A question about the actual students at Thomas Jefferson for anyone who has actually met them:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Assuming there are "goose families". If a family comes here from another country to attend high school, it is likely to be a very good high school. The kid will then attend a good/decent college and likely a graduate school here as well. if the kid attended high school, college & graduate school here, chances are he/she will want to stay in the U.S. after spending all those years including teenage years instead of returning to the native country. The family would certainly pay tuition and other costs for college and grad school after attending a "free high school".

This person is likely to be an educated person paying taxes and contributing to the economy/society instead of committing crimes or receiving government assistance. May even fill one of the STEM jobs that are in shortage according to many of the hi-tech companies and further contribute to the economic activities. May even create jobs.

Would you rather see someone come here and NOT study hard and commit crimes and receive assistance? You have to look at all sides and not just the "free high school" aspect. I think there are millions of illegal aliens who do not study as hard and may not become a productive tax paying member of our society. That should be more of a concern than relatively few number of high achieving high school students getting a free high school education.

also, they do not pay tuition at TJ as far as I know. If someone knows differently please chime in. Had they gone to a private school in the U.S., they would have paid tuition, but they don't. For some reason they choose the free public schools.

[Anonymous]

Would you rather see someone come here and NOT study hard and commit crimes and receive assistance? You have to look at all sides and not just the "free high school" aspect.

This is a straw argument --- there is no chance, none, that these particular people would come to the US and "not study hard." That's the only reason they're here -- to study hard, win a competitive spot in a limited seats school, and do better than the competition in order to get that seat.

That all sounds heart warming and apple pie, until you stop to reflect that 1. they aren't paying most taxes to the US/Virginia/Fairfax, and 2. they're not paying tuition (a fee) for that TJ seat and 3. this a zero sum game. If Seok Park, citizen of Seoul and S. Korea passport holder, gets seat #78 in the freshman class of 2015, that means by definition that US citizen and Fairfax-born Hye Soon Lee will not get seat #78. She has to go to her home school because her numbers weren't quite as good as Seok's.

So you see, this isn't an anti-Asian thing. It's an anti-carpetbagger thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Would you rather see someone come here and NOT study hard and commit crimes and receive assistance? You have to look at all sides and not just the "free high school" aspect.

This is a straw argument --- there is no chance, none, that these particular people would come to the US and "not study hard." That's the only reason they're here -- to study hard, win a competitive spot in a limited seats school, and do better than the competition in order to get that seat.

That all sounds heart warming and apple pie, until you stop to reflect that 1. they aren't paying most taxes to the US/Virginia/Fairfax, and 2. they're not paying tuition (a fee) for that TJ seat and 3. this a zero sum game. If Seok Park, citizen of Seoul and S. Korea passport holder, gets seat #78 in the freshman class of 2015, that means by definition that US citizen and Fairfax-born Hye Soon Lee will not get seat #78. She has to go to her home school because her numbers weren't quite as good as Seok's.

So you see, this isn't an anti-Asian thing. It's an anti-carpetbagger thing.

beautifully expressed, but the thing that irks me more is they don't stay here after graduating so this country, which gave them the (free) education, doesn't get the benefit thereof.

Quite disheartening that some find it "racist" to even mention this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you rather see someone come here and NOT study hard and commit crimes and receive assistance? You have to look at all sides and not just the "free high school" aspect.

This is a straw argument --- there is no chance, none, that these particular people would come to the US and "not study hard." That's the only reason they're here -- to study hard, win a competitive spot in a limited seats school, and do better than the competition in order to get that seat.

That all sounds heart warming and apple pie, until you stop to reflect that 1. they aren't paying most taxes to the US/Virginia/Fairfax, and 2. they're not paying tuition (a fee) for that TJ seat and 3. this a zero sum game. If Seok Park, citizen of Seoul and S. Korea passport holder, gets seat #78 in the freshman class of 2015, that means by definition that US citizen and Fairfax-born Hye Soon Lee will not get seat #78. She has to go to her home school because her numbers weren't quite as good as Seok's.

So you see, this isn't an anti-Asian thing. It's an anti-carpetbagger thing.

beautifully expressed, but the thing that irks me more is they don't stay here after graduating so this country, which gave them the (free) education, doesn't get the benefit thereof.

Quite disheartening that some find it "racist" to even mention this issue.

I am so tired of the racist arguement. They are cheating the system. When you meet the "goose" families it is not the pretty picture. They are completely racist -- they are here to get ahead --whatever it takes. If a little cheating is needed, they do it. Remember the scheme is not an honest one in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming there are "goose families". If a family comes here from another country to attend high school, it is likely to be a very good high school. The kid will then attend a good/decent college and likely a graduate school here as well. if the kid attended high school, college & graduate school here, chances are he/she will want to stay in the U.S. after spending all those years including teenage years instead of returning to the native country. The family would certainly pay tuition and other costs for college and grad school after attending a "free high school".

This person is likely to be an educated person paying taxes and contributing to the economy/society instead of committing crimes or receiving government assistance. May even fill one of the STEM jobs that are in shortage according to many of the hi-tech companies and further contribute to the economic activities. May even create jobs.

Would you rather see someone come here and NOT study hard and commit crimes and receive assistance? You have to look at all sides and not just the "free high school" aspect. I think there are millions of illegal aliens who do not study as hard and may not become a productive tax paying member of our society. That should be more of a concern than relatively few number of high achieving high school students getting a free high school education.

Assuming? Google it. One poster on here who said he/she is Korean said he/she knew two kids like this.
The rest of the post is just wrong. They go back to Korea. When asked why they do this the parents usually said their kids got a leg up in the corporate world in Korea where a US high school education is valued.

Actually it is the college education and grad school education that is valued. Most of those kids come to the US so that they can gain entrance into a good college. Other options are to attend Seoul Foreign School or boarding school in the US. The ultimate goal is a top university.

Most Koreans would be disappointed at UVA. Sure, they go there in bulk but I assure you they are disappointed. UVA will have little to no prestige in Korea.

[Anonymous]

What is the issue with kids coming here to attend good colleges? They pay tuition and fees to attend and in fact colleges want international students since they pay out of state tuition (in case of Public Universities).
In case of Asians, they claim discrimination against them in college admissions at top colleges due to affirmative action for AA and Hispanics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming there are "goose families". If a family comes here from another country to attend high school, it is likely to be a very good high school. The kid will then attend a good/decent college and likely a graduate school here as well. if the kid attended high school, college & graduate school here, chances are he/she will want to stay in the U.S. after spending all those years including teenage years instead of returning to the native country. The family would certainly pay tuition and other costs for college and grad school after attending a "free high school".

This person is likely to be an educated person paying taxes and contributing to the economy/society instead of committing crimes or receiving government assistance. May even fill one of the STEM jobs that are in shortage according to many of the hi-tech companies and further contribute to the economic activities. May even create jobs.

Would you rather see someone come here and NOT study hard and commit crimes and receive assistance? You have to look at all sides and not just the "free high school" aspect. I think there are millions of illegal aliens who do not study as hard and may not become a productive tax paying member of our society. That should be more of a concern than relatively few number of high achieving high school students getting a free high school education.

Assuming? Google it. One poster on here who said he/she is Korean said he/she knew two kids like this.
The rest of the post is just wrong. They go back to Korea. When asked why they do this the parents usually said their kids got a leg up in the corporate world in Korea where a US high school education is valued.

Actually it is the college education and grad school education that is valued. Most of those kids come to the US so that they can gain entrance into a good college. Other options are to attend Seoul Foreign School or boarding school in the US. The ultimate goal is a top university.

Most Koreans would be disappointed at UVA. Sure, they go there in bulk but I assure you they are disappointed. UVA will have little to no prestige in Korea.

This post makes no sense. An international student can get into an American college without having gone to high school here. Just apply, get accepted and pay the tuition.

Then they stay to go to UVA even though they are disappointed by it and it has no prestige in Korea? That makes no sense whatsoever.

The whole rationale for being a goose family is that a U.S. education is valued in the corporate world in Korea. Why would they do it if our 2nd ranked public university has "no prestige in Korea?" Really nonsensical, IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the issue with kids coming here to attend good colleges? They pay tuition and fees to attend and in fact colleges want international students since they pay out of state tuition (in case of Public Universities).
In case of Asians, they claim discrimination against them in college admissions at top colleges due to affirmative action for AA and Hispanics.

I'll bite. When I was a kid, my parents always told me that I had to work extra hard because it is harder for Asians. I went to Harvard. I had many friends who had similar scores who got rejected by all the ivy league schools. I had plenty of white friends who were equally qualified who also got rejected by all the ivy league schools.

I don't think it is just with Asians. Plenty of white kids who are disgruntled when they hear of hispanic and black students with significantly lower scores taking a spot that could have been theirs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming there are "goose families". If a family comes here from another country to attend high school, it is likely to be a very good high school. The kid will then attend a good/decent college and likely a graduate school here as well. if the kid attended high school, college & graduate school here, chances are he/she will want to stay in the U.S. after spending all those years including teenage years instead of returning to the native country. The family would certainly pay tuition and other costs for college and grad school after attending a "free high school".

This person is likely to be an educated person paying taxes and contributing to the economy/society instead of committing crimes or receiving government assistance. May even fill one of the STEM jobs that are in shortage according to many of the hi-tech companies and further contribute to the economic activities. May even create jobs.

Would you rather see someone come here and NOT study hard and commit crimes and receive assistance? You have to look at all sides and not just the "free high school" aspect. I think there are millions of illegal aliens who do not study as hard and may not become a productive tax paying member of our society. That should be more of a concern than relatively few number of high achieving high school students getting a free high school education.

Assuming? Google it. One poster on here who said he/she is Korean said he/she knew two kids like this.
The rest of the post is just wrong. They go back to Korea. When asked why they do this the parents usually said their kids got a leg up in the corporate world in Korea where a US high school education is valued.

Actually it is the college education and grad school education that is valued. Most of those kids come to the US so that they can gain entrance into a good college. Other options are to attend Seoul Foreign School or boarding school in the US. The ultimate goal is a top university.

Most Koreans would be disappointed at UVA. Sure, they go there in bulk but I assure you they are disappointed. UVA will have little to no prestige in Korea.

This post makes no sense. An international student can get into an American college without having gone to high school here. Just apply, get accepted and pay the tuition.

Then they stay to go to UVA even though they are disappointed by it and it has no prestige in Korea? That makes no sense whatsoever.

The whole rationale for being a goose family is that a U.S. education is valued in the corporate world in Korea. Why would they do it if our 2nd ranked public university has "no prestige in Korea?" Really nonsensical, IMHO.

There is a big difference in speaking ability depending on when you actually first came to the US. If you come in junior high school, you can probably master a perfect American accent. If you come in college, you will most likely always sound like a foreigner.

If you are not Korean or don't hang out with Koreans, it will probably be difficult to understand the culture. In Korea, there are 3 elite schools (SKY), similar to HYP. The corporate world often does not recruit unless you attend SKY. It is FAR easier to do well in the US school system. With relative little effort (compared to how much you have to study in Korea to gain entrance to SKY), you should be able to get into a decent school (UVA). Whether you stay in America or return back to Korea, your chances to succeed has improved. In America, it is so easy to become a professional and earn a good living (accountant, dentist, doctor, engineer).

[Anonymous]

Hey Einsteins, they don't need to come here and go to TJ just to get into the Ivies. They get accepted in droves right from the prestigious High Schools in S. Korea.

Korean Minjok Leadership Academy South Korea South Korea 133 14 10.5%

higher acceptance rate than TJ!!!

Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology Alexandria Va. 428 39 9.1%

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Man, I wish many of Xenophobes here would go back to their Tea Party rallies with their ridiculous conspiracy theories about how their tax dollars are being wasted...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In your educated opinion .... what percentage of the entering TJ kids would you say moved to the United States only within the last year or so? And, is this becoming more common?

Put another way, what percentage of successful applicants do most of their preparation in another country (their native country), then move to the US just before application season begins? ie, in enough time to get a legitimate written recommendation from that year's teacher, as is required, but having spent most of the first 13.5 years of life in _[name of foreign country here]___
I can read the published demographic stats just like you can, so I'm not asking to be pointed to mere numbers (such as, 'this year, 66% of the entering class is Asian.')

Your "problem" has a lot in common with the Tea Party's "Voter Fraud" issue. They are both non-existent!!!

[Anonymous]

Actually, there are posters here who know families in real life at TJ who are doing this. In addition, people posted links to newspaper articles describing the practice of families separating specifically so children could go to school in a different country, complete with interviews and pictures. This is a very real practice- not non-existent at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey Einsteins, they don't need to come here and go to TJ just to get into the Ivies. They get accepted in droves right from the prestigious High Schools in S. Korea.

Korean Minjok Leadership Academy South Korea South Korea 133 14 10.5%

higher acceptance rate than TJ!!!

Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology Alexandria Va. 428 39 9.1%

------------

Man, I wish many of Xenophobes here would go back to their Tea Party rallies with their ridiculous conspiracy theories about how their tax dollars are being wasted...

So why do they do it? I mean if they can get in to a good American college straight from Korea?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...looked like at least 30% very recent arrivals.

30%? My kid is from a middle school which has over 50 kids going TJ and she is not aware of any kid coming to US just for TJ.
She might not know everyone but 30% seems hard to believe.

Wowa! What school is sending 50 kids to TJ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey Einsteins,[b] So why do they do it? I mean if they can get in to a good American college straight from Korea?

I'm going to assume this is a sincere question and take a stab at it. One reason is that they want to master English--really speak it fluently. After all, English is the international language and you need to know it to be successful. And what is the best way to learn a language other than to live in the country that speaks it? It's like studying abroad to learn a language & its culture. The US is not the only country they go to. I've heard of people going Canada, Europe, China (to learn Chinese, that is)... I don't think it's really about the education here or even TJ. In fact, the education is so advanced in Korea that after a few years here, they would be behind (at least in Math) when they go back, except maybe TJ. It's really more about the experience. I think they value the experience of living abroad and learning English and really getting to know the culture. I think a lot of Americans feel the same way. I think Americans value the experience of, say, living in Spain and really mastering Spanish and understanding the culture. I would find that experience valuable. The difference is that they're doing it at a much younger age (ES, MS, HS age), hence splitting up the family, and not waiting until college or after college, which is when most Americans who do it would go. Because as we all know, the earlier you learn a language, the better you are at it (especially the accent). I think this goes to, depending on how you look at it, how competitive they are or how much they're willing to sacrifice in raising their kids. Who wants to split a family up? And it's certainly more expensive to do this, but they feel like it's important for their kids if they are going to be competitive.