Why rankings are bunk

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting interview from the guy who oversees the rankings:

http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2012/10/19/us-news-rankings-editor-talks-duke-recent-trends

"acceptance rate counts only 1.5 percent in the final score" - so much for gaming the rankings by lowering the acceptance rate.

According to the New Yorker article in OP's original post, "selectivity" has a weight of 15%.

Apples and oranges. Acceptance rate is one factor (say 10%) of selectivity (which is say 15% of overall ranking), so acceptance rate is 0.10 x 0.15 or 1.5% of overall ranking. I don't know the exact weights given, but I'm guessing the guy who oversees the US News rankings has a pretty good handle on it.

I doubt very much the acceptance rate is only 10% of selectivity. What is the other 90%? Maybe matriculation rates and ... What else?Unless you can actually document this 10% weight within the selectivity component of the index, the fact that the math conveniently works out for your point isn't enough.

[Anonymous]

The biggest component of the US News formula is the "peer assessment." You can bet those peers factor acceptance rate in heavily into their subjective opinions.

[Anonymous]

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2012/09/11/methodology-undergraduate-ranking-criteria-and-weights-2

"Selectivity" is 15%, broken down into various components. "Reputation" is a whopping 25%. Such a large percentage for such a squishy element. Things not measured:

1. Advising system.
2. Atmosphere -- competitive, cold or supportive?
3. Number of students who go on to Phd programs.
4. Is a thesis required?

I realize numbers 3 and 4 are more particular to my DC, but thats the point. Maybe your DC wants to go to medical school, and that would be a good measure for him/her. Maybe they want a top notch international exchange program. I can tell you from looking that most of the highest ranked schools don't require a thesis, and I believe a thesis requirement is absolutely a sign of academic rigor. My point is that they've chosen some random factors that may not be the factors you would choose.

Number 2 is impossible to quantify and is the most important element for choosing a college. A student spends 4 years at the place and if its a miserable place -- and some highly ranked schools have that reputation -- it isn't worth it. You can get an excellent college education and be happy. Isn't that what we all want for our children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2012/09/11/methodology-undergraduate-ranking-criteria-and-weights-2

"Selectivity" is 15%, broken down into various components. "Reputation" is a whopping 25%. Such a large percentage for such a squishy element. Things not measured:

1. Advising system.
2. Atmosphere -- competitive, cold or supportive?
3. Number of students who go on to Phd programs.
4. Is a thesis required?

I realize numbers 3 and 4 are more particular to my DC, but thats the point. Maybe your DC wants to go to medical school, and that would be a good measure for him/her. Maybe they want a top notch international exchange program. I can tell you from looking that most of the highest ranked schools don't require a thesis, and I believe a thesis requirement is absolutely a sign of academic rigor. My point is that they've chosen some random factors that may not be the factors you would choose.

Number 2 is impossible to quantify and is the most important element for choosing a college. A student spends 4 years at the place and if its a miserable place -- and some highly ranked schools have that reputation -- it isn't worth it. You can get an excellent college education and be happy. Isn't that what we all want for our children?

which highly ranked schools have a reputation for being a miserable place? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2012/09/11/methodology-undergraduate-ranking-criteria-and-weights-2

"Selectivity" is 15%, broken down into various components. "Reputation" is a whopping 25%. Such a large percentage for such a squishy element. Things not measured:

1. Advising system.
2. Atmosphere -- competitive, cold or supportive?
3. Number of students who go on to Phd programs.
4. Is a thesis required?

I realize numbers 3 and 4 are more particular to my DC, but thats the point. Maybe your DC wants to go to medical school, and that would be a good measure for him/her. Maybe they want a top notch international exchange program. I can tell you from looking that most of the highest ranked schools don't require a thesis, and I believe a thesis requirement is absolutely a sign of academic rigor. My point is that they've chosen some random factors that may not be the factors you would choose.

Number 2 is impossible to quantify and is the most important element for choosing a college. A student spends 4 years at the place and if its a miserable place -- and some highly ranked schools have that reputation -- it isn't worth it. You can get an excellent college education and be happy. Isn't that what we all want for our children?

which highly ranked schools have a reputation for being a miserable place? Thanks.

Hopkins and CMU are not all that happy of places. U.Chicago has a massive rep for being hell as well. Harvard isn't the bastion of great student life either. I've heard the same about Columbia.

My sibling goes to AWS and can't wait to leave (absolutely despises it).

[Anonymous]

I've heard the same about Hopkins. I've also heard that Swarthmore is unpleasant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2012/09/11/methodology-undergraduate-ranking-criteria-and-weights-2

"Selectivity" is 15%, broken down into various components. "Reputation" is a whopping 25%. Such a large percentage for such a squishy element. Things not measured:

1. Advising system.
2. Atmosphere -- competitive, cold or supportive?
3. Number of students who go on to Phd programs.
4. Is a thesis required?

I realize numbers 3 and 4 are more particular to my DC, but thats the point. Maybe your DC wants to go to medical school, and that would be a good measure for him/her. Maybe they want a top notch international exchange program. I can tell you from looking that most of the highest ranked schools don't require a thesis, and I believe a thesis requirement is absolutely a sign of academic rigor. My point is that they've chosen some random factors that may not be the factors you would choose.

Number 2 is impossible to quantify and is the most important element for choosing a college. A student spends 4 years at the place and if its a miserable place -- and some highly ranked schools have that reputation -- it isn't worth it. You can get an excellent college education and be happy. Isn't that what we all want for our children?

which highly ranked schools have a reputation for being a miserable place? Thanks.

Hopkins and CMU are not all that happy of places. U.Chicago has a massive rep for being hell as well. Harvard isn't the bastion of great student life either. I've heard the same about Columbia.

My sibling goes to AWS and can't wait to leave (absolutely despises it).

So sad. College should be an enjoyable experience. Many say their college days were the best years of their lives. Why not? There are so any choices and opportunities. Those who diminish schools that offer a vibrant social life miss the point - you can get a terrific education AND have fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2012/09/11/methodology-undergraduate-ranking-criteria-and-weights-2

"Selectivity" is 15%, broken down into various components. "Reputation" is a whopping 25%. Such a large percentage for such a squishy element. Things not measured:

1. Advising system.
2. Atmosphere -- competitive, cold or supportive?
3. Number of students who go on to Phd programs.
4. Is a thesis required?

I realize numbers 3 and 4 are more particular to my DC, but thats the point. Maybe your DC wants to go to medical school, and that would be a good measure for him/her. Maybe they want a top notch international exchange program. I can tell you from looking that most of the highest ranked schools don't require a thesis, and I believe a thesis requirement is absolutely a sign of academic rigor. My point is that they've chosen some random factors that may not be the factors you would choose.

Number 2 is impossible to quantify and is the most important element for choosing a college. A student spends 4 years at the place and if its a miserable place -- and some highly ranked schools have that reputation -- it isn't worth it. You can get an excellent college education and be happy. Isn't that what we all want for our children?

which highly ranked schools have a reputation for being a miserable place? Thanks.

Hopkins and CMU are not all that happy of places. U.Chicago has a massive rep for being hell as well. Harvard isn't the bastion of great student life either. I've heard the same about Columbia.

My sibling goes to AWS and can't wait to leave (absolutely despises it).

So sad. College should be an enjoyable experience. Many say their college days were the best years of their lives. Why not? There are so any choices and opportunities. Those who diminish schools that offer a vibrant social life miss the point - you can get a terrific education AND have fun.

O.K., any recommendations that fit these two criteria? Thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2012/09/11/methodology-undergraduate-ranking-criteria-and-weights-2

"Selectivity" is 15%, broken down into various components. "Reputation" is a whopping 25%. Such a large percentage for such a squishy element. Things not measured:

1. Advising system.
2. Atmosphere -- competitive, cold or supportive?
3. Number of students who go on to Phd programs.
4. Is a thesis required?

I realize numbers 3 and 4 are more particular to my DC, but thats the point. Maybe your DC wants to go to medical school, and that would be a good measure for him/her. Maybe they want a top notch international exchange program. I can tell you from looking that most of the highest ranked schools don't require a thesis, and I believe a thesis requirement is absolutely a sign of academic rigor. My point is that they've chosen some random factors that may not be the factors you would choose.

Number 2 is impossible to quantify and is the most important element for choosing a college. A student spends 4 years at the place and if its a miserable place -- and some highly ranked schools have that reputation -- it isn't worth it. You can get an excellent college education and be happy. Isn't that what we all want for our children?

which highly ranked schools have a reputation for being a miserable place? Thanks.

Hopkins and CMU are not all that happy of places. U.Chicago has a massive rep for being hell as well. Harvard isn't the bastion of great student life either. I've heard the same about Columbia.

My sibling goes to AWS and can't wait to leave (absolutely despises it).

well the people who go to those places don't go there for the social life. I have to think they know exactly what they're getting into. I have seen on the various boards complaints that schools have too much partying and lack serious students. I'm sure all those you listed are highly highly selective despite their reputation for lacking fun.

Also, what is AWS?

[Anonymous]

^ kind of unfair and disingenuous really to criticize science and engineering schools as not being fun. Maybe an LAC, ok, that might be a consideration.
As far as Harvard. Really? Tell me your kid got in but turned it down because the social life isn't that great. I would have to call BS on that one.
My guess is it is a moot point for most of those schools named since your DC isn't getting into them anyway. I am reminded of the fable of the sour grapes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ kind of unfair and disingenuous really to criticize science and engineering schools as not being fun. Maybe an LAC, ok, that might be a consideration.
As far as Harvard. Really? Tell me your kid got in but turned it down because the social life isn't that great. I would have to call BS on that one.
My guess is it is a moot point for most of those schools named since your DC isn't getting into them anyway. I am reminded of the fable of the sour grapes.

Not PP, but go on College Confidential and you will see people turning Harvard down all the time. Harvard's matriculation rate is somewhere between 76% and 88% according to Dr. Google. Kids who get into Harvard tend to have other good choices. And the stuff about sour grapes was beneath you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ kind of unfair and disingenuous really to criticize science and engineering schools as not being fun. Maybe an LAC, ok, that might be a consideration.
As far as Harvard. Really? Tell me your kid got in but turned it down because the social life isn't that great. I would have to call BS on that one.
My guess is it is a moot point for most of those schools named since your DC isn't getting into them anyway. I am reminded of the fable of the sour grapes.

Both Hopkins and CMU actually have fantastic humanities programs as well. Our DC was looking into them for just that reason, before finding out that atmosphere is just too unpleasant.

As far as school with both an excellent atmosphere and great education, there are many, too many to mention. A lot has to do with the fit. A preppy kid might be unhappy at a crunchy school and ice versa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2012/09/11/methodology-undergraduate-ranking-criteria-and-weights-2

"Selectivity" is 15%, broken down into various components. "Reputation" is a whopping 25%. Such a large percentage for such a squishy element. Things not measured:

1. Advising system.
2. Atmosphere -- competitive, cold or supportive?
3. Number of students who go on to Phd programs.
4. Is a thesis required?

I realize numbers 3 and 4 are more particular to my DC, but thats the point. Maybe your DC wants to go to medical school, and that would be a good measure for him/her. Maybe they want a top notch international exchange program. I can tell you from looking that most of the highest ranked schools don't require a thesis, and I believe a thesis requirement is absolutely a sign of academic rigor. My point is that they've chosen some random factors that may not be the factors you would choose.

Number 2 is impossible to quantify and is the most important element for choosing a college. A student spends 4 years at the place and if its a miserable place -- and some highly ranked schools have that reputation -- it isn't worth it. You can get an excellent college education and be happy. Isn't that what we all want for our children?

which highly ranked schools have a reputation for being a miserable place? Thanks.

Hopkins and CMU are not all that happy of places. U.Chicago has a massive rep for being hell as well. Harvard isn't the bastion of great student life either. I've heard the same about Columbia.

My sibling goes to AWS and can't wait to leave (absolutely despises it).

So sad. College should be an enjoyable experience. Many say their college days were the best years of their lives. Why not? There are so any choices and opportunities. Those who diminish schools that offer a vibrant social life miss the point - you can get a terrific education AND have fun.

O.K., any recommendations that fit these two criteria? Thanks

People have different notions of FUN, but to take two extremes, there are eight schools that are in BOTH the TOP 50 of US News rankings and the TOP 50 Party schools: USC, UVA, UNC, Michigan, Wisconsin, UCSB, Texas and Miami.