Is algebra necessary for ALL?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody here ever said everyone should become petroleum engineers or software developers. But it's sad that we shut those doors to so many American kids by being so lackluster on providing a wide set of skills to let them keep their options, choices and possibilities open, such that good paying jobs either go unfilled, or get filled by software developers and engineers brought in from India and China while condemning our own kids to options not much better than minimum wage jobs mopping floors and stocking shelves.

SO you can't think of any other professions or occupations besides STEM and mopping floors or stocking shelves. You do need to check out the BLS website.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It astonishes me that so many people want to turn high school/college into the equivalent of vocational training. "Oh, you want to be an english major? No need for math!" Yeah, 16 yos never change their minds, and it's not at all important for them to exercise different portions of their brains.

Actually, it is the "you must all master higher math" people that think education is strictly for job training. They think everyone needs to study STEM so that they can become petroleum engineers and software developers.

Nobody here ever said everyone should become petroleum engineers or software developers. But it's sad that we shut those doors to so many American kids by being so lackluster on providing a wide set of skills to let them keep their options, choices and possibilities open, such that good paying jobs either go unfilled, or get filled by software developers and engineers brought in from India and China while condemning our own kids to options not much better than minimum wage jobs mopping floors and stocking shelves.

You need to be able to at least add and subtract to stock shelves... so many DCPS grads wouldn't even qualify for that job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You need to be able to at least add and subtract to stock shelves... so many DCPS grads wouldn't even qualify for that job.

What is your data to support this statement?

[Anonymous]

Scene "In Peggy Sue Got Married". LOL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Scene "In Peggy Sue Got Married". LOL!

I remember that so well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You need to be able to at least add and subtract to stock shelves... so many DCPS grads wouldn't even qualify for that job.

What is your data to support this statement?

Those of you who keep insisting people don't need basic math proficiency and in many cases algebra must be living under a rock. It's pretty clear to most of us who've been out in the job market, who've worked many different kinds of jobs, who've run many different kinds of business, who've hired and managed people working in many different roles - that you are totally clueless and completely unqualified to even be participating in this debate when you persist in making ridiculous comments like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You need to be able to at least add and subtract to stock shelves... so many DCPS grads wouldn't even qualify for that job.

What is your data to support this statement?

Where's the data? Start with DC-CAS which shows horrendously low math proficiency for many DCPS schools. And, in turn, the direct empirical evidence is that if you've ever tried working with some of the grads from those schools you find that it's not just the test, they actually don't have functional math skills.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]Scene "In Peggy Sue Got Married". LOL![/quote]

That scene is precisely the kind of nonsense that holds women back. It's like the Barbie doll saying "Math is hard." I hated that story so bad that I've been telling my kids "math is easy" from birth. Guess what they excel at most? Math. A good attitude is half the battle.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Scene "In Peggy Sue Got Married". LOL![/quote]

That scene is precisely the kind of nonsense that holds women back. It's like the Barbie doll saying "Math is hard." I hated that story so bad that I've been telling my kids "math is easy" from birth. Guess what they excel at most? Math. A good attitude is half the battle.[/quote]
20:15 here. "Much", not "bad." Sorry!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You need to be able to at least add and subtract to stock shelves... so many DCPS grads wouldn't even qualify for that job.

What is your data to support this statement?

Where's the data? Start with DC-CAS which shows horrendously low math proficiency for many DCPS schools. And, in turn, the direct empirical evidence is that if you've ever tried working with some of the grads from those schools you find that it's not just the test, they actually don't have functional math skills.

First of all, horrendously low math proficiency on the DC-CAS doesn't mean that students can't count or add and subtract.

Second, have you worked with some of these grads?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Should every single kid be required to take algebra to graduate from high school? No. Should any college - anywhere - accept a kid who has not taken algebra? no. I don't care if you intend to be a poetry major, in order to matriculate into college you shodul have taken, and passed, the first step, and fundamental buildign block, of higher math. Even if you don't use it in your field (and more people use it than they think - as a PP said, life is not divided into simple x and y equations, it's more subtle than that), algebra teaches logical reasoning and basic problem solving, and makes a more well-rounded student.

It astonishes me that so many people want to turn high school/college into the equivalent of vocational training. "Oh, you want to be an english major? No need for math!" Yeah, 16 yos never change their minds, and it's not at all important for them to exercise different portions of their brains.

PP: The issue being debated in education is not whether kids take algebra 1: it's about Algebra 2. And it's not about not requiring math, it's about which math. This is not a math/no math issue.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Should every single kid be required to take algebra to graduate from high school? No. Should any college - anywhere - accept a kid who has not taken algebra? no. I don't care if you intend to be a poetry major, in order to matriculate into college you shodul have taken, and passed, the first step, and fundamental buildign block, of higher math. Even if you don't use it in your field (and more people use it than they think - as a PP said, life is not divided into simple x and y equations, it's more subtle than that), algebra teaches logical reasoning and basic problem solving, and makes a more well-rounded student.

It astonishes me that so many people want to turn high school/college into the equivalent of vocational training. "Oh, you want to be an english major? No need for math!" Yeah, 16 yos never change their minds, and it's not at all important for them to exercise different portions of their brains. [/quote]

PP: The issue being debated in education is not whether kids take algebra 1: it's about Algebra 2. And it's not about not requiring math, it's about which math. This is not a math/no math issue. [/quote]

True. So, in a world where the US is slipping in math and science proficiency and other countries are zooming ahead of ours, the question should be reframed: not whether Algebra 2 is too much, but whether it's too little? Maybe we need to go much, much further. If you believe that education is linked to prosperity, then more is needed, not less. Mediocrity won't help our country or its citizens; it'll drown us.

[Anonymous]

Too much? It's obviously not too much for the rest of the world, and they've started going past us academically and economically.

It's definitely too little but it's getting increasingly obvious that there are education operatives who don't want to be held accountable for it.

We're rapidly becoming a country where we are incapable of doing anything for ourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Too much? It's obviously not too much for the rest of the world, and they've started going past us academically and economically.

It's definitely too little but it's getting increasingly obvious that there are education operatives who don't want to be held accountable for it.

We're rapidly becoming a country where we are incapable of doing anything for ourselves.

OMG the sky is falling down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too much? It's obviously not too much for the rest of the world, and they've started going past us academically and economically.

It's definitely too little but it's getting increasingly obvious that there are education operatives who don't want to be held accountable for it.

We're rapidly becoming a country where we are incapable of doing anything for ourselves.

OMG the sky is falling down

Here's some perspective:

The US is falling behind other countries in terms of R&D, science, innovation and technology - we used to be the world's leader, the world's most advanced country, now we're fast on our way to second-rate irrelevance. Americans no longer pursue STEM fields in meaningful numbers. These days, it's getting to where a large percentage of people in the STEM field in the US are foreigners who came to the US on visa. These days it takes fewer credits to get an engineering degree in the US than it did in our parent's time - even though engineering has become more complex and deep with new developments - but less is covered in the coursework than what their predecessors had. And even there, university professors lament how woefully underprepared many incoming students are, even those who came from "good" schools with high grade point averages.

And that's all because of the continued dumbing down of the curriculum in the US.

Evidently some people just don't give a damn if the US degenerates into being a third-world nation.