Metro vs Paramount (vs other top clubs)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Very insightful! On the Va side what clubs do you think fall in the “historically performed well” category?

Before answering, realize that there are some Paramount/Metro fans here that will tell you that its only those clubs that "perform well", but but the reality is that covers maybe 40 players in an age group and there a lot more quality players than that in the region.

Assuming you are looking for an open-level CHRVA team and not an open-level national team, (because there is really only 1-2 of those in each age group right now).

Younger Ages: American, MOJO, VA Juniors
Older Ages: VA Elite, VA Juniors, Loudon Elite

Anonymous wrote:Do you think the economy will have any impact on turnout?

It definitely is, at least from what we can see this year. DD has been to clinics/open gyms at a number of clubs. The lower cost clubs with a good track record seem to have more players in their gyms. We've seen some of the "top" players from other clubs in those gyms as well.

If you go to the MD side its even more pronounced. We've run into players who are driving a long way to try to find a lower cost club option than the top VA clubs. Lots of families are concerned that spending $6,500+ on volleyball this year may not be an option. The MD side has more options at a lower price point. Anecdotally, it seems to be impacting the close in clubs more.

Anonymous wrote:If your DD had an offer from Metro and Paramount, which one would you take?

Metro. The earlier posts in this thread about turnover at Paramount matched our understanding of what happens every year. We know far too many former Paramount players that tell us that even though they won, it wasn't worth it. Playing on a 3s team with that same environment sounds unappealing to say the least.

I don't think we would take an offer from the new Metro National teams though, at least not in the first year. Except for the U17 age, where the players at that level are all well known and heavily recruited to player together, its a big gamble to assume that the National teams will be at the same competitive level as other top open-level teams in the region. There will certainly be some players that jump from other clubs to Metro, but there are also likely existing Metro travel players that won't make the travel team that will be unwilling to take a National offer.

Are you seriously placing MOJO on the list of open-level clubs? They are middle of the pack at best. They might improve at the older ages, but their younger age teams are not that good (and definitely not open-level). Maybe this was a typo and you wanted to write MOCO.

For U12-U14? Yes, at least when compared to the other options on the VA side (which this post was about). As I said, the list wasn't for open-level national teams, it was for open-level CHRVA teams. There aren't that many clubs on the VA side that compete at the open level in CHRVA and/or go for regional bids. In 2024 MOJO had teams in bids at U12-U14. Last year they didn't, but historically they have done pretty well at that age group (especially before that disaster that was ECP). If you look at Capitol Hill, American, VA Juniors and MOJO were all in open at U13/U14 the last few years. The only other VA club that was at the level was Loudon Elite at U14.

Compared to the rest of the region, it's true that MOJO is middle of the pack. The MD and DE teams are generally much stronger at the younger ages with MVSA, MD Jrs, MOCO, DE Jrs and Premier usually all having stronger teams than MOJO. But in a field of limited options, I'm not sure who else you would include on the VA side for the younger age group?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Very insightful! On the Va side what clubs do you think fall in the “historically performed well” category?

Before answering, realize that there are some Paramount/Metro fans here that will tell you that its only those clubs that "perform well", but but the reality is that covers maybe 40 players in an age group and there a lot more quality players than that in the region.

Assuming you are looking for an open-level CHRVA team and not an open-level national team, (because there is really only 1-2 of those in each age group right now).

Younger Ages: American, MOJO, VA Juniors
Older Ages: VA Elite, VA Juniors, Loudon Elite

Anonymous wrote:Do you think the economy will have any impact on turnout?

It definitely is, at least from what we can see this year. DD has been to clinics/open gyms at a number of clubs. The lower cost clubs with a good track record seem to have more players in their gyms. We've seen some of the "top" players from other clubs in those gyms as well.

If you go to the MD side its even more pronounced. We've run into players who are driving a long way to try to find a lower cost club option than the top VA clubs. Lots of families are concerned that spending $6,500+ on volleyball this year may not be an option. The MD side has more options at a lower price point. Anecdotally, it seems to be impacting the close in clubs more.

Anonymous wrote:If your DD had an offer from Metro and Paramount, which one would you take?

Metro. The earlier posts in this thread about turnover at Paramount matched our understanding of what happens every year. We know far too many former Paramount players that tell us that even though they won, it wasn't worth it. Playing on a 3s team with that same environment sounds unappealing to say the least.

I don't think we would take an offer from the new Metro National teams though, at least not in the first year. Except for the U17 age, where the players at that level are all well known and heavily recruited to player together, its a big gamble to assume that the National teams will be at the same competitive level as other top open-level teams in the region. There will certainly be some players that jump from other clubs to Metro, but there are also likely existing Metro travel players that won't make the travel team that will be unwilling to take a National offer.

Are you seriously placing MOJO on the list of open-level clubs? They are middle of the pack at best. They might improve at the older ages, but their younger age teams are not that good (and definitely not open-level). Maybe this was a typo and you wanted to write MOCO.

For U12-U14? Yes, at least when compared to the other options on the VA side (which this post was about). As I said, the list wasn't for open-level national teams, it was for open-level CHRVA teams. There aren't that many clubs on the VA side that compete at the open level in CHRVA and/or go for regional bids. In 2024 MOJO had teams in bids at U12-U14. Last year they didn't, but historically they have done pretty well at that age group (especially before that disaster that was ECP). If you look at Capitol Hill, American, VA Juniors and MOJO were all in open at U13/U14 the last few years. The only other VA club that was at the level was Loudon Elite at U14.

Compared to the rest of the region, it's true that MOJO is middle of the pack. The MD and DE teams are generally much stronger at the younger ages with MVSA, MD Jrs, MOCO, DE Jrs and Premier usually all having stronger teams than MOJO. But in a field of limited options, I'm not sure who else you would include on the VA side for the younger age group?

But there is a difference between whether they play open and whether they SHOULD play open. Just because MOJO decided to sign up for the open level, it doesn't mean they are competitive at that level. This is what What I noticed with our team: every time we play close to our (true) level, the games are more competitive and the players have a lot of fun, even when they lose the game. When we pretend to play a higher level volleyball, we are being crushed, the games suck, and the girls are demoralized. There are good reasons to play close to your level, rather than get the players and the parents frustrated.

[Anonymous]

But there is a difference between whether they play open and whether they SHOULD play open. Just because MOJO decided to sign up for the open level, it doesn't mean they are competitive at that level. This is what What I noticed with our team: every time we play close to our (true) level, the games are more competitive and the players have a lot of fun, even when they lose the game. When we pretend to play a higher level volleyball, we are being crushed, the games suck, and the girls are demoralized. There are good reasons to play close to your level, rather than get the players and the parents frustrated.

So, back to the question, who would you suggest in northern Va as high performing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But there is a difference between whether they play open and whether they SHOULD play open. Just because MOJO decided to sign up for the open level, it doesn't mean they are competitive at that level. This is what What I noticed with our team: every time we play close to our (true) level, the games are more competitive and the players have a lot of fun, even when they lose the game. When we pretend to play a higher level volleyball, we are being crushed, the games suck, and the girls are demoralized. There are good reasons to play close to your level, rather than get the players and the parents frustrated.

So, back to the question, who would you suggest in northern Va as high performing?

1. Paramount
2. VA Juniors
3. VA Elites
4. American

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But there is a difference between whether they play open and whether they SHOULD play open. Just because MOJO decided to sign up for the open level, it doesn't mean they are competitive at that level. This is what What I noticed with our team: every time we play close to our (true) level, the games are more competitive and the players have a lot of fun, even when they lose the game. When we pretend to play a higher level volleyball, we are being crushed, the games suck, and the girls are demoralized. There are good reasons to play close to your level, rather than get the players and the parents frustrated.

So, back to the question, who would you suggest in northern Va as high performing?

1. Paramount
2. VA Juniors
3. VA Elites
4. American

I don't know that I would put VA Elite as #3. They occasionally have a strong team in a particular age group, but American, Loudoun Elite, Libero, and others had higher national rankings in most age groups last season. And if you include Blue Ridge as "northern VA", they would be #2 in my list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But there is a difference between whether they play open and whether they SHOULD play open. Just because MOJO decided to sign up for the open level, it doesn't mean they are competitive at that level. This is what What I noticed with our team: every time we play close to our (true) level, the games are more competitive and the players have a lot of fun, even when they lose the game. When we pretend to play a higher level volleyball, we are being crushed, the games suck, and the girls are demoralized. There are good reasons to play close to your level, rather than get the players and the parents frustrated.

So, back to the question, who would you suggest in northern Va as high performing?

1. Paramount
2. VA Juniors
3. VA Elites
4. American

I don't know that I would put VA Elite as #3. They occasionally have a strong team in a particular age group, but American, Loudoun Elite, Libero, and others had higher national rankings in most age groups last season. And if you include Blue Ridge as "northern VA", they would be #2 in my list.

Overall, Blue Ridge usually outperforms Paramount. Over the past two years the Blue Ridge teams outranked Paramount 1s in nearly all age groups at least once and sometimes twice. They are also the only competitive beach program in the area and as a result their players generally develop as very good all around volleyball players, especially at the younger ages. Some players spend their entire club career with them and their training success really shows. Despite being in a much smaller population area they compete with all of the top teams in the region.

Because Blue Ridge doesn't generally pursue USAV bids and Paramount uses bids as their main marketing draw, Blue Ridge often gets overshadowed. When they do go for bids they usually win one. And in head to head matches Blue Ridge does very well against Paramount especially at the youngest and oldest ages. Plus they are less than half the cost of Paramount.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But there is a difference between whether they play open and whether they SHOULD play open. Just because MOJO decided to sign up for the open level, it doesn't mean they are competitive at that level. This is what What I noticed with our team: every time we play close to our (true) level, the games are more competitive and the players have a lot of fun, even when they lose the game. When we pretend to play a higher level volleyball, we are being crushed, the games suck, and the girls are demoralized. There are good reasons to play close to your level, rather than get the players and the parents frustrated.

So, back to the question, who would you suggest in northern Va as high performing?

1. Paramount
2. VA Juniors
3. VA Elites
4. American

I don't know that I would put VA Elite as #3. They occasionally have a strong team in a particular age group, but American, Loudoun Elite, Libero, and others had higher national rankings in most age groups last season. And if you include Blue Ridge as "northern VA", they would be #2 in my list.

Overall, Blue Ridge usually outperforms Paramount. Over the past two years the Blue Ridge teams outranked Paramount 1s in nearly all age groups at least once and sometimes twice. They are also the only competitive beach program in the area and as a result their players generally develop as very good all around volleyball players, especially at the younger ages. Some players spend their entire club career with them and their training success really shows. Despite being in a much smaller population area they compete with all of the top teams in the region.

Because Blue Ridge doesn't generally pursue USAV bids and Paramount uses bids as their main marketing draw, Blue Ridge often gets overshadowed. When they do go for bids they usually win one. And in head to head matches Blue Ridge does very well against Paramount especially at the youngest and oldest ages. Plus they are less than half the cost of Paramount.

Blue Ridge runs a great program. Their combination of indoor and beach is wonderful. Every club should consider doing indoor and beach together. Wish there is another club close to DC doing that.

[Anonymous]

Been very very quiet in this thread. Did the one upmanship better out two clubs go away or still sleeping on HS szn?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Been very very quiet in this thread. Did the one upmanship better out two clubs go away or still sleeping on HS szn?

It’ll be interesting to see some analysis of rosters after tryouts. Will the trend of significant numbers of Paramount players leaving the club continue? Will the Metro National teams attract top players from other clubs? Will any players be moved from Metro Travel to Metro National teams? There are rumors that many of the key players from last year’s Metro 17 Travel team are going to leave early for college, so what will the 18 Travel team look like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Been very very quiet in this thread. Did the one upmanship better out two clubs go away or still sleeping on HS szn?

It’ll be interesting to see some analysis of rosters after tryouts. Will the trend of significant numbers of Paramount players leaving the club continue? Will the Metro National teams attract top players from other clubs? Will any players be moved from Metro Travel to Metro National teams? There are rumors that many of the key players from last year’s Metro 17 Travel team are going to leave early for college, so what will the 18 Travel team look like?

Rumor mill is strong that there will be changes to these teams but rumors only become facts when rosters are posted. Until then rumors be rumoring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Been very very quiet in this thread. Did the one upmanship better out two clubs go away or still sleeping on HS szn?

It’ll be interesting to see some analysis of rosters after tryouts. Will the trend of significant numbers of Paramount players leaving the club continue? Will the Metro National teams attract top players from other clubs? Will any players be moved from Metro Travel to Metro National teams? There are rumors that many of the key players from last year’s Metro 17 Travel team are going to leave early for college, so what will the 18 Travel team look like?

What is involved in the process to leave early for college?

What is the benefit for players in terms of playing time and development?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Been very very quiet in this thread. Did the one upmanship better out two clubs go away or still sleeping on HS szn?

It’ll be interesting to see some analysis of rosters after tryouts. Will the trend of significant numbers of Paramount players leaving the club continue? Will the Metro National teams attract top players from other clubs? Will any players be moved from Metro Travel to Metro National teams? There are rumors that many of the key players from last year’s Metro 17 Travel team are going to leave early for college, so what will the 18 Travel team look like?

What is involved in the process to leave early for college?

What is the benefit for players in terms of playing time and development?

The benefit for the college team is that they start the training early with that team. Only you and your family can answer if leaving senior year for any sport is the right move for your kid.

[Anonymous]

^ I’ve known athletes in other sports that did this. It involved online classes and early HS graduation.

[Anonymous]

Yes I've heard most of the committed players on Metro Travel will be leaving early for college. So who will be left for 18s team? Maybe now there is opportunity for open spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes I've heard most of the committed players on Metro Travel will be leaving early for college. So who will be left for 18s team? Maybe now there is opportunity for open spots.

Two years ago when the club director was still coaching 18s and several players left early, she pulled a few players eligible to play 17s to play for 18s. Last season it wasn’t really an issue because only one of the Metro 2025s went early and the players who played 18s the year prior, played another season of 18s. If the rumors are true and a lot of the rising 18s aren’t playing club, I’m guessing now that she’s coaching 17s, she won’t let the 18s coach pull up any of the players from 17s.