Do Christians really believe Mary was a virgin?
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Anonymous
I prefer the whore, Mary Magdalene. girlfriend was REAL! |
Anonymous
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And the Catholic church is not a cult?
We chant in unison. We have blind faith - with NO proof. No, there is no evidence to show Mary was a virgin. We tithe. We ignore atrocities - pedophilia rings . . . We worship the pope, who's just a man. nope not a cult at all
So what are your thoughts on ol' Joe Smith or L. Ron Hubbard? Not the person that you were talking to but... Hubbard is demonstrably a fraud and a con man. Scientology is a dangerous cult. It's practices are appalling and should be illegal. Smith might have been a con and he might have been a prophet. He died for his religion, though, and his church has gone on to be a mainstream religious force, with both the upside and the downside of that. |
Anonymous
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Catholic Bishop here.
Actually, our teaching on Mary has evolved somewhat. We no longer claim that she was a virgin, but rather, that she was like a virgin. |
Anonymous
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Use the following metaphor to understand:
All muffins are baked goods Not all baked goods are muffins Catholics are muffins |
Anonymous
Right, that's the point. Why would two regular old teenagers who had sex, end up creating a god? I'm thinking they wouldn't. |
Anonymous
Who's being disrespectful? I'm sorry if others trying to use logic to explain things is "disrespectful" to you, but if your sensibilities are that delicate, you should probably avoid forums that include a wide variety of positions and viewpoints. That's why there's a cautionary message to try and not be easily offended, when it comes to this forum. Talking about Mary and Joseph having sex, and the union of his sperm and her egg as being a likely logical reason for Jesus's being, isn't "disrespectful" - it's a historical approach to understanding where a baby might come from. If this is "respectfulness" or crass or provocative or obnoxious to you, that's on you. For those that believe in a historical Jesus, Jesus was a mortal born of a human male and female. Really, you think that's provocative? Maybe your faith isn't as strong as you thought it was, if talking about where babies come from is difficult for you. |
Anonymous
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PP, fine, you think my religion is based on a lie. I get it. i suppose you wouldn't be offended if someone called atheists like you soulless and empty, then?
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Anonymous
The Magdalene wasn't a prostitute. According to the Gospels, Jesus drove seven demons from her and she became a disciple. There is no basis in Scripture for describing her as a prostitute. People who call her a prostitute are confusing her with the unnamed woman who washed Jesus' feet with perfume. There is no basis in the Gospel for putting them together as one person. |
Anonymous
How do you logically come to that conclusion? By what reasoning? But no, it doesn't offend me. I mean, "soul" is sort of a vague, quasi-religious term. But I'm confident and secure enough in my worldview to know that my life is very full. Your words don't bother me at all. |
Anonymous
You're trolling. The question under discussion is what Christians believe about Mary, not "what do atheists believe about Mary." |
Anonymous
FYI, not everyone that carries a position contrary to yours, is "trolling." Believe it or not, many Christians do not believe Jesus was born of a virgin mother. That isn't to say most Christians do, but many feel secure in their faith to not deny a logical possibility. Try not to be so closed minded. |
Anonymous
Cites or it didn't happen. You haven't been talking from a Christian perspective. You've been talking from an atheist perspective about what YOU (as an atheist) believe. No one cares. This isn't a discussion about atheism. Butting into this conversation just to evangelize atheism is as annoying as the Evangelical wingnut who wanted to say what Catholics believe. |
Anonymous
Try reading some of the many, many apocryphal texts that weren't canonized in the Bible. There are lots of variations on mainstream Christian theology. |
Anonymous
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Some believe that Mary was raped, or possibly conceived Jesus willingly before Joseph. But many Christians believe that Joseph is the biological father of Jesus, citing the canonized Bible as evidence.
Matthew 1:1-11 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. verse 1 clearly shows that Christ is of the lineage (ancestry, bloodline) of David, going back to Jacob (Israel), to Isaac, to Abraham. 2Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas (Judah) and his brethren; Shows Christ will be a descendant of the Tribe of Judah (Heb 7:14) And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: More ancestry is given until Christ is born Verse 15-16: And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. As we see JOSEPH the husband of Mary is included in the DIRECT genelogical ancestry of Christ. Adopted parents and step parents CANNOT be included in their step/adopted childrens DIRECT ancestry for they are not descendants. Lets examine the prophecy of Christ to come through the biological ancestry of King David. Samuel 7:12-17 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever. 17According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David. This prophecy speaks of the kingdom of Christ seeing all kings that came after David lost their throne. However this KING is said to come from David's seed (sperm, posterity) from his BOWELS (inwards or interior parts). This explains why Joseph is included in the ancestry of Christ and a direct descendant of David. Examine... Luke 2:4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David Examine Christ's claim to his lineage... Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; We see that Christ and Joseph are both descendants of David. The lineage of any nation is ALWAYS recognized by a patriarchal (male bloodline) system (according to the laws of YHWH) and not by a matricarchal (mothers bloodline). Hebrews 2:14-16 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. This account explains that Christ did not take on the image of the supernatural or any other "immaculate" means of entrance into the world but only the flesh and blood of his ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Judah and David and lastly Joseph. |
Anonymous
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What's bizarre, is that Mary was betrothed to someone that could have been her great grandfather. There was a 75-80 year age difference (Mary being 12/13, Joseph being 90) when Jesus was born.
Yet a lot of Christians like to point to Muhammad's relationship with Aisha as sickness. To me, they're both disgusting. I understand that such relationships were common in ancient times, but it's still gross. And yes, I get that some Christians believe Joseph and Mary never had sex. But if you're looking at the historical life of Jesus, and Biblical genealogy, Joseph is indeed Jesus's father. |