Private school teachers, please answer this question honestly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And teachers who move freely between types of schools. Not everyone is an ideologue on this subject -- people take the best job they can find and depending on their location, their goals, and their immediate needs at any given moment. The best job here and now might be public, might be private, might be charter. Years earlier or later, the same teacher may have a different set of opportunities and/or a different sense of what s/he wants from a job.

I agree. You make a very good point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You were actually qualified to teach in public? I didn't think private teachers had the same qualifications as public

I find this whole discussion fascinating. I have taught in both public and private school in DC, CA and NYC. Teachers choose to work at a school for a whole host of reasons. It's a personal choice. Why all the vitriol for either position? There are great teachers in both private and public schools. There are incompetent teachers in both. Having certification or an MA does not necessarily make you a great teacher AND private schools have many certified/educated teachers. Why do these discussions always have to get so loaded with personal barbs, outright insults and redicule for one thing or another? Makes DCUM a freak show most of the time.
I am certified, educated (MA) and have chosen to work in different environments for different reasons. Pay in privates does not have to be awful - although in some it is - but often the low pay provides other benefits that can make it worth it. Public school can be a fabulous place to work, but it also can come with limitations that a teacher may not want to deal with. You all seem to be want to make it an either/or, good/bad thing. Get real. Life is much more complex and nuanced than that.

Very good points! I admit I have somewhat of a bias in favor of those who have academic degrees in their subject areas. This stems largely from my personal life experiences. I guess I harken back to a time where teachers were considered scholars. In my opinion, public schools have hurt themselves by putting greater value on the "teaching of teaching" at the expense of teaching the subject in depth. I don't see why this is not obvious. I respect most teachers in both private and public schools but public schools have to understand that a person with a Masters of Education to teach history in secondary school is usually going to be at a great disadvantage over an MA in History. They just don't have the same level of course work or research skills as a historian with an MA or PhD. (Again, in most, but not all cases) Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people who send their children to private schools realize that they are often getting teachers that are better prepared in their subject areas. I know there are many excellent teachers in public schools. I also know there are many who lack as good a background in their subject area because so much emphasis was sent on education courses. Everyone pretty well knows that a Masters of Education is not as difficult as say an MA in English or History.

Kenhr

Let me make one more point. I'm not against teacher certification requirements. I just don't think public schools should reject "out of hand" good teachers from other areas such as private, charter schools, etc. that have Masters degrees or PhDs. They should have the option to hire those people. I understand that they will want them to become certified at some point. That is okay. However, It almost criminal to me that those caliber of people are denied employment for lack of a teaching certificate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP who asked why parents would send their kids to a private school. Okay, I get why teachers might want to teach there - even for less money - but I still don't understand why parents would pay so much to send their children there knowing that the teachers do not need the full qualificitions of public school teachers? Is it just to brag about being able to afford to send their child to a private school? What kind of education are you really paying for? Not trying to be snarky, just truly curious.

A friend graduated from Yale with a math degree and was turned away from teaching in a local public school system because they hadn't taken college calculus (they took it in High School and placed out via AP exam). So they couldn't get certified as a public school teacher and taught in private. Highly qualified, loves working with kids and worth every penny of a private school tuition. Hundreds of stories like this in privates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP who asked why parents would send their kids to a private school. Okay, I get why teachers might want to teach there - even for less money - but I still don't understand why parents would pay so much to send their children there knowing that the teachers do not need the full qualificitions of public school teachers? Is it just to brag about being able to afford to send their child to a private school? What kind of education are you really paying for? Not trying to be snarky, just truly curious.

A friend graduated from Yale with a math degree and was turned away from teaching in a local public school system because they hadn't taken college calculus (they took it in High School and placed out via AP exam). So they couldn't get certified as a public school teacher and taught in private. Highly qualified, loves working with kids and worth every penny of a private school tuition. Hundreds of stories like this in privates.

Situations like the above are exactly what I've been talking about. It is almost criminal, in my opinion, to miss out on such highly gifted and qualified individuals. I agree with the writer of the above. This happens over and over again and the privates are able to take advantage of them. The public schools get too tied up with their preconceived notions about certificates and miss out on good talent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people who send their children to private schools realize that they are often getting teachers that are better prepared in their subject areas. I know there are many excellent teachers in public schools. I also know there are many who lack as good a background in their subject area because so much emphasis was sent on education courses. Everyone pretty well knows that a Masters of Education is not as difficult as say an MA in English or History.

Kenhr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxPVyieptwA

Again, knowing your subject matter inside and out doesn't necessarily make someone a good teacher.

No, but it sure increases the odds!

[Anonymous]

"A friend graduated from Yale with a math degree and was turned away from teaching in a local public school system because they hadn't taken college calculus (they took it in High School and placed out via AP exam). So they couldn't get certified as a public school teacher and taught in private. Highly qualified, loves working with kids and worth every penny of a private school tuition. Hundreds of stories like this in privates."

If there are hundreds of stories like this in privates, then your schools are filled with dim recruits. Every jurisdiction in the country that certifies teachers has language allow a highly qualified applicant to petition for individual certification based on unusual situations, as in taking AP courses in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"A friend graduated from Yale with a math degree and was turned away from teaching in a local public school system because they hadn't taken college calculus (they took it in High School and placed out via AP exam). So they couldn't get certified as a public school teacher and taught in private. Highly qualified, loves working with kids and worth every penny of a private school tuition. Hundreds of stories like this in privates."

If there are hundreds of stories like this in privates, then your schools are filled with dim recruits. Every jurisdiction in the country that certifies teachers has language allow a highly qualified applicant to petition for individual certification based on unusual situations, as in taking AP courses in HS.

Well if that is true, I think that is fairly reasonable.

[Anonymous]

As a previous poster noted, the certification in a subject area isn't worth much if a person can't teach. I have a PhD, and I T.A'ed a lot in grad school. Many of my brilliant classmates were incapable of communicating the material to undergraduates (let alone kids).

I have spoken to a number of kids at top privates here and in CA. Anecdotally, they all mentioned at least one teacher, often from Europe, who used methods that were completely discredited years ago - rote memorization, shouting at the kids etc. I think some of these teachers do well because the kids they teach are so driven they will compensate for the teachers' shortcomings. In fact, perhaps that's a deliberate tradeoff the private school makes: they only take kids that anyone can teach, so they don't have to worry about teaching ability and can focus on content expertise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a previous poster noted, the certification in a subject area isn't worth much if a person can't teach. I have a PhD, and I T.A'ed a lot in grad school. Many of my brilliant classmates were incapable of communicating the material to undergraduates (let alone kids).

I have spoken to a number of kids at top privates here and in CA. Anecdotally, they all mentioned at least one teacher, often from Europe, who used methods that were completely discredited years ago - rote memorization, shouting at the kids etc. I think some of these teachers do well because the kids they teach are so driven they will compensate for the teachers' shortcomings. In fact, perhaps that's a deliberate tradeoff the private school makes: they only take kids that anyone can teach, so they don't have to worry about teaching ability and can focus on content expertise.

I hear what you are saying and I've witnessed that inability of some brilliant people to communicate adequately. All I am saying is if someone has reached the very highest levels (Masters and PhD) of education their field allows, and they can communicate it, the public schools should have the option of hiring them even if they are not certified. I'm not saying that continued employment shouldn't be contingent on them eventually getting certified. I know too many of these brilliant people that can also communicate their knowledge that would not be given a glance in our public schools. And all for want of a teacher's certification. That is what I have a problem with. I believe the teaching lobby in this country has done a very good job in helping this to be so.

[Anonymous]

I told my sister who is a public school teacher about this thread. She said that although she has no idea if most private school teachers would prefer public if given the opportunity, she says that she knows of no one teaching public who would want to go private. In fact when she graduated college, the only classmates who went to teach at privates were the ones who weren't offered jobs in a public school system. To me, this speaks volumes.

[Anonymous]

I want someone who has academic degrees in the subject AND certification. MCPS is moving in that direction.

[Anonymous]

http://www.discussion.clearfund.org/files/unitedstates/TFA/Laczko-Kerr%20and%20Berliner.%202002.%20The%20effectiveness%20of%20Teach%20for%20America.pdf

[Anonymous]

Communicating , subject knowledge & managing the classroom. The last one is the real bear. Without having a rapport with whatever age level you're working with, all else is lost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I told my sister who is a public school teacher about this thread. She said that although she has no idea if most private school teachers would prefer public if given the opportunity, she says that she knows of no one teaching public who would want to go private. In fact when she graduated college, the only classmates who went to teach at privates were the ones who weren't offered jobs in a public school system. To me, this speaks volumes.

I actually think this might say more about where she went to college than anything about public and private school teaching choices. I think there are some real misconceptions about why teachers teach in private schools. First of all there are a huge variety of private schools just like there are quite a few different private colleges out there. There are Montessori specific schools, college prep schools, boarding schools, progressive schools, schools attached to colleges and schools that were created just so rich folks didn't have to be too close to poor folks.

There are also abysmal public schools, well funded public schools, progressive public schools, appalling test focused public schools -

I've found that teacher training colleges are often attached to local school districts and therefore push the public schools as the work option. some teacher training colleges and programs train a person to be a great teacher no matter where they teach - public or private. Yes, some privates take folks out of college because they are experts in a subject matter but many want teachers with specific teaching training just like the public schools do. So many of the folks on this thread seem to want to pit one against the other - what's that really about?