Keep big suburban house or get a condo in city

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with condos are the fees

That's stupid. If managed well, condo fees just take housing expenses and equalize them so you are aren't stuck with say a $20k roof bill or landscaping etc.

The actual problem is a lack of comparable appreciation.

In a city, they do appreciate. Much different from a condo in the suburbs.

I own a condo in the city. I love it. I will argue for it a million times. On the other hand, it has not come close to comparable appreciation. Over the past 20 years, it has gone up about 20% but has since gone down at least 10%. In 20 years!

Guess it depends upon the city

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with condos are the fees

That's stupid. If managed well, condo fees just take housing expenses and equalize them so you are aren't stuck with say a $20k roof bill or landscaping etc.

The actual problem is a lack of comparable appreciation.

In a city, they do appreciate. Much different from a condo in the suburbs.

I own a condo in the city. I love it. I will argue for it a million times. On the other hand, it has not come close to comparable appreciation. Over the past 20 years, it has gone up about 20% but has since gone down at least 10%. In 20 years!

Guess it depends upon the city

I was talking about Washington DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with condos are the fees

Not really. Those fees include things you no longer need to pay for directly:

HOA fees include
Insurance on condo (except our belongings and $25k deductible)
Alarm system (don't need with 24 hour concierge)
All exterior maintenance ([b]no roof, no painting[/b], no snow shoveling,etc)
Hot water heater is HOA managed (central for the bldg so no leak issues)
No landscaping to manage

Once you consider that the costs are not that much. It balances out with what we paid for our big ass house.

What about the capital assessments? That seems like a bigger issue and they often feel like big surprises. A homeowner doesn't really have any maintenance charges for a roof or painting, other than every 20 years you need a new roof and you may paint your house every 10 years...but i assume a condo also charges the tenants for these things as well with capital assessments.

I realize the situation in Florida is extreme, but obviously tons of people now looking to offload their condos for whatever they can get because the older buildings are getting hit with massive capital calls.

Well yes capital assessments are included. You do have to pay to maintain older buildings. A good condo will keep up with the maintenance and minimize those capital assessments. Just like a 25 year old home can have major added costs. My 4Ksq ft home that is 25 years old, needed a new roof ($40K, trust me I priced around, that was the best price for a reputable place), have to paint every 6-7 years where I am ($15K), I've had to replace 3 windows and doors due to leaks and getting ready with the 25 yo home to replace the rest---so $50-75K, the 25 yo propane tank deteriorated and had to be replaced ($15K+ for the entire project)...and the list goes on. You have those "capital assessments" with a home as well as it ages. And yes Florida is extreme. You have to research when purchasing a condo anywhere. I read the HOA notes for 2-5 years for the 5 places we considered, and ruled out 3 of them due to poor management/maintenance.

But same things can happen to a 10 yo home. Once replaced a roof on that house, because it kept leaking and the builder had done a terrible job, and shingles were wearing down early. So between all the leaks and inside repairs and then the new roof (3 years in), I spent close to $25K on a 10 yo home, something I woudlnt' expect to need to spend until 20+ years, but there I was.

But the beauty of a condo is I no longer have to plan the maintenance...I just pay the HOA fee and it happens automatically. Our building is one of the top 2 in the city that is in the 15+ year age range. Because we spend and maintain well and it's extremely well run. That translates to no hassles.

I'm just curious what you mean by "they are included". My understanding is HOA covers routine maintenance, but if the condo needs a new roof or they have to paint exterior or they are going to remodel the pool and gym, etc., that those fees are levied independently.

Are you saying that for your building they add some $$$ amount into the HOA fee which they will then use for capital assessments, so they never hit you with a $10,000 or $20,000 or whatever bill?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with condos are the fees

Not really. Those fees include things you no longer need to pay for directly:

HOA fees include
Insurance on condo (except our belongings and $25k deductible)
Alarm system (don't need with 24 hour concierge)
All exterior maintenance ([b]no roof, no painting[/b], no snow shoveling,etc)
Hot water heater is HOA managed (central for the bldg so no leak issues)
No landscaping to manage

Once you consider that the costs are not that much. It balances out with what we paid for our big ass house.

What about the capital assessments? That seems like a bigger issue and they often feel like big surprises. A homeowner doesn't really have any maintenance charges for a roof or painting, other than every 20 years you need a new roof and you may paint your house every 10 years...but i assume a condo also charges the tenants for these things as well with capital assessments.

I realize the situation in Florida is extreme, but obviously tons of people now looking to offload their condos for whatever they can get because the older buildings are getting hit with massive capital calls.

Well yes capital assessments are included. You do have to pay to maintain older buildings. A good condo will keep up with the maintenance and minimize those capital assessments. Just like a 25 year old home can have major added costs. My 4Ksq ft home that is 25 years old, needed a new roof ($40K, trust me I priced around, that was the best price for a reputable place), have to paint every 6-7 years where I am ($15K), I've had to replace 3 windows and doors due to leaks and getting ready with the 25 yo home to replace the rest---so $50-75K, the 25 yo propane tank deteriorated and had to be replaced ($15K+ for the entire project)...and the list goes on. You have those "capital assessments" with a home as well as it ages. And yes Florida is extreme. You have to research when purchasing a condo anywhere. I read the HOA notes for 2-5 years for the 5 places we considered, and ruled out 3 of them due to poor management/maintenance.

But same things can happen to a 10 yo home. Once replaced a roof on that house, because it kept leaking and the builder had done a terrible job, and shingles were wearing down early. So between all the leaks and inside repairs and then the new roof (3 years in), I spent close to $25K on a 10 yo home, something I woudlnt' expect to need to spend until 20+ years, but there I was.

But the beauty of a condo is I no longer have to plan the maintenance...I just pay the HOA fee and it happens automatically. Our building is one of the top 2 in the city that is in the 15+ year age range. Because we spend and maintain well and it's extremely well run. That translates to no hassles.

I'm just curious what you mean by "they are included". My understanding is HOA covers routine maintenance, but if the condo needs a new roof or they have to paint exterior or they are going to remodel the pool and gym, etc., that those fees are levied independently.

Are you saying that for your building they add some $$$ amount into the HOA fee which they will then use for capital assessments, so they never hit you with a $10,000 or $20,000 or whatever bill?

A good condo building is planning ahead for all of those things. needing a new roof or infrastructure maintenance should not be a surprise. We are at 60% of fully funded (for all anticipated capital needs). So if something major happened yes each unit would owe their portion of the 60-100% funding. But they plan for an hope to keep the HOA at 60%+ of "fully funded" of what assessors estimate we will need in the next 5-10 years. So far in the 20 years there was only ONE "capital assessment"...when 4-5 years in the roof had issues. It was a $15K assessment for our unit (we didn't own it then) and the HOA did all the repairs and successfully sued the builder/insurance company and we got $8.5K of that back (nice perk considering we never paid the original amount). But other than that, the HOA manages the budget well and plans for ongoing maintenance, earlier than needed, so that we typically don't get hit with major issues.

I looked at places that were only 10-15% funded, and at 15+ years old, they will be in for more costs in the future if they don't adjust HOA fees to reflect future costs.

But yes a good condo building should be planning for the future and not get hit with massive "capital assessments". Ours has only had one and it was due to the original builder screwing things up and the HOA handled it well and we got most of the costs back.

But just like a regular single family home, where you could have a roof issue, a window issue, a flood because your sump pump stopped working, etc, condos have to plan for those issues. When we owned a house, we also planned for a "What the hell/what if" fund as well---things that you don't anticipate but that can go wrong. Like a faucet that is only 3 years old that developed a slow leak (while you were not even home)---$10K of total damages later. Shit can happen, it just feels like you have less control because in a condo building you don't "manage" it, the HOA and building management does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with condos are the fees

Not really. Those fees include things you no longer need to pay for directly:

HOA fees include
Insurance on condo (except our belongings and $25k deductible)
Alarm system (don't need with 24 hour concierge)
All exterior maintenance ([b]no roof, no painting[/b], no snow shoveling,etc)
Hot water heater is HOA managed (central for the bldg so no leak issues)
No landscaping to manage

Once you consider that the costs are not that much. It balances out with what we paid for our big ass house.

What about the capital assessments? That seems like a bigger issue and they often feel like big surprises. A homeowner doesn't really have any maintenance charges for a roof or painting, other than every 20 years you need a new roof and you may paint your house every 10 years...but i assume a condo also charges the tenants for these things as well with capital assessments.

I realize the situation in Florida is extreme, but obviously tons of people now looking to offload their condos for whatever they can get because the older buildings are getting hit with massive capital calls.

Well yes capital assessments are included. You do have to pay to maintain older buildings. A good condo will keep up with the maintenance and minimize those capital assessments. Just like a 25 year old home can have major added costs. My 4Ksq ft home that is 25 years old, needed a new roof ($40K, trust me I priced around, that was the best price for a reputable place), have to paint every 6-7 years where I am ($15K), I've had to replace 3 windows and doors due to leaks and getting ready with the 25 yo home to replace the rest---so $50-75K, the 25 yo propane tank deteriorated and had to be replaced ($15K+ for the entire project)...and the list goes on. You have those "capital assessments" with a home as well as it ages. And yes Florida is extreme. You have to research when purchasing a condo anywhere. I read the HOA notes for 2-5 years for the 5 places we considered, and ruled out 3 of them due to poor management/maintenance.

But same things can happen to a 10 yo home. Once replaced a roof on that house, because it kept leaking and the builder had done a terrible job, and shingles were wearing down early. So between all the leaks and inside repairs and then the new roof (3 years in), I spent close to $25K on a 10 yo home, something I woudlnt' expect to need to spend until 20+ years, but there I was.

But the beauty of a condo is I no longer have to plan the maintenance...I just pay the HOA fee and it happens automatically. Our building is one of the top 2 in the city that is in the 15+ year age range. Because we spend and maintain well and it's extremely well run. That translates to no hassles.

I'm just curious what you mean by "they are included". My understanding is HOA covers routine maintenance, but if the condo needs a new roof or they have to paint exterior or they are going to remodel the pool and gym, etc., that those fees are levied independently.

Are you saying that for your building they add some $$$ amount into the HOA fee which they will then use for capital assessments, so they never hit you with a $10,000 or $20,000 or whatever bill?

Our HOA plans for "new roof", exterior building maintenance, fixing the pool&hot tub, etc. That is all part of good HOA planning. It's not just insurance and the yearly electrical and the salaries for your building staff....if it's only that, you will be screwed, just like if you own a home and don't plan for future maintenance.

[Anonymous]

How many posters are talking about cities other than DC? All of of this talk of condo fees and assessments and big buildings with elevators etc don't really apply to many folks living here.

In our case, for example, we sold our suburban monstrosity after our youngest went off to college and bought a nice rowhome in one of DC's most walkable and popular areas with an English basement for almost exactly the same price. The basement rental pays for the mortgage, and we get a 3 BR 2.5 BA place for ourselves. Plenty of room and no condo fees . . .

[Anonymous]

Depends on the city!! Dc? Heck no (and I live in DC). NYC? Definitely yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the city!! Dc? Heck no (and I live in DC). NYC? Definitely yes.

Move out then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with condos are the fees

Not really. Those fees include things you no longer need to pay for directly:

HOA fees include
Insurance on condo (except our belongings and $25k deductible)
Alarm system (don't need with 24 hour concierge)
All exterior maintenance ([b]no roof, no painting[/b], no snow shoveling,etc)
Hot water heater is HOA managed (central for the bldg so no leak issues)
No landscaping to manage

Once you consider that the costs are not that much. It balances out with what we paid for our big ass house.

What about the capital assessments? That seems like a bigger issue and they often feel like big surprises. A homeowner doesn't really have any maintenance charges for a roof or painting, other than every 20 years you need a new roof and you may paint your house every 10 years...but i assume a condo also charges the tenants for these things as well with capital assessments.

I realize the situation in Florida is extreme, but obviously tons of people now looking to offload their condos for whatever they can get because the older buildings are getting hit with massive capital calls.

Well yes capital assessments are included. You do have to pay to maintain older buildings. A good condo will keep up with the maintenance and minimize those capital assessments. Just like a 25 year old home can have major added costs. My 4Ksq ft home that is 25 years old, needed a new roof ($40K, trust me I priced around, that was the best price for a reputable place), have to paint every 6-7 years where I am ($15K), I've had to replace 3 windows and doors due to leaks and getting ready with the 25 yo home to replace the rest---so $50-75K, the 25 yo propane tank deteriorated and had to be replaced ($15K+ for the entire project)...and the list goes on. You have those "capital assessments" with a home as well as it ages. And yes Florida is extreme. You have to research when purchasing a condo anywhere. I read the HOA notes for 2-5 years for the 5 places we considered, and ruled out 3 of them due to poor management/maintenance.

But same things can happen to a 10 yo home. Once replaced a roof on that house, because it kept leaking and the builder had done a terrible job, and shingles were wearing down early. So between all the leaks and inside repairs and then the new roof (3 years in), I spent close to $25K on a 10 yo home, something I woudlnt' expect to need to spend until 20+ years, but there I was.

But the beauty of a condo is I no longer have to plan the maintenance...I just pay the HOA fee and it happens automatically. Our building is one of the top 2 in the city that is in the 15+ year age range. Because we spend and maintain well and it's extremely well run. That translates to no hassles.

I'm just curious what you mean by "they are included". My understanding is HOA covers routine maintenance, but if the condo needs a new roof or they have to paint exterior or they are going to remodel the pool and gym, etc., that those fees are levied independently.

Are you saying that for your building they add some $$$ amount into the HOA fee which they will then use for capital assessments, so they never hit you with a $10,000 or $20,000 or whatever bill?

Only if poorly managed. I have been president of my building for 20 years. I would consider a special assessment to be a HUGE failure. We keep ample reserves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with condos are the fees

Not really. Those fees include things you no longer need to pay for directly:

HOA fees include
Insurance on condo (except our belongings and $25k deductible)
Alarm system (don't need with 24 hour concierge)
All exterior maintenance ([b]no roof, no painting[/b], no snow shoveling,etc)
Hot water heater is HOA managed (central for the bldg so no leak issues)
No landscaping to manage

Once you consider that the costs are not that much. It balances out with what we paid for our big ass house.

What about the capital assessments? That seems like a bigger issue and they often feel like big surprises. A homeowner doesn't really have any maintenance charges for a roof or painting, other than every 20 years you need a new roof and you may paint your house every 10 years...but i assume a condo also charges the tenants for these things as well with capital assessments.

I realize the situation in Florida is extreme, but obviously tons of people now looking to offload their condos for whatever they can get because the older buildings are getting hit with massive capital calls.

Well yes capital assessments are included. You do have to pay to maintain older buildings. A good condo will keep up with the maintenance and minimize those capital assessments. Just like a 25 year old home can have major added costs. My 4Ksq ft home that is 25 years old, needed a new roof ($40K, trust me I priced around, that was the best price for a reputable place), have to paint every 6-7 years where I am ($15K), I've had to replace 3 windows and doors due to leaks and getting ready with the 25 yo home to replace the rest---so $50-75K, the 25 yo propane tank deteriorated and had to be replaced ($15K+ for the entire project)...and the list goes on. You have those "capital assessments" with a home as well as it ages. And yes Florida is extreme. You have to research when purchasing a condo anywhere. I read the HOA notes for 2-5 years for the 5 places we considered, and ruled out 3 of them due to poor management/maintenance.

But same things can happen to a 10 yo home. Once replaced a roof on that house, because it kept leaking and the builder had done a terrible job, and shingles were wearing down early. So between all the leaks and inside repairs and then the new roof (3 years in), I spent close to $25K on a 10 yo home, something I woudlnt' expect to need to spend until 20+ years, but there I was.

But the beauty of a condo is I no longer have to plan the maintenance...I just pay the HOA fee and it happens automatically. Our building is one of the top 2 in the city that is in the 15+ year age range. Because we spend and maintain well and it's extremely well run. That translates to no hassles.

I'm just curious what you mean by "they are included". My understanding is HOA covers routine maintenance, but if the condo needs a new roof or they have to paint exterior or they are going to remodel the pool and gym, etc., that those fees are levied independently.

Are you saying that for your building they add some $$$ amount into the HOA fee which they will then use for capital assessments, so they never hit you with a $10,000 or $20,000 or whatever bill?

Correct. My DC condo which I’ll likely move into when kids go to college has had annual 1-3% increases in condo dues but in 18 years has never had a special assessment and has replaced the elevators, all HVAC units, redone the roof and remodeled the pool.

That said and this is why it’s so annoying to have non-DC people chiming in, whereas my MoCo House has doubled in value the DC condo is only worth about 20% more than we paid. But the tenants have paid down the mortgage and I’m overall glad i own it.

I have the same questions though about kids visiting/hosting. But for me, not having all the house maintenance and being able to walk everywhere will be awesome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with condos are the fees

Not really. Those fees include things you no longer need to pay for directly:

HOA fees include
Insurance on condo (except our belongings and $25k deductible)
Alarm system (don't need with 24 hour concierge)
All exterior maintenance ([b]no roof, no painting[/b], no snow shoveling,etc)
Hot water heater is HOA managed (central for the bldg so no leak issues)
No landscaping to manage

Once you consider that the costs are not that much. It balances out with what we paid for our big ass house.

What about the capital assessments? That seems like a bigger issue and they often feel like big surprises. A homeowner doesn't really have any maintenance charges for a roof or painting, other than every 20 years you need a new roof and you may paint your house every 10 years...but i assume a condo also charges the tenants for these things as well with capital assessments.

I realize the situation in Florida is extreme, but obviously tons of people now looking to offload their condos for whatever they can get because the older buildings are getting hit with massive capital calls.

Well yes capital assessments are included. You do have to pay to maintain older buildings. A good condo will keep up with the maintenance and minimize those capital assessments. Just like a 25 year old home can have major added costs. My 4Ksq ft home that is 25 years old, needed a new roof ($40K, trust me I priced around, that was the best price for a reputable place), have to paint every 6-7 years where I am ($15K), I've had to replace 3 windows and doors due to leaks and getting ready with the 25 yo home to replace the rest---so $50-75K, the 25 yo propane tank deteriorated and had to be replaced ($15K+ for the entire project)...and the list goes on. You have those "capital assessments" with a home as well as it ages. And yes Florida is extreme. You have to research when purchasing a condo anywhere. I read the HOA notes for 2-5 years for the 5 places we considered, and ruled out 3 of them due to poor management/maintenance.

But same things can happen to a 10 yo home. Once replaced a roof on that house, because it kept leaking and the builder had done a terrible job, and shingles were wearing down early. So between all the leaks and inside repairs and then the new roof (3 years in), I spent close to $25K on a 10 yo home, something I woudlnt' expect to need to spend until 20+ years, but there I was.

But the beauty of a condo is I no longer have to plan the maintenance...I just pay the HOA fee and it happens automatically. Our building is one of the top 2 in the city that is in the 15+ year age range. Because we spend and maintain well and it's extremely well run. That translates to no hassles.

I'm just curious what you mean by "they are included". My understanding is HOA covers routine maintenance, but if the condo needs a new roof or they have to paint exterior or they are going to remodel the pool and gym, etc., that those fees are levied independently.

Are you saying that for your building they add some $$$ amount into the HOA fee which they will then use for capital assessments, so they never hit you with a $10,000 or $20,000 or whatever bill?

Only if poorly managed. I have been president of my building for 20 years. I would consider a special assessment to be a HUGE failure. We keep ample reserves.

Exactly! Because new garage door, new roof, exterior building envelope maintenance, new Hot water system, new HVAC systems, etc are all literally things you can and should plan for. A special assessment is only for a major issue that was unpredictable. That is why an HOA should be 50-60%+ "fully funded" and why you do assessments every 3-5 years to determine what your future assessments will be----so you can plan and avoid a huge special assessment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many posters are talking about cities other than DC? All of of this talk of condo fees and assessments and big buildings with elevators etc don't really apply to many folks living here.

In our case, for example, we sold our suburban monstrosity after our youngest went off to college and bought a nice rowhome in one of DC's most walkable and popular areas with an English basement for almost exactly the same price. The basement rental pays for the mortgage, and we get a 3 BR 2.5 BA place for ourselves. Plenty of room and no condo fees . . .

Yes, but you still have to manage all the maintenance. One of the reasons many of us want those HOA/Condo fees is so we no longer have to deal with all of that. I don't want to be 65+ and calling the roofer or HVAC person to fix things/install a new system/roof. I want to pay someone to manage it for me and just have it happen (I'm on the 14 floor of a 25 floor bldg, so a "leak in the roof" doesn't directly impact me either, I will have to pay my part to fix it but I don't have to deal with the leak in my unit typically)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many posters are talking about cities other than DC? All of of this talk of condo fees and assessments and big buildings with elevators etc don't really apply to many folks living here.

In our case, for example, we sold our suburban monstrosity after our youngest went off to college and bought a nice rowhome in one of DC's most walkable and popular areas with an English basement for almost exactly the same price. The basement rental pays for the mortgage, and we get a 3 BR 2.5 BA place for ourselves. Plenty of room and no condo fees . . .

Cool story bro. DC has a lot of condos of the type the OP is discussing. 9 floors, 100-300 units, elevators etc. Not sure why you think your experience buying a townhouse with a rental property is relevant.

[Anonymous]

City condo all the way with the expectation that adult kids would host. If only............