Questions re: potentially lame costume, and trick-or-treating date

[Anonymous]

Again, NO ONE has said they would be "deeply offended." You are reading that into this discussion. What is being expressed is that it is very easy to go terribly off track when you don another culture's traditional garb. I think it COULD be done authentically and respectfully, but unless you really know what you are doing and can get it right, I would not do it. Why? Because we have long and ugly history of stereotyping and caricaturing of certain races and ethnicities in our country-- a history which has been very hurtful and harmful to those groups of people -- and so to do anything that, even inadvertently, echos or calls to mind those caricactures and stereotypes is not cool.

The "chopsticks in the hair" is a perfect example. For me, dressing your kid in a kimono is just fine, but then sticking some chopsticks in the hair to make it somehow "Asian" -- AS SO MANY PEOPLE WOULD DO -- is ridiculous. There are real hairpieces that go with kimono, but as far as chopsticks go, why not just stick a fork and knife in your hair?

You are entitled to think I am being overly sensitive, but I am entitled to my feelings, which are authentic and based on experiences I have lived and maybe you have not. If you know that there is a sizeable group of people who feel as I do and you choose to disregard that because you feel you are right, you are entitled to do so. But do not tell me how I should or should not feel about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

putting chopsticks in hair

This is offensive? Really?

It isn't so much offensive as ridiculous. Chopsticks are the equivalent of a knife and fork in many Asian countries. If you saw someone in another country walking around with those in their hair so as to evoke and "American" aesthetic, would you not (a) laugh and (b) think the person knew absolutely nothing about Americans?

[Anonymous]

PP - I'm not talking about the chopsticks you'd get with your dinner! These are specifically for hair! You're blowing this out of proportion.

[Anonymous]

I am laughing my ass off at the idiots who don't know that "chopsticks" refers to a very traditional hair ornament, yet are getting their panties all in a wad over "ignorant" people who dress their kids in other cultures' costumes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

putting chopsticks in hair

This is offensive? Really?

To the pp who said there aren't Chinese women running around with chopsticks in their hair... Um, I wear chopsticks in my hair (and pencils, but that's certainly not an intentional fashion statement).

This whole thread is obsurd. Just because someone dresses as something, doesn't mean they are making fun of it. There is a distinction, however, when someone makes a characture out of something, as another pp noted.

[Anonymous]

I guess I just don't get it because I like to be nice to people. I don't think of it as being "PC," I think of it as not being a jerk. If someone explains that something is offensive to their culture, and explains why, then I accept that.

The other day I read about something that gay people said was offensive to them. I didn't get how it was offensive at all, but I figured it's because I'm not gay, so I accepted their explanations of why it was bothersome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess I just don't get it because I like to be nice to people. I don't think of it as being "PC," I think of it as not being a jerk. If someone explains that something is offensive to their culture, and explains why, then I accept that.

The other day I read about something that gay people said was offensive to them. I didn't get how it was offensive at all, but I figured it's because I'm not gay, so I accepted their explanations of why it was bothersome.

Here's the thing about that, though. Lots of the people taking offense here don't seem to be Chinese, or even Asian. And no group is a monolith. There will be varying opinions amongst the more than ONE BILLION people who might have a stake in the question. (I'm betting the majority would say "who the hell cares?") I've got lots of Asian friends, and upon polling, not one offered even a hint of reticence. Why should we all kowtow to a teeny though noisy minority, who's clearly just trying to push us around?

I think what we're seeing here is anonymous bullying, much like we're seeing over on the teeth-brushing thread and myriad others, where a couple of people who have NO stake in the health of your child's teeth (or his naps, or his soccer career) are taking some sick pleasure in diminishing a stranger's self confidence, and trying through sheer nastiness of language (and some really terrible reasoning skills) to push their opinions on others. It's what bullies do.

I don't like bullies. I won't give in to them. I have the opinion of the people I know and respect, and that's really all that matters to me. My daughter will be wearing her Chinese princess dress (which she adores, and wants to try on at least once a day). If ONE single person so much as looks mildly uncomfortable, I'll eat the thing myself. But internet bullies are cowards, and even if I come face to face with one of the hyperbolic idiots (blackface? foot binding?) who's posted on this thread, I am dead certain that she will smile and gush and tell me how precious the little princess is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess I just don't get it because I like to be nice to people. I don't think of it as being "PC," I think of it as not being a jerk. If someone explains that something is offensive to their culture, and explains why, then I accept that.

The other day I read about something that gay people said was offensive to them. I didn't get how it was offensive at all, but I figured it's because I'm not gay, so I accepted their explanations of why it was bothersome.

but there isn't widespread agreement that it IS offensive. i'm asian. i don't find it offensive at all to have people put on traditional garb from another country because they find it beautiful.
but like others said, i would have a problem if it became a caricature, if the kid started saying things in a chingchong accent or slanted their eyes everywhere they went. but if they think the chinese dress is pretty like any other pretty dress, and see it as playing dress-up, then i think that is a good thing.

[Anonymous]

When my daughter wanted to wear a kimono a few years ago, we did some online research to learn about it's history and meaning, because I'm just that kind of nerd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I just don't get it because I like to be nice to people. I don't think of it as being "PC," I think of it as not being a jerk. If someone explains that something is offensive to their culture, and explains why, then I accept that.

The other day I read about something that gay people said was offensive to them. I didn't get how it was offensive at all, but I figured it's because I'm not gay, so I accepted their explanations of why it was bothersome.

but there isn't widespread agreement that it IS offensive. i'm asian. i don't find it offensive at all to have people put on traditional garb from another country because they find it beautiful.
but like others said, i would have a problem if it became a caricature, if the kid started saying things in a chingchong accent or slanted their eyes everywhere they went. but if they think the chinese dress is pretty like any other pretty dress, and see it as playing dress-up, then i think that is a good thing.

It's not about stating that it is 100% definitely offensive. It's about understand why it some people feel it's offensive to their culture and not dismissing it as "ridiculous" as another PP did. Not that everyone or every Asian does/should find it offensive.

[Anonymous]

Check out some of these and you may understand why some of us get kind of annoyed. Apparently Asian people are usually to be found (a) posed with hands together or (b) brandishing a ninja sword or (c) fanning ourselves. Oh and we are exotic and mysterious, and sometimes wise. And ancient. And occasionally wise and we like fortune cookies. Some of these costumes don't cross the line but unfortunately MOST do, so forgive the knee-jerk reaction.

http://www.spirithalloween.com/product/mandarin-costume-kit/ Note stereotyped "hands together" pose, random references to takeout food, and suggested accessories which are Japanese in nature (not Mandarin, which is Chinese).

Again with the hands together pose ("ah soooo") and of course we are all "exotic." http://www.orientaltrading.com/ui/search/processRequest.do?requestURI=searchMain&Ntx=mode%2bmatchallpartial&Ntt=geisha%20costume&N=0&Ntk=all&searchTerm=geisha+costume&BP=8883&source=google&cm_mmc=google-_-OTC+Halloween+Costumes-_-Halloween+Geisha+Costume-_-718c934a7cdb4cd39bea3d850eb9a1c8&ms=search

Nice eye makeup. http://www.spirithalloween.com/product/geisha-710/

Not even sure what to say about this. http://www.costumecraze.com/PLAY275.html

This one also doesn't bug me. http://www.heirloomwoodentoys.com/Chinese-Girl-Children-Costume-pr-18412.html

Mmmm. Even the guys have to do the eye thing. http://www.buycostumes.com/Wise-Chinese-Man-Set/33505/ProductDetail.aspx?REF=AFC-party&AID=10273928&PID=2100672&SID=NAT891587-sc32847109

Ancient and mystique AND the eye makeup. http://www.buycostumes.com/Kimono-Princess-Child-Costume/70803/ProductDetail.aspx

Hands, makeup AND references to an "obi" which is Japanese, whereas the rest of the costume is not even vaguely Japanese. But that is ok cuz we are all the same, right?
http://www.costumecraze.com/PNCS35.html

This one for some reason doesn't bother me, probably because it is kind of Disneyfied to look like a version of every other "princess" costume. Just my take. http://www.costumecraze.com/TRAD145.html

http://www.buycostumes.com/Oriental-Princess-Adult/10160/ProductDetail.aspx Yes, very exotic those slanty eyes.

Tell me again what Mandarins (Chinese) and Ninjas (Japanese) have to do with each other? Oh yeah, same country right? ... http://www.costumesinc.com/p15191/Mandarin-Hat-Ninja-Costume-Accessory.html

Did we already do this one? Here she is "adorably exotic." http://www.buycostumes.com/Kimono-Princess-Child-Costume/34994/ProductDetail.aspx?REF=SCE-bizrate

Because every girl wants to grow up to be a "china doll" http://www.wondercostumes.com/china-doll-costume-infant-costume-ptcdic.html

Again with the "ah soooo" http://www.wondercostumes.com/madame_butterfly_adult_costume-ptmbac.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I just don't get it because I like to be nice to people. I don't think of it as being "PC," I think of it as not being a jerk. If someone explains that something is offensive to their culture, and explains why, then I accept that.

The other day I read about something that gay people said was offensive to them. I didn't get how it was offensive at all, but I figured it's because I'm not gay, so I accepted their explanations of why it was bothersome.

Here's the thing about that, though. Lots of the people taking offense here don't seem to be Chinese, or even Asian. And no group is a monolith. There will be varying opinions amongst the more than ONE BILLION people who might have a stake in the question. (I'm betting the majority would say "who the hell cares?") I've got lots of Asian friends, and upon polling, not one offered even a hint of reticence. Why should we all kowtow to a teeny though noisy minority, who's clearly just trying to push us around?

I think what we're seeing here is anonymous bullying, much like we're seeing over on the teeth-brushing thread and myriad others, where a couple of people who have NO stake in the health of your child's teeth (or his naps, or his soccer career) are taking some sick pleasure in diminishing a stranger's self confidence, and trying through sheer nastiness of language (and some really terrible reasoning skills) to push their opinions on others. It's what bullies do.

I don't like bullies. I won't give in to them. I have the opinion of the people I know and respect, and that's really all that matters to me. My daughter will be wearing her Chinese princess dress (which she adores, and wants to try on at least once a day). If ONE single person so much as looks mildly uncomfortable, I'll eat the thing myself. But internet bullies are cowards, and even if I come face to face with one of the hyperbolic idiots (blackface? foot binding?) who's posted on this thread, I am dead certain that she will smile and gush and tell me how precious the little princess is.

11:41, you may not realize it, but you just proved the point of the poster with whom you disagreed. Sentiments like the ones you expressed -- derision at the "sensitivities" of others -- make you sound like a jerk. Whether or not people are being "too sensitive" (and who really gets to define that?), the question remains: why offend if you have another option?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am curious how many of the deeply offended posters are Chinese or from another Asian country. I think many Asians are more secure in their identity than you seem to assume. I would never think that someone is mocking my parents' culture or regards it as abnormal or taboo--even subconsciously--just because a cute 3-year-old appears at my doorstep in traditional dress. As long as it's worn respectfully, I'd much rather see that than yet another slutty Tinkerbell outfit.

I am half Chinese and though I would not be "deeply offended" I would definitely find the costume off putting and I would probably think that the parents of the little girl were "dumb Americans" who were uneducated or just clueless.

[Anonymous]

OP,

By the way you worded the topic in the subject line, I thought you had a DATE on Halloween.

Now I'm disappointed.

[Anonymous]

I love real afros and have always wondered why people would want to F with Mother Nature b/c afros are so cool!

But this has nothing to do with OP's question. I digress for my own personal satisfaction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When I first saw the OP's question, I thought what's the big deal? But you're right it's offensive. It's as cringe worthy as people who allow their children to wear afro wigs.

I hate, hate, hate afro wigs. But I won't get into that here, since I'm sure very few people will see how that's offensive.