Alabama for free or a more elite school that is less than free-ride?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know two kids from the DC area who left 'Bama after the first semester/year. They couldn't get past the casual use of the N word or gay slurs by their fellow students.

You mean nabob or nincompoop?

The pp likely meant the word "nirvana." Guess those young people who left weren't open to diversity and the practicing Buddhists in Tuscaloosa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Retirement savings are not included in financial aid calculations.

The reality is that if a family is making the kind of income that qualifies them for no financial aid ($225,000 or above for a family of 4) at Harvard, then either they've been making that amount for a while, in which case they had the option of putting away significant amounts for college, or they just started making it recently, in which case they should be able to choose to put the extra towards tuition. That isn't to say that they should, or that it isn't a totally valid choice to buy a fancy house, or send your kids to private high school, or take them on nice vacations instead of savings for college. But families with incomes above $225,000 can afford college, barring something like a medical expense. They have choices available to them. Again, there's nothing wrong with deciding to spend your money on something else, and telling your child to go to 'Bama or in state or somewhere with merit aid, but acknowledge that it's a choice.

NP here. Who keeps bringing up Harvard? As in, "all your DC has to do is get into Harvard, and he'll get a full ride." Isn't it obvious that about 6% of applicants get into Harvard, stranding thousands of kids with perfect SATs and GPAs of 4.0? You probably also know that Harvard has the most generous endowment anywhere, so it can offer the most generous FA anywhere.

You know all this, right? For the rest of our kids, we are looking at schools with less generous endowments than Harvard and less generous FA than Harvard. (And I know you'll slam my slacker kid, so I'll say it now: my kid got into a school with a 7% acceptance rate. We are full pay.) You need to step out of your bubble and understand $225,000 is not all that much in the DMV area. A crappy house in downcounty MoCo costs $400k, which means $2500/month mortgage payments. Most of us should be saving $1000/month or more for retirement, so we're not relying on Social Security alone. If you bought your house in 1997 you're very lucky. Through in all the costs of raising a kid who can get into a selective school (sports teams, tutors), and most families on this budget are really strapped for cash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Retirement savings are not included in financial aid calculations.

The reality is that if a family is making the kind of income that qualifies them for no financial aid ($225,000 or above for a family of 4) at Harvard, then either they've been making that amount for a while, in which case they had the option of putting away significant amounts for college, or they just started making it recently, in which case they should be able to choose to put the extra towards tuition. That isn't to say that they should, or that it isn't a totally valid choice to buy a fancy house, or send your kids to private high school, or take them on nice vacations instead of savings for college. But families with incomes above $225,000 can afford college, barring something like a medical expense. They have choices available to them. Again, there's nothing wrong with deciding to spend your money on something else, and telling your child to go to 'Bama or in state or somewhere with merit aid, but acknowledge that it's a choice.

NP here. Who keeps bringing up Harvard? As in, "all your DC has to do is get into Harvard, and he'll get a full ride." Isn't it obvious that about 6% of applicants get into Harvard, stranding thousands of kids with perfect SATs and GPAs of 4.0? You probably also know that Harvard has the most generous endowment anywhere, so it can offer the most generous FA anywhere.

You know all this, right? For the rest of our kids, we are looking at schools with less generous endowments than Harvard and less generous FA than Harvard. (And I know you'll slam my slacker kid, so I'll say it now: my kid got into a school with a 7% acceptance rate. We are full pay.) You need to step out of your bubble and understand $225,000 is not all that much in the DMV area. A crappy house in downcounty MoCo costs $400k, which means $2500/month mortgage payments. Most of us should be saving $1000/month or more for retirement, so we're not relying on Social Security alone. If you bought your house in 1997 you're very lucky. Through in all the costs of raising a kid who can get into a selective school (sports teams, tutors), and most families on this budget are really strapped for cash.

PP again. I need to add: if we abandon the *unrealistic* expectation of a full ride at Harvard, even the most generous colleges max out on FA at $125,000. (In fact, I'm pretty sure Harvard maxes out on FA at $125,000, too, barring extenuating circumstances like multiple kids or family illnesses or disability, but I don't have time to check.) The vast majority of colleges max out on FA at much less than $125,000. Federal aid, like Pell grants, max out at $50k. That's $50k. Even $125,000 is not very much to live on in the DMV area.

[Anonymous]

^^^^ PP again. I need to add: if we abandon the *unrealistic* expectation of a full ride at Harvard, even the most generous colleges max out on FA at $125,000. (In fact, I'm pretty sure Harvard maxes out on FA at $125,000, too, barring extenuating circumstances like multiple kids or family illnesses or disability, but I don't have time to check.) The vast majority of colleges max out on FA at much less than $125,000. Federal aid, like Pell grants, max out at $50k. That's $50k. Even $125,000 is not very much to live on in the DMV area.

So please, stop already with the "Just tell him to go to Harvard, and he'll get a full ride" schtick.

[Anonymous]

If your kid gets into Harvard, you will probably get substantial financial aid. But that has not happened to OP. Her DS is being offered full ride at Alabama, which has nothing to do with Harvard. OP wait and see what else comes in. Everything depends on what other offers you get and where else DS is accepted. Nothing is really "free" It is a trade off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS has super-high test scores, GPA, etc. Alabama will give free ride for 10 semesters including grad school, pay a stipend of $3,500 a year, etc.

Financially, it is a no-brainer.

But, it is Alabama. DS would be a better fit at Columbia, Rice, Stanford, Berkeley, etc.

Thoughts?

If you don't get a comparable offer from a better institution, take the money. The gamble involved in going to Alabama is that your DC must excel academically. If that happens, your DC will be very attractive to grad schools (coming from Alabama - an underrepresented institution with superior credentials). Use the money you save on undergrad to fudn grad school (if necessary). If DC gets caught up in the social scene at Bama and doesn't excel academically, then DC may be working at Waffle Shop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Retirement savings are not included in financial aid calculations.

The reality is that if a family is making the kind of income that qualifies them for no financial aid ($225,000 or above for a family of 4) at Harvard, then either they've been making that amount for a while, in which case they had the option of putting away significant amounts for college, or they just started making it recently, in which case they should be able to choose to put the extra towards tuition. That isn't to say that they should, or that it isn't a totally valid choice to buy a fancy house, or send your kids to private high school, or take them on nice vacations instead of savings for college. But families with incomes above $225,000 can afford college, barring something like a medical expense. They have choices available to them. Again, there's nothing wrong with deciding to spend your money on something else, and telling your child to go to 'Bama or in state or somewhere with merit aid, but acknowledge that it's a choice.

NP here. Who keeps bringing up Harvard? As in, "all your DC has to do is get into Harvard, and he'll get a full ride." Isn't it obvious that about 6% of applicants get into Harvard, stranding thousands of kids with perfect SATs and GPAs of 4.0? You probably also know that Harvard has the most generous endowment anywhere, so it can offer the most generous FA anywhere.

You know all this, right? For the rest of our kids, we are looking at schools with less generous endowments than Harvard and less generous FA than Harvard. (And I know you'll slam my slacker kid, so I'll say it now: my kid got into a school with a 7% acceptance rate. We are full pay.) You need to step out of your bubble and understand $225,000 is not all that much in the DMV area. A crappy house in downcounty MoCo costs $400k, which means $2500/month mortgage payments. Most of us should be saving $1000/month or more for retirement, so we're not relying on Social Security alone. If you bought your house in 1997 you're very lucky. Through in all the costs of raising a kid who can get into a selective school (sports teams, tutors), and most families on this budget are really strapped for cash.

Thank you, this is EXACTLY correct.

It's terrific that Harvard covers so much of the cost for so many of its students. New flash: Only 0.03 percent of the nation's college students are at Harvard. That number approaches zero for all intents and purposes. What a silly, stupid discussion this is.

Chances are that this kid is looking at the difference between an almost free education and an education that will cost well north of $100,000, even if his family is "regular" middle class as opposed to "DC" middle class. If his family is DC middle class, that education could cost north of $200,000. If you value a certain kind of educational experience to the tune of $200,000, then go for it. But recognize that not everyone thinks a certain name on a diploma is worth $200,000, no matter how much you want them to. And definitely recognize that even the vaunted Harvard grad is likely to be making 'only' $60,000 a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Retirement savings are not included in financial aid calculations.

The reality is that if a family is making the kind of income that qualifies them for no financial aid ($225,000 or above for a family of 4) at Harvard, then either they've been making that amount for a while, in which case they had the option of putting away significant amounts for college, or they just started making it recently, in which case they should be able to choose to put the extra towards tuition. That isn't to say that they should, or that it isn't a totally valid choice to buy a fancy house, or send your kids to private high school, or take them on nice vacations instead of savings for college. But families with incomes above $225,000 can afford college, barring something like a medical expense. They have choices available to them. Again, there's nothing wrong with deciding to spend your money on something else, and telling your child to go to 'Bama or in state or somewhere with merit aid, but acknowledge that it's a choice.

NP here. Who keeps bringing up Harvard? As in, "all your DC has to do is get into Harvard, and he'll get a full ride." Isn't it obvious that about 6% of applicants get into Harvard, stranding thousands of kids with perfect SATs and GPAs of 4.0? You probably also know that Harvard has the most generous endowment anywhere, so it can offer the most generous FA anywhere.

You know all this, right? For the rest of our kids, we are looking at schools with less generous endowments than Harvard and less generous FA than Harvard. (And I know you'll slam my slacker kid, so I'll say it now: my kid got into a school with a 7% acceptance rate. We are full pay.) You need to step out of your bubble and understand $225,000 is not all that much in the DMV area. A crappy house in downcounty MoCo costs $400k, which means $2500/month mortgage payments. Most of us should be saving $1000/month or more for retirement, so we're not relying on Social Security alone. If you bought your house in 1997 you're very lucky. Through in all the costs of raising a kid who can get into a selective school (sports teams, tutors), and most families on this budget are really strapped for cash.

Thank you, this is EXACTLY correct.

It's terrific that Harvard covers so much of the cost for so many of its students. New flash: Only 0.03 percent of the nation's college students are at Harvard. That number approaches zero for all intents and purposes. What a silly, stupid discussion this is.

Chances are that this kid is looking at the difference between an almost free education and an education that will cost well north of $100,000, even if his family is "regular" middle class as opposed to "DC" middle class. If his family is DC middle class, that education could cost north of $200,000. If you value a certain kind of educational experience to the tune of $200,000, then go for it. But recognize that not everyone thinks a certain name on a diploma is worth $200,000, no matter how much you want them to. And definitely recognize that even the vaunted Harvard grad is likely to be making 'only' $60,000 a year.

^^Meant to add: I wouldn't send my teen to Alabama for free, because it would not be a good fit for him. (I withhold judgment about college "fit" for my younger kids.) But would I choose boatloads of aid at a place like the aforementioned Case Western over paying $200k at one of the "elite?" Absolutely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Retirement savings are not included in financial aid calculations.

The reality is that if a family is making the kind of income that qualifies them for no financial aid ($225,000 or above for a family of 4) at Harvard, then either they've been making that amount for a while, in which case they had the option of putting away significant amounts for college, or they just started making it recently, in which case they should be able to choose to put the extra towards tuition. That isn't to say that they should, or that it isn't a totally valid choice to buy a fancy house, or send your kids to private high school, or take them on nice vacations instead of savings for college. But families with incomes above $225,000 can afford college, barring something like a medical expense. They have choices available to them. Again, there's nothing wrong with deciding to spend your money on something else, and telling your child to go to 'Bama or in state or somewhere with merit aid, but acknowledge that it's a choice.

NP here. Who keeps bringing up Harvard? As in, "all your DC has to do is get into Harvard, and he'll get a full ride." Isn't it obvious that about 6% of applicants get into Harvard, stranding thousands of kids with perfect SATs and GPAs of 4.0? You probably also know that Harvard has the most generous endowment anywhere, so it can offer the most generous FA anywhere.

You know all this, right? For the rest of our kids, we are looking at schools with less generous endowments than Harvard and less generous FA than Harvard. (And I know you'll slam my slacker kid, so I'll say it now: my kid got into a school with a 7% acceptance rate. We are full pay.) You need to step out of your bubble and understand $225,000 is not all that much in the DMV area. A crappy house in downcounty MoCo costs $400k, which means $2500/month mortgage payments. Most of us should be saving $1000/month or more for retirement, so we're not relying on Social Security alone. If you bought your house in 1997 you're very lucky. Through in all the costs of raising a kid who can get into a selective school (sports teams, tutors), and most families on this budget are really strapped for cash.

Thank you, this is EXACTLY correct.

It's terrific that Harvard covers so much of the cost for so many of its students. New flash: Only 0.03 percent of the nation's college students are at Harvard. That number approaches zero for all intents and purposes. What a silly, stupid discussion this is.

Chances are that this kid is looking at the difference between an almost free education and an education that will cost well north of $100,000, even if his family is "regular" middle class as opposed to "DC" middle class. If his family is DC middle class, that education could cost north of $200,000. If you value a certain kind of educational experience to the tune of $200,000, then go for it. But recognize that not everyone thinks a certain name on a diploma is worth $200,000, no matter how much you want them to. And definitely recognize that even the vaunted Harvard grad is likely to be making 'only' $60,000 a year.

+1. This discussion is so inane. I don't know where the Harvard argument came from because OP never gave the impression it was within the realm of possibility for her DC. It's not worth even weighing the Alabama ride until all options come in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS has super-high test scores, GPA, etc. Alabama will give free ride for 10 semesters including grad school, pay a stipend of $3,500 a year, etc.

Financially, it is a no-brainer.

But, it is Alabama. DS would be a better fit at Columbia, Rice, Stanford, Berkeley, etc.

Thoughts?

If you don't get a comparable offer from a better institution, take the money. The gamble involved in going to Alabama is that your DC must excel academically. If that happens, your DC will be very attractive to grad schools (coming from Alabama - an underrepresented institution with superior credentials). Use the money you save on undergrad to fudn grad school (if necessary). If DC gets caught up in the social scene at Bama and doesn't excel academically, then DC may be working at Waffle Shop.

+1 You nailed it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if he wants to practice medicine or will do ROTC take the offer. Even law school (if he's a very good standardized test taker, a 3.8, 175 from Alabama will get you into a top 6 law school).

if he wants to work in prestige whore industries like strategy consulting (specifically McKinsey, BCG, Bain) or Investment Banking/Trading in NY/SF, then I would not take that offer.

What kid knows this going in as a freshman?????

in many countries, "kids" choose their profession when they are 18. not everyone gets to spend $200,000+ to figure out what she likes.

So, what country are we in?

and aren't there quite a few additional professions out there in the world besides investment banking and consulting???? (Who gives their kid only those options?!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if he wants to practice medicine or will do ROTC take the offer. Even law school (if he's a very good standardized test taker, a 3.8, 175 from Alabama will get you into a top 6 law school).

if he wants to work in prestige whore industries like strategy consulting (specifically McKinsey, BCG, Bain) or Investment Banking/Trading in NY/SF, then I would not take that offer.

What kid knows this going in as a freshman?????

in many countries, "kids" choose their profession when they are 18. not everyone gets to spend $200,000+ to figure out what she likes.

So, what country are we in?

and aren't there quite a few additional professions out there in the world besides investment banking and consulting???? (Who gives their kid only those options?!)

We are in the US but the point remains that 18yo can be expected to choose a profession. There are quite a few other possibilities, I didn't write that part.

[Anonymous]

The corollary is that if OP's DC wants to go into theater, fine arts, not-for-profit work or even maybe teaching, he should take the Bama offer. He would have a hard time paying off massive student loans in these professions. But I agree he should wait for all the offers to come in.

[Anonymous]

In response to PP, you seem to be treating schools as fungible. Whether it would make sense to go to Alabama for fine arts etc will depend, at least in part, on the quality of the program at Alabama in those fields. School quality, prestige etc is not fungible and for a kid from MD, graduating from Alabama without any job prospect might make that student loan debt from a better school look pretty sweet.

[Anonymous]

Gosh, this devolved into a nasty thread. OP, if I were you I would see where else he gets in and what the aid packages are. Then have him visit, and see if he would be happy at Alabama (being happy socially and feeling academically challenged is important--if you're depressed it's hard to kick ass at school). I wouldn't necessarily immediately accept a free ride at Alabama over other schools if it were financially doable for my family--to me the value of a good education is unquantifiable, although you need to be realistic about what your family can do financially. I also know that the peer group is very important--perhaps the honors college might have a good peer group, but there is something to be said for schools that attract bright people from all over the country, and Alabama, most people are going to be in state. The classes, even into classes, for all people say are NOT equivalent. My friend who went to MIT went over concepts that a typical state school wouldn't go into until junior year in her general chemistry class. So perhaps have him shadow a class on his visit.

Then after you have all the information, make an educated decision. And congratulations for having a son who is bright enough to have all these options!