reasons, changing demographics, changing administration, etc.). I also said there is a chance that the schools will change. No all schools and not all at once, but the chance is there. And that I was willing to chance it and if there was no change, then so be it. It's not like 5 years from now is an unreasonable time to move anyway.

People on here then went crazy at the idea that the schools MIGHT change. which I don't really understand. Maybe it's because they don't want them to so they can lord it over their friends and coworkers in lesser neighborhoods, I don't know. But there is definite movement. Scores are improving slowly, although still not at a great level (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/despite-dc-public-school-gains-system-trails-behind-large-city-average/2013/12/18/481bb332-67e2-11e3-a0b9-249bbb34602c_story.html).

All the improvements instituted by Michelle Rhee are in still in place. Incomes in the district are improving. To say there is no chance that schools will improve even in some neighborhoods is just wrong.

I also know people who live in Takoma, Shepherd Park, and Brookland. They all love their schools, some public, some charter. It's working for them and I respect them, so obviously it can work for me.

And if we are handing out the unvarnished truth. How many of the people who went nuts on me suggesting that I have no idea what I was talking about have actually ever set foot in a DC public school? I'm sure there are some, but I bet they are in the minority. Some schools are bad and dangerous. But some schools are thought to be bad because of low test scores on greatschools.com (which is purely correlated with HHI), or because they have too many black or brown kids attending. When you do some digging you find the parents love their schools, the teachers and principals are great and the school is safe. This is especially true of some elementary schools. I am certain I can find good elementary options.
There are some good schools east of the park, that I imagine are good, but suffer from reputation. And then we are looking at 10 years out. Lots can happen in that amount of time.

And if it doesn't, then guess what? I can move or go private. But to imply I'm some wild eyed idealist who doesn't know anything is just crazy.

And the suggestion that I care more about my kid than my dog, is utterly ridiculous. I do care about my dogs, since they are living things that are my responsibility. I really didn't even say that the dogs were a part of the consideration of what area I was looking to live in. I simply said renting would be difficult because of them which is one of the reasons (along with making my wife happy) I prefer to buy now. I'm not sure how saying I don't want to get rid of the dogs right now, so buying would be much easier, turned into you care more about your dogs than your kid's education. WTF?

I really appreciate the people who took the time to try to help me with my question. But to the people who took a simple question about home inventory and turned it into questions about my motivations, intelligence, love of my family, I hope everyone in the area isn't like the people on this forum.

I think you are missing a point that I, and many other PPs, have been saying. Rent first. You have no clue what kind of commute you will have. Just saying you want to move to "the district" is fine (except you should listen to PP because no one says that), but there are nooks and areas that you will love more than another, and the only way to really know is to experience these neighborhoods instead of researching them online. Buying and then selling it in 2 years because you actually don't like that street just doesn't make sense anymore (maybe during the boom... but not anymore). So, what some PPs are saying, is live here for a little while before you put your savings into a neighborhood that you might not want to live in. You may still end up EOTP. Lots of great people live there in some wonderful neighborhoods. But you and your wife don't live here yet. It's silly to assume you will like a place based on the internet.

There are plenty of houses to rent that will take dogs. That's a really weak excuse!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love the three that 10:20 posted - those areas are safer than the houses posted in NE, with better schools. And probably a better commute to VA and parts of MD.

Not if he is planning on using the Metro...