Age Cutoff for Kindergarten

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The studies indicate the opposite - children who are allowed to play are creative thinkers, better prepared to learn, less anxious, and they do a better job navigating socially with peers. Play isn't pointless - it teaches children to create, solve problems, defend oneself, speak up, resolve personal differences, learn normative rules, listen and respect rules. As we strip that away, we are stripping away children's ability to learn and grow and cope. It can't be taught in a classroom lesson.

+1000

Plus, in the past, American kids did not learn to read until first grade for the most part. Reading early does not indicate that you will be a better reader by fourth grade. (Of course, there have always been those who "picked" up reading early. But that is a long way from the kids who are being "taught" to read at four.

We need to back off. Most European countries still wait to teach reading until six or seven.

I taught first grade. The PP above is correct. There is nothing sadder than a child who can call out words but is not able to tell you what he just read.
I also taught K before the big push to teach reading. Most of my kids could read some by the end of the year. But, the thing that probably benefited them the most were the creative and critical thinking skills developed by the other experiences. For example, we had the most wonderful large blocks. At the beginning of the year the kids would sit in their group and build towers. By the end of the year, they were constructing cities together. What did they learn? Teamwork--and, hopefully, a little physics. They learned to solve problems and many other things. The kids also painted in my class. We taught them how to set up the painting center-put newspaper under the easels and wash up the area when they were finished. That translates to a good work ethic, following basic directions, and consideration for others.
These are just a couple of examples that kids are not getting in Kindergarten today. Sad.

This is what kids do in preschool. So, basically if you were the teacher and kids have mastered these skills and reading, it would be a holding cell for those kids as teachers are too lazy to teach where the kids are at and based on what they need vs. a teacher's agenda. Its far easier on a teacher to let kids play than it is to teach them to read.

[Anonymous]

This is what kids do in preschool. So, basically if you were the teacher and kids have mastered these skills and reading, it would be a holding cell for those kids as teachers are too lazy to teach where the kids are at and based on what they need vs. a teacher's agenda. Its far easier on a teacher to let kids play than it is to teach them to read.

No. It is actually much more difficult and requires more skill to set up structured, educational play. The teacher does not just say "go play". A "holding cell" ......Really? Believe me, it is a lot easier to have the kids do worksheets and teach reading groups than to prepare lessons that teach.
For example: After the paintings were done, we sat down and wrote stories with them. Kids would dictate and then read back. That requires no effort? A cooking center, required preparation of direction cards in sequence which the kids had to follow--and, naturally, this was done with teacher direction. It included measuring and combining.

And, of course, there was the normal instruction with rhyming words and sounds and letters, etc. Those were certainly not ignored. Many, many other activities that helped the kids learn to think and follow directions as well as learn the alphabet and sounds and numbers.
Holding cell? My foot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is what kids do in preschool. So, basically if you were the teacher and kids have mastered these skills and reading, it would be a holding cell for those kids as teachers are too lazy to teach where the kids are at and based on what they need vs. a teacher's agenda. Its far easier on a teacher to let kids play than it is to teach them to read.

No. It is actually much more difficult and requires more skill to set up structured, educational play. The teacher does not just say "go play". A "holding cell" ......Really? Believe me, it is a lot easier to have the kids do worksheets and teach reading groups than to prepare lessons that teach.
For example: After the paintings were done, we sat down and wrote stories with them. Kids would dictate and then read back. That requires no effort? A cooking center, required preparation of direction cards in sequence which the kids had to follow--and, naturally, this was done with teacher direction. It included measuring and combining.

And, of course, there was the normal instruction with rhyming words and sounds and letters, etc. Those were certainly not ignored. Many, many other activities that helped the kids learn to think and follow directions as well as learn the alphabet and sounds and numbers.
Holding cell? My foot.

Yes, that's a holding cell... my kid would be so bored and acting up. He knew his alphabet, sounds and numbers by 3.5 and at that age was naturally reading well (new stuff, not just memorized - not sure how he did it but he did). That is all preschool stuff to me. I expect reading, writing and basic addition/subtraction in K. I would expect the teacher helping the child write the sentences. Sequencing is something you work on at 3 and 4, not 5 and 6. Kids should also be following basic instructions and if they cannot they should be tested for special needs. Parents and preschools need to do a better job of preparing kids for K. rather than expecting K. to make up for things that they developmentally should have learned before entering school (with obvious excepts of parents not being able to for a variety of reasons including just trying to survive and putting food on the table).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, that's a holding cell... my kid would be so bored and acting up. He knew his alphabet, sounds and numbers by 3.5 and at that age was naturally reading well (new stuff, not just memorized - not sure how he did it but he did). That is all preschool stuff to me. I expect reading, writing and basic addition/subtraction in K. I would expect the teacher helping the child write the sentences. Sequencing is something you work on at 3 and 4, not 5 and 6. Kids should also be following basic instructions and if they cannot they should be tested for special needs. Parents and preschools need to do a better job of preparing kids for K. rather than expecting K. to make up for things that they developmentally should have learned before entering school (with obvious excepts of parents not being able to for a variety of reasons including just trying to survive and putting food on the table).

Whoa Nelly. Your genius-level child wouldn't be bored in a class like that, or at least he shouldn't be. Also, you don't need worksheets to learn math or early reading. Sounds like the teacher who posted above knows that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, that's a holding cell... my kid would be so bored and acting up. He knew his alphabet, sounds and numbers by 3.5 and at that age was naturally reading well (new stuff, not just memorized - not sure how he did it but he did). That is all preschool stuff to me. I expect reading, writing and basic addition/subtraction in K. I would expect the teacher helping the child write the sentences. Sequencing is something you work on at 3 and 4, not 5 and 6. Kids should also be following basic instructions and if they cannot they should be tested for special needs. Parents and preschools need to do a better job of preparing kids for K. rather than expecting K. to make up for things that they developmentally should have learned before entering school (with obvious excepts of parents not being able to for a variety of reasons including just trying to survive and putting food on the table).

Whoa Nelly. Your genius-level child wouldn't be bored in a class like that, or at least he shouldn't be. Also, you don't need worksheets to learn math or early reading. Sounds like the teacher who posted above knows that.

He's not genius nor are most kids. He is interested in learning and we fully support it. Why dumb down kids and make them wait because some parents and teachers don't think they are capable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We need to back off. Most European countries still wait to teach reading until six or seven.

People keep saying that. I would like a list of which countries constitute these "most European countries". Actually, a definition of "teach reading" would be helpful too.

[Anonymous]

My child attends a French school and decoding was part of daily homework in K. And their universal cutoff is Dec 31, so there weren't any kids turning 6 prior to January, and quite a few 4-turning-5s (including my child) at the beginning of the school year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is what kids do in preschool. So, basically if you were the teacher and kids have mastered these skills and reading, it would be a holding cell for those kids as teachers are too lazy to teach where the kids are at and based on what they need vs. a teacher's agenda. Its far easier on a teacher to let kids play than it is to teach them to read.

No. It is actually much more difficult and requires more skill to set up structured, educational play. The teacher does not just say "go play". A "holding cell" ......Really? Believe me, it is a lot easier to have the kids do worksheets and teach reading groups than to prepare lessons that teach.
For example: After the paintings were done, we sat down and wrote stories with them. Kids would dictate and then read back. That requires no effort? A cooking center, required preparation of direction cards in sequence which the kids had to follow--and, naturally, this was done with teacher direction. It included measuring and combining.

And, of course, there was the normal instruction with rhyming words and sounds and letters, etc. Those were certainly not ignored. Many, many other activities that helped the kids learn to think and follow directions as well as learn the alphabet and sounds and numbers.
Holding cell? My foot.

Much learning can also be introduced through play...they can use blocks to learn basic math skills and learn about patterns. Many of the children who enter kindergarten have not actually had a chance to learn the skills we are discussing. Children are spending too much time seated at a table with someone lecturing them - it just isn't good for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is what kids do in preschool. So, basically if you were the teacher and kids have mastered these skills and reading, it would be a holding cell for those kids as teachers are too lazy to teach where the kids are at and based on what they need vs. a teacher's agenda. Its far easier on a teacher to let kids play than it is to teach them to read.

No. It is actually much more difficult and requires more skill to set up structured, educational play. The teacher does not just say "go play". A "holding cell" ......Really? Believe me, it is a lot easier to have the kids do worksheets and teach reading groups than to prepare lessons that teach.
For example: After the paintings were done, we sat down and wrote stories with them. Kids would dictate and then read back. That requires no effort? A cooking center, required preparation of direction cards in sequence which the kids had to follow--and, naturally, this was done with teacher direction. It included measuring and combining.

And, of course, there was the normal instruction with rhyming words and sounds and letters, etc. Those were certainly not ignored. Many, many other activities that helped the kids learn to think and follow directions as well as learn the alphabet and sounds and numbers.
Holding cell? My foot.

Much learning can also be introduced through play...they can use blocks to learn basic math skills and learn about patterns. Many of the children who enter kindergarten have not actually had a chance to learn the skills we are discussing. Children are spending too much time seated at a table with someone lecturing them - it just isn't good for them.

So, then teach them the skills. Dumbing them down via play is not teaching them. If kids don't know it, then someone has failed them prior to entering K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child attends a French school and decoding was part of daily homework in K. And their universal cutoff is Dec 31, so there weren't any kids turning 6 prior to January, and quite a few 4-turning-5s (including my child) at the beginning of the school year.

Children in England start school at 4, and are taught reading.

[Anonymous]

Children in England start school at 4, and are taught reading.

And, this is a relatively new policy and the jury is still out. Why? There is not any advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Children in England start school at 4, and are taught reading.

And, this is a relatively new policy and the jury is still out. Why? There is not any advantage.

You're moving the goal posts.

Somebody: Most European countries don't teach reading until 6 or 7.
PP#1: Which European countries?
PP#2: France teaches reading at 4/5.
PP#3: So does England.
You: Well, they shouldn't.

[Anonymous]

I am from an Eastern European country and I would say most kids learn to read by 5-6 yo. You are expected to know how to read and do basic math when you start 1st grade at age 7.

[Anonymous]

Hmm. If I had a 5 year old, K age child who was incredibly bored by activities like painting and free play with blocks, I might have him tested for special needs, myself. PP, if your child would be bored by that then I would be really concerned about his lack of imaginative play and poor social skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmm. If I had a 5 year old, K age child who was incredibly bored by activities like painting and free play with blocks, I might have him tested for special needs, myself. PP, if your child would be bored by that then I would be really concerned about his lack of imaginative play and poor social skills.

Oh good grief, PP. Not all five-year-olds want to spend all day doing nothing but painting and playing with blocks. In fact, in my experience, most five-year-olds don't want to spend all day doing nothing but painting and playing with blocks. If a five-year-old is interested in reading and doing math, that doesn't indicate special needs.