Sidwell college guidance office

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI regarding safety schools: some mid level schools do not automaticlly accept students that are way above their typical profile because those students do not usually enroll. If they do, they often transfer out quickly. These mid level schools want to admit students that are likely to attend and stay. If a student is above the normal admissions profile of their safety school, then they should show interest in the school by visiting, calling, or e-mailing and asking about an honors program. If this interest is not demonstrated, then don't be surprised if they are not offered admissions. I know this because DH works in academic administration at a mid level university.

I have studied Naviance for our school and this is definitely true. At one college I looked at the applicants with the highest GPAs/scores were waitlisted/rejected while the kids in the next tier down were accepted. I suspect they were ones who also didn't visit or show much interest in the school because it was a safety.

To me, that suggests there is some good wisdom in limiting applications to under 10 schools. That way, students areole likely to submit quality applications rather than just relying on quantity of applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's crazy for a school to limit the number of colleges a student can apply to. Today, getting in is totally random. You may not get into Duke, but happen to get into Harvard. The kids who apply to as many schools as possible (so long as they can put their heart and soul into each of the essays) has the best chance of winning the lottery that is today's college admissions process.

If every kid did this, then the odds of admission would go down even further for every kid. It would be mutually assured self-destruction.

+1 -- The problem at Sidwell is not the limit on the number of applications; the problem is that the counselors pretend that strategic considerations don't exist -- instead of helping kids and parents figure out a strategy, including choosing safeties that kids can live with. The result: one-quarter of the class applies to Michigan and one-quarter to Tufts (with a significant overlap here among students falling in the middle-quarter of the grade). MADness.

Just to be sure I understand - Michigan and Tufts are seen as safeties? Because neither is a sure bet for the kid in the middle of any school's distribution. Especially if 20-25 other kids from the same school are also applying....

I wonder if the counselors deserve all the blame, or if some blame should fall on the families. The parents are thinking, "Hey, my kid already beat 1/12 odds to get into Sidwell, and what with having the Obamas' school on his application, he should be a shoe-in for Harvard." Then the counselor chickens out, doesn't stand up to the parents, doesn't point out this is unrealistic, and doesn't urge the kid to find some safeties to love....

[Anonymous]

Sidwell asks kids for a list of possible schools, then plugs them inti a Naviance type grid based on GPA and scores. For our recent grad it was very accurate and convinced him to think harder about real safeties.

As for Michigan and Tufts, they are immensely popular, and Michigan at least is seen as reach/realistic/safety depending on the student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell asks kids for a list of possible schools, then plugs them inti a Naviance type grid based on GPA and scores. For our recent grad it was very accurate and convinced him to think harder about real safeties.

As for Michigan and Tufts, they are immensely popular, and Michigan at least is seen as reach/realistic/safety depending on the student.

The Naviance grid information is not complete because it's based only on scores and GPA, thus it's not always accurate. We have 2 recent Sidwell grads for whom the grid prediction was completely wrong. They were both accepted at their first choice school, which Naviance and their counselor said they would never get into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The Naviance grid information is not complete because it's based only on scores and GPA, thus it's not always accurate. We have 2 recent Sidwell grads for whom the grid prediction was completely wrong. They were both accepted at their first choice school, which Naviance and their counselor said they would never get into.

You're absolutely right, Naviance and similar programs won't tell you which kid was accepted with a low GPA but was a legacy or athletic recruit. It can't, for privacy reasons, because people would be able to identify individual kids that way. Imagine seeing that two kids got into UPenn last year, and if Naviance tells you that one of the two was an athletic recruit, then pretty soon everybody is talking about the SATs and GPA of John the athletic recruit.

The thing is, it's the counselor's entire job to know these things, and to steer families away from the dot representing John with a generic "this student brought something special to the table."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The Naviance grid information is not complete because it's based only on scores and GPA, thus it's not always accurate. We have 2 recent Sidwell grads for whom the grid prediction was completely wrong. They were both accepted at their first choice school, which Naviance and their counselor said they would never get into.

You're absolutely right, Naviance and similar programs won't tell you which kid was accepted with a low GPA but was a legacy or athletic recruit. It can't, for privacy reasons, because people would be able to identify individual kids that way. Imagine seeing that two kids got into UPenn last year, and if Naviance tells you that one of the two was an athletic recruit, then pretty soon everybody is talking about the SATs and GPA of John the athletic recruit.

The thing is, it's the counselor's entire job to know these things, and to steer families away from the dot representing John with a generic "this student brought something special to the table."

Yes, that's exactly what the counselors should be doing, but they don't. There are at least a half-dozen SFS grads from the class of 2012 who are transferring this year, suggesting that those students did not receive helpful guidance regarding fit and/or likelihood of admission. Moreover, it also raises the questions of whether the counselors were effective in advocating for those students.

[Anonymous]

Well, college students in general are transferring a lot more than back in our day so I don't think half a dozen is that big a deal. But I agree that if they rely sole on Naviance they are doing students a disservice because of the kids with hooks.

[Anonymous]

Maybe those kids uptight parents steered them toward a specific name school only to realize that it wasn't a good fit and not worth being miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe those kids uptight parents steered them toward a specific name school only to realize that it wasn't a good fit and not worth being miserable.

Are you a Sidwell counselor? Or did you just drink their KoolAid?

[Anonymous]

When schools don't publish matriculation lists, parents often develop unrealistic expectations. As others have noted Naviance can be misleading, but when parents know the name of B average student who went to Harvard they are like to understand that it was a Special case without even being told.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe those kids uptight parents steered them toward a specific name school only to realize that it wasn't a good fit and not worth being miserable.

Are you a Sidwell counselor? Or did you just drink their KoolAid?

Sidwell counselors may or may not be lame, but I'd hope they know how to use apostrophes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When schools don't publish matriculation lists, parents often develop unrealistic expectations. As others have noted Naviance can be misleading, but when parents know the name of B average student who went to Harvard they are like to understand that it was a Special case without even being told.

My understanding is that parents are shown matriculation lists, either upon acceptance (this was a few years ago) or at other points in time. But Sidwell doesn't publish these lists on its website or school newspaper.

[Anonymous]

Parents aren't given matriculation lists by year. They are shown a list of "colleges our graduates have attended in the last few years" which is completely unhelpful.

If you spend any time on this site you can see how obsessed parents are with certain colleges. We all know the ones who spend years telling DC that s/he must go to school X. My point is that those pressures and expectations often lead to an unhappy college experience and may be an explanation for several transfers among Sidwell grads. I'd be curious how many grads from the other high powered schools end up transferring. I certainly don't think SFS students are any less well adjusted or prepared than other area students.
And no, I'm not in the SFS admin. And yes, I use apostrophes when I feel like it.

[Anonymous]

There will always be kids who decide to transfer, and that does not mean that the college counselor's have not done their job. The bigger concern is that so many Sidwell kids end up at their safeties, and those schools are not michigan and Tufts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents aren't given matriculation lists by year. They are shown a list of "colleges our graduates have attended in the last few years" which is completely unhelpful.

If you spend any time on this site you can see how obsessed parents are with certain colleges. We all know the ones who spend years telling DC that s/he must go to school X. My point is that those pressures and expectations often lead to an unhappy college experience and may be an explanation for several transfers among Sidwell grads. I'd be curious how many grads from the other high powered schools end up transferring. I certainly don't think SFS students are any less well adjusted or prepared than other area students.
And no, I'm not in the SFS admin. And yes, I use apostrophes when I feel like it.

Yes, of course, there are some parents at every school in the DC area -- public and private -- who have ridiculous expectations, but the vast majority of parents at Sidwell and at every other school in this area do not. They are simply looking for guidance from the counselors. This is not too much to expect at a school where there are 2.5 counselor positions for 125 students.

With respect to the students transferring: the ones with whom I'm familiar were not pressured by their parents to go to schools that were not a good fit. These students were not ill-prepared for college (obviously they did quite well if they were able to gain admission as transfer students), nor would I characterize them as not "well adjusted" (sic). (I trust that you also know how to use hyphens when you feel like it.)