Can Oberlin ever change its image as a failed school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting thread. Thank you OP for starting this thread with a well thought-out post.

Oberlin College is not a failed school, although it is widely viewed as an ultra-liberal school with an extremist culture in which intellectual growth & maturation is limited by an intolerance for dissenting points of view. Oberlin College is the ultimate MAGA-type indoctrination camp for immature liberal believers. Maturation is not developed from comfort; it is earned by surviving through struggles, turmoil and discomfort.

Nevertheless, Oberlin College is an option that should be preserved among American educational institutions. Personally, I am a moderate on most issues and I learn from opposing points of view. While I do not enjoy the extremist domination of either of our two main political parties, extremist activists are an important part of any evolving environment.

Attending school in an ideologically conformist environment, which in this case is an ultra-liberal culture, delays one's maturation until entering the real world after college.

So much Chat.

Incorrect, but you do highlight the issue well by your childish, closed-minded response. Are you a member of the Oberlin College family ?

At least you actually wrote that post. The name-calling gives it away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting thread. Thank you OP for starting this thread with a well thought-out post.

Oberlin College is not a failed school, although it is widely viewed as an ultra-liberal school with an extremist culture in which intellectual growth & maturation is limited by an intolerance for dissenting points of view. Oberlin College is the ultimate MAGA-type indoctrination camp for immature liberal believers. Maturation is not developed from comfort; it is earned by surviving through struggles, turmoil and discomfort.

Nevertheless, Oberlin College is an option that should be preserved among American educational institutions. Personally, I am a moderate on most issues and I learn from opposing points of view. While I do not enjoy the extremist domination of either of our two main political parties, extremist activists are an important part of any evolving environment.

Attending school in an ideologically conformist environment, which in this case is an ultra-liberal culture, delays one's maturation until entering the real world after college.

So much Chat.

Incorrect, but you do highlight the issue well by your childish, closed-minded response. Are you a member of the Oberlin College family ?

At least you actually wrote that post. The name-calling gives it away.

Once again, you are incorrect. It is easy to recognize that the OP is a much better writer than I am.

If you are a member of the Oberlin College family, your immature, simplistic, emotional responses do suggest that Oberlin may indeed be a failed school.

[Anonymous]

So: insider here. Yes, this was kicked off by a troll, but in case anyone non-bot is reading: Oberlin has never been as failed as we appeared to be; there have always been far more academically serious and smart students doing terrific work and heading off to great places than were visible in culture-war-addled media. The Gibsons case capped off many years of unfortunate publicity (cultural appropriation in the dining hall, apparently mandatory trigger warnings, etc) and the originating event occurred when we had a president who was divorcing, openly seeking employment elsewhere, and totally checked out from campus, together with a self-serving and incompetent dean who got together with our worst and wokest administrators, and, later on, terrible lawyers to construct the ensuing disaster.

That was all a long time ago. We have a new president, and we did a great job coming through the pandemic with enrollment and community intact. Oberlin continues to be a terrific school, especially for students with multiple strong interests: you can do more than one thing as an undergraduate, and our best students often do. Especially science + arts.

We managed to not do anything too embarrassing during the most recent round of protests, in part due to a lot of policy changes and some greater calmness at the center of the college, and I hear the president's triplets will be attending: let's hope that means she'll be here another 4 years?

Test optional bums me out, I admit, but I don't think we can give that up economically at this point. Also the recent warfare over bathroom signs is nuts but the Ohio legislature sure teed up the ball for that...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay, so don't send your kid there. It's a fine school for the right kind of student.

This is a good point.

From a marketplace perspective, the challenge the school faces is whether the school can continue to attract sufficient numbers of the “right kind of students”. The school is near the bottom in social mobility scores, an uncomfortable fact with a school with a huge emphasis on social justice. The school has very few Pell Grant recipients, maybe not so surprising for a private school in rural Ohio with a conservatory. Not sure what the school’s strategic plans are, but it is not in a secure place. Relying on the “right” full pay students is a fragile business model. And the rankings don’t help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not a choice school.
So many things not going for it.
Of my parent social circle, the most academically challenged child went to Oberlin. Couldn't get in anywhere else.

Cool story bro.

It has a 34% acceptance rate for heaven's sake. It is a selective school. We were impressed by the STEM tour and the conservatory when we visited. DC ended up EDing elsewhere but if we had chased merit, it would have been a strong contender.

[Anonymous]

Oberlin has a very nice junior visit program. Check it out. My kid was impressed and liked the campus and offerings a lot. He will be applying.

It remains a popular college at our high school, especially for kids who want to do serious, high-level music and also traditional liberal arts (bio, English, math, comp science etc).

I agree it has a reputation problem but we should all know that what is written in the nypost doesn’t usually reflect reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, so don't send your kid there. It's a fine school for the right kind of student.

This is a good point.

From a marketplace perspective, the challenge the school faces is whether the school can continue to attract sufficient numbers of the “right kind of students”. The school is near the bottom in social mobility scores, an uncomfortable fact with a school with a huge emphasis on social justice. The school has very few Pell Grant recipients, maybe not so surprising for a private school in rural Ohio with a conservatory. Not sure what the school’s strategic plans are, but it is not in a secure place. Relying on the “right” full pay students is a fragile business model. And the rankings don’t help.

RIGHT. Insider continues ranting. I meant to add something on class issues. Oberlin has always, or at least for the last 60 years, been far more middle-class than e.g. the WASP schools. Alumni going into academia, teaching, writing, social work etc. rather than Wall Street means they don't have as much money to give; the eternal radicalism has meant fewer of them want to. Lower endowment, lower alumni donation rate used to hit our US News ranking quite hard.

But lower endowment and fewer full-pay students have also meant that we are unable to support the same fraction of full-ride-equivalent financial aid students. So when everyone starts looking at Pell grant numbers as the prime indicator of economic diversity on campuses (hint: it's easy to look up), we were going to be screwed in the rankings again. Fewer poor students, but also fewer rich students. Amherst, e.g., is like 25% Pell and tons and tons of 1% or 0.1% families: hoo boy that's gonna be quite a social environment to navigate... for both sides. And leaves out a lot of families in prime DCUM ranges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, so don't send your kid there. It's a fine school for the right kind of student.

This is a good point.

From a marketplace perspective, the challenge the school faces is whether the school can continue to attract sufficient numbers of the “right kind of students”. The school is near the bottom in social mobility scores, an uncomfortable fact with a school with a huge emphasis on social justice. The school has very few Pell Grant recipients, maybe not so surprising for a private school in rural Ohio with a conservatory. Not sure what the school’s strategic plans are, but it is not in a secure place. Relying on the “right” full pay students is a fragile business model. And the rankings don’t help.

RIGHT. Insider continues ranting. I meant to add something on class issues. Oberlin has always, or at least for the last 60 years, been far more middle-class than e.g. the WASP schools. Alumni going into academia, teaching, writing, social work etc. rather than Wall Street means they don't have as much money to give; the eternal radicalism has meant fewer of them want to. Lower endowment, lower alumni donation rate used to hit our US News ranking quite hard.

But lower endowment and fewer full-pay students have also meant that we are unable to support the same fraction of full-ride-equivalent financial aid students. So when everyone starts looking at Pell grant numbers as the prime indicator of economic diversity on campuses (hint: it's easy to look up), we were going to be screwed in the rankings again. Fewer poor students, but also fewer rich students. Amherst, e.g., is like 25% Pell and tons and tons of 1% or 0.1% families: hoo boy that's gonna be quite a social environment to navigate... for both sides. And leaves out a lot of families in prime DCUM ranges.

Most WASP Alum have no interest in Wall Street. There's many other careers that can set you up for fulfilling pay. The issue is that going to a school like Oberlin teaches you that you can only have Wall Street or poverty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not a choice school.
So many things not going for it.
Of my parent social circle, the most academically challenged child went to Oberlin. Couldn't get in anywhere else.

Cool story bro.

It has a 34% acceptance rate for heaven's sake. It is a selective school. We were impressed by the STEM tour and the conservatory when we visited. DC ended up EDing elsewhere but if we had chased merit, it would have been a strong contender.

34% acceptance rate is considered selective?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So: insider here. Yes, this was kicked off by a troll, but in case anyone non-bot is reading: Oberlin has never been as failed as we appeared to be; there have always been far more academically serious and smart students doing terrific work and heading off to great places than were visible in culture-war-addled media. The Gibsons case capped off many years of unfortunate publicity (cultural appropriation in the dining hall, apparently mandatory trigger warnings, etc) and the originating event occurred when we had a president who was divorcing, openly seeking employment elsewhere, and totally checked out from campus, together with a self-serving and incompetent dean who got together with our worst and wokest administrators, and, later on, terrible lawyers to construct the ensuing disaster.

That was all a long time ago. We have a new president, and we did a great job coming through the pandemic with enrollment and community intact. Oberlin continues to be a terrific school, especially for students with multiple strong interests: you can do more than one thing as an undergraduate, and our best students often do. Especially science + arts.

We managed to not do anything too embarrassing during the most recent round of protests, in part due to a lot of policy changes and some greater calmness at the center of the college, and I hear the president's triplets will be attending: let's hope that means she'll be here another 4 years?

Test optional bums me out, I admit, but I don't think we can give that up economically at this point. Also the recent warfare over bathroom signs is nuts but the Ohio legislature sure teed up the ball for that...

The first highlighted line of your post indicates a hostile attitude by insulting other posters as trolls or bots. This is not an intelligent way to make friends or to influence readers. You then proceed to blame "unfortunate publicity" (without challenging the veracity of that "unfortunate publicity" regarding multiple events), personal problems of the then school president, the lack of competency of a former dean, and bad lawyers who represented Oberlin College. None of this is persuasive; it is just immature writing which makes excuses and shifts blame. This type of response validates the OP's label of Oberlin College as a "failed school".

[Anonymous]

Are you kidding? OP called another poster a dumba$$ on page two and now you’re all about politeness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you kidding? OP called another poster a dumba$$ on page two and now you’re all about politeness?

I am neither the OP or a responder trying to defend Oberlin College.

No, I am not "all about politeness", I am about encouraging sincere, intelligent responses from all points of view.

The Gibson Bakery incident occurred less than 9 years ago and continued on until April & May of 2024--so it is not that dated of a matter. Read the Wikipedia entry about Gibson's Bakery v. Oberlin College. The attempted defense by Oberlin College is outrageous in light of the facts of the case. If one doesn't have feelings about Oberlin College, I suspect that will change after reading the Wikipedia entry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson%27s_Bakery_v._Oberlin_College

Hard to feel any sympathy for Oberlin College and difficult to respect the failed defense tactics of the Oberlin College administration and attorneys.

[Anonymous]

And FWIW, I know the mother of a recently graduated Oberlin College baseball player who shared that the woke environment still exists and that there is a divide between athletes and the rest of the student body. While probably not universally true, it is a significant divide.

[Anonymous]

Oberlin problem isn’t that it is woke bakery hating . If Oberlin was a foul mouth breathing bastion of MAGA Christian crap it would be even worse off. Its problem is that it is expensive and struggling like many SLACs outside the top 10. At to this it’s in Ohio which is increasingly rivaling Indiana as the arm pit of the Midwest. Kenyon is also having problems.

Thank the opioid crisis, MAGA cult and racist Christian right for making Ohio one of the worst states to live in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oberlin problem isn’t that it is woke bakery hating . If Oberlin was a foul mouth breathing bastion of MAGA Christian crap it would be even worse off. Its problem is that it is expensive and struggling like many SLACs outside the top 10. At to this it’s in Ohio which is increasingly rivaling Indiana as the arm pit of the Midwest. Kenyon is also having problems.

Thank the opioid crisis, MAGA cult and racist Christian right for making Ohio one of the worst states to live in.

This is all true, Oberlin is weathering it fairly well considering.