Why are you an atheist?

[Anonymous]

What's the creation story in science? The Big Bang. Like it or not, that idea was sold to you in the same way religion was, and you don't question it because people in power said so. Science is just another organized religion. At least actual religion gives us something to believe in.

Not quite. Like all science, the current understanding of the Big Bang has evolved over time, and like all science, the hypothesis has been developed out of both theory and observational and experimental evidence, and it has been tested based on the predictions it makes. The most conclusive evidence for the Big Bang was the discovery in 1964 of the Cosmic Microwave Background.

The difference between religion and science is that science says, "I don't know for sure, but I think this is the way it happened based on the evidence we've found to date," while religion says, "It was God and we can't understand how it was done or why."

Our understanding of the initial moments of creation of the universe keeps getting better and pushed further and further back in time (right now it's to around 10 ^-37 seconds), and we keep learning more and more about the initial state of the universe, what might've caused the "Big Bang," and how our universe might relate to a larger "multiverse."

I don't think our understanding of Genesis has changed that much in the last century or so.

My Christmas story is that Santa Claus brings presents for the kids, which is a much nicer and more magical story than "Mommy and Daddy buy them, wrap them and hide them until you go to sleep." But the fact that's a nicer, more magical story doesn't make it any more true.

In the case of the Big Bang, the more we learn about it, the more amazing and incredible it is. We're learning about dark energy, which may be responsible for the fact that our universe appears to be expanding at an accelerating rate. Different cosmological theories imply that our universe might be embedded in a larger "metaverse" populated by other "universes" that may or may not have physical laws similar to ours.

All of that is mind boggling in its own right, and it's what we humans figured out on our own, using our brains and the tools we've created, without even having to leave our solar system.

With all of that incredible mystery there to explore, why would we want to punt and say, "God did it."?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:...
All of that is mind boggling in its own right, and it's what we humans figured out on our own, using our brains and the tools we've created, without even having to leave our solar system.

With all of that incredible mystery there to explore, why would we want to punt and say, "God did it."?

Although I am an atheist, and started to write something like the PP (although far less knowledgable), I would add that I see nothing wrong with a believer saying (as I think many do) that all that is true, and it is wonderful that God created us with the intelligence to investigate how He actually went about what the Bible told in allegorical terms, understandable to those living thousands of years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...
All of that is mind boggling in its own right, and it's what we humans figured out on our own, using our brains and the tools we've created, without even having to leave our solar system.

With all of that incredible mystery there to explore, why would we want to punt and say, "God did it."?

Although I am an atheist, and started to write something like the PP (although far less knowledgable), I would add that I see nothing wrong with a believer saying (as I think many do) that all that is true, and it is wonderful that God created us with the intelligence to investigate how He actually went about what the Bible told in allegorical terms, understandable to those living thousands of years ago.

I think that's giving a little to much credit to "God" and is a bit convoluted as well. I don't see what's so wonderful about a god who created us with the intelligence to figure it all out, but let it take 1,000's of years for us to do it -- and we're still working on it. Meanwhile, millions of His creations are leading miserable lives, because we haven't figured out the causes of many horrible diseases and we can't seem to avoid fighting with and killing each other.

Then there's also many of His creations who still think the old stories in the Bible are true - not allegorical. It sounds to me that if this was his plan, it's not working very well, which is yet another clue that there's no one out there planning things, but there are still plenty of people twisting themselves into pretzels to account for this non-existent being.

[Anonymous]

Because I want an excuse to feel persecuted at the same time I'm abusing others, in this case believers. And because I love talking about myself 24/7. Why else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because I want an excuse to feel persecuted at the same time I'm abusing others, in this case believers. And because I love talking about myself 24/7. Why else?

very clever, you crafty believer you. Feeling persecuted? abused? because people who believe differently from you are talking about it? I'd think it would just make your faith stronger. That's what believers usually say when they're feeling a little shaky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because I want an excuse to feel persecuted at the same time I'm abusing others, in this case believers. And because I love talking about myself 24/7. Why else?

I admit. I feel a tinge of joy when some ignorant person of faith is so blatantly hypocritical. It doesn't offend me - it just cracks me up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I want an excuse to feel persecuted at the same time I'm abusing others, in this case believers. And because I love talking about myself 24/7. Why else?

I admit. I feel a tinge of joy when some ignorant person of faith is so blatantly hypocritical. It doesn't offend me - it just cracks me up!

Can someone explain why two atheists so far are incapable of understanding the irony in that post? Is it because many of you guys take yourselves too seriously and have no ability to laugh at yourselves?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I want an excuse to feel persecuted at the same time I'm abusing others, in this case believers. And because I love talking about myself 24/7. Why else?

I admit. I feel a tinge of joy when some ignorant person of faith is so blatantly hypocritical. It doesn't offend me - it just cracks me up!

Can someone explain why two atheists so far are incapable of understanding the irony in that post? Is it because many of you guys take yourselves too seriously and have no ability to laugh at yourselves?

That you don't see your own irony, is... curious.

[Anonymous]

Haha, love it! In a rare instance one of the atheist threads gets challenged instead of the usual pattern where you guys trash the religious threads. And your reaction is to prove 20:12's point by ... bashing believers.

Do some of you have just one default mode?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Haha, love it! In a rare instance one of the atheist threads gets challenged instead of the usual pattern where you guys trash the religious threads. And your reaction is to prove 20:12's point by ... bashing believers.

Do some of you have just one default mode?

so you acknowledge that believers can rarely challenge atheists? -- and react by acting ike the gloating atheist above?

but trashing and bashing -- I don't know -- it's harsh language and might describe the perception of people not used to having their beliefs challenged who presume, without evidence, that their beliefs are correct and unchallengable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haha, love it! In a rare instance one of the atheist threads gets challenged instead of the usual pattern where you guys trash the religious threads. And your reaction is to prove 20:12's point by ... bashing believers.

Do some of you have just one default mode?

so you acknowledge that believers can rarely challenge atheists? -- and react by acting ike the gloating atheist above?

but trashing and bashing -- I don't know -- it's harsh language and might describe the perception of people not used to having their beliefs challenged who presume, without evidence, that their beliefs are correct and unchallengable

Please don't twist my words. I said that believers usually DON'T challenge atheists. That's totally different from CAN'T. At least on DCUM, it seems like the believers are more tolerant of other views than many (not all) of the atheists.

[Anonymous]

Could we please not derail the thread with an argument over who is more sensitive and/or tolerant and who challenges whom more often and (in their own eyes) successfully?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Could we please not derail the thread with an argument over who is more sensitive and/or tolerant and who challenges whom more often and (in their own eyes) successfully?

That's another thing that happens to every religious thread... atheists derail them with rants about fairies and how I became an atheist in Catholic school. Seriously, some of you have absolutely no self-awareness. In this case I take the view that derailment is just a dose of your own medicine.

[Anonymous]

I'm an atheist because I have never seen any physical phenomenon that was not explainable through scientific methodology. I've never seen anything genuinely magical, nothing paranormal, nothing miraculous. I do not mean to say that I have never seen anything wonderful or awe-inspiring. The more complex things are, the more they inspire and intrigue me, whether it's a painting, a novel, a sunrise, or a snow-covered mountain. If a sculpture is amazing, I admire the artist. If a flower is beautiful, I don't admire God - I am amazed instead by the countless evolutionary processes that produced such an incredible object.

I used to want to believe in God or gods. Who wouldn't like there to be magic (although magic could do bad things as well as good). As I matured, however, I realized something - it didn't matter whether there was a God or not. Truthfully, if you did not believe in God, would you be a different person? Would you go out and kill people? Is that the only thing that's stopping you? Of course not. We all live together in a society, and our happiness is biologically dependent upon our living together harmoniously and acting, at times, altruistically. You would do the sames things, have the same goals, love the same people, if there was no God. What good is God then? If you are a good person, do good things, do you really think that if there is a God after all He wouldn't let you into heaven? Be a good person, help your community, and you will get your reward in this life and, if there is one, in the next. You don;t need God at all. Belief in God or non-belief is not a meaningful issue.

The real issue is religion. Lots of people believe in God or are "spiritual" but don't go to church or belong in a religion. What is a church/religion? Apart from a community of people - a community you could remain in or not regardless of whether you choose to believe in God - religion is about setting the rules. If you're Catholic, you must confess the acts the church says are sinful; if you're Muslim, you must fast during Ramadan - or else! If you pick and choose the rules you like (e.g., being a Catholic who uses birth control), then you're not really in the religion at all. Using the example above, you could be in the Catholic community and attend church and celebrate Christmas and Easter, but if you're not playing by the church's rules, then you are not really practicing that religion. We all have our own sense of right and wrong, and sometimes we believe it's moral to do something a religion says is wrong, or immoral to do something the religion says is right. Everyone picks and chooses. And, if you are not choosing for yourself, it only means you are letting others choose for you. Who are those people choosing for you - a Pope? an Imam? a Rabbi? And what happens if you are required to do something you feel is immoral - do you comply or resist at the risk of your immortal soul? This is where self-determination, free will, human instinct, and humanism MUST come into play. Take my advice - forget the church. Be the best person you can be, contribute to the wonderful world we live in, help those around you as you will rely upon them when you need help.

Make good choices and be a moral person, and you can forget about the rules of a specific religion and forget the issue of whether there is a God or not - none of that is helping you to be happy or be a positive member of society.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Make good choices and be a moral person, and you can forget about the rules of a specific religion and forget the issue of whether there is a God or not - none of that is helping you to be happy or be a positive member of society.

Well said.