NCAP Swim School – Not a good fit for neurodivergent kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I pop up into this thread every couple days as the parent of an asd adhd teen, and I still can’t believe there are posters (more than one now!) who think there is any blame to be laid at the swim school because low wage workers weren’t able to pivot on the spot to adapt to a non disclosed disability in a safety-heightened environment. This is bonkers! Can parents really go through life with this kind of thinking? Special needs or otherwise?

To the poster who thinks it’s no big deal for swim instructors to be trained in this and be able to adapt on the spot….. if it’s sp easy to teach a sn kid to swim, why aren’t you doing it? Swim instruction takes a certain skill set. And obviously special needs teaching swim is another specific skill set. You think someone making $18 an hour at a local pool should have all these skill sets and continue to work in this crappy job? Again, if you think it’s so easy to train up on both these skills, there’s nothing stopping you the parent from teaching it. But obviously you think it requires a special skill since you’re not doing it yourself.

Moreover, this forum is infamous for saying that no two cases of autism look alike. If no two cases look alike, how the heck would a swim instructor who doesn’t specialize in special needs be able to immediately pivot to what your kid needs? In an unsafe setting at that?

I just can’t even with this thread.

You have to top this with most swim classes are 4-8 kids, some 12, so stopping to work on behavior for one child for a 30 minute class is unreasonable. Many of us have gone through our kids not doing well in group classes. We find adapative classes, private lessons or wait till they can better handle it or teach ourselves. Its a safety issue and these aren't OT's or ABA therapists. Many during the summer are teens or college kids.

I understand where you're coming from, especially about the real challenges that low-wage workers and swim instructors face. But this conversation isn't about blaming individuals—it's about what swim schools, as public accommodations, are legally required to do under Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).

There’s clear legal precedent showing that swim programs must consider and, when reasonable, provide modifications for children with disabilities. The Department of Justice has already settled cases where swim schools and clubs failed to meet these obligations. In one case, a child with ADHD and an intellectual disability was excluded because instructors didn’t adjust their teaching pace. Another case involved a club that had no process at all for families to request accommodations.

You're right—teaching swimming to any child requires a skill set, and teaching kids with disabilities may require another. That’s why the responsibility is on the organization, not the individual instructor, to ensure those skill sets are supported and that there’s a process in place for responding to accommodation needs.

As for parents teaching their kids—many would love to, but swimming is a life-saving skill and often requires professional instruction for safety reasons. We seek out professionals precisely because it’s not easy to do ourselves.

This is absurd. The county and the places have adaptive classes for SN. You cannot expect a company, not organization to cater to one child in a group class. Many if out kids struggle in groups and we try them pull them out for a better fit. Op was a special 1-1 class for a group price. That’s not reasonable. There are no accommodations when it comes to safety. This child needs parents and an ABA therapist to work with them on behavior and safety then try again or adaptive or private lessons.

It is not my expectation. It is the law. Title III applies to private companies. She was not asking for a 1-1 class. She was asking to discuss reasonable accommodations (she mentioned she was willing to stay by the pool to keep his son at the border).

Op is asking for something above the law. Saying that there is a "law" does not mean that OP's absurd demand to ask hourly workers to apply SN training on the fly is a reasonable accommodation. The obligations of private companies on reasonable accommodations are very, very limited and don't just get triggered when a batty and entitled dcum poster cries foul about a private swim company.

[Anonymous]

The ADA does require reasonable accommodations, including in private businesses, when doing so doesn't impose an undue burden. This isn’t about going "above the law"—it is the law. I realize you're not open to rethinking your position, so I’m not going to keep going in circles. Take care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ADA does require reasonable accommodations, including in private businesses, when doing so doesn't impose an undue burden. This isn’t about going "above the law"—it is the law. I realize you're not open to rethinking your position, so I’m not going to keep going in circles. Take care.

Key words being an undue burden. This is where all the conflict is and no wonder, because it’s ambiguous.

My mother-in-law doesn’t believe I’m really working when I tell her I’m working from home. She considers it a small thing for me to talk to her while I’m working. She considers me rude for asking her to stop. People have different ideas of what accommodations cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ADA does require reasonable accommodations, including in private businesses, when doing so doesn't impose an undue burden. This isn’t about going "above the law"—it is the law. I realize you're not open to rethinking your position, so I’m not going to keep going in circles. Take care.

Key words being an undue burden. This is where all the conflict is and no wonder, because it’s ambiguous.

My mother-in-law doesn’t believe I’m really working when I tell her I’m working from home. She considers it a small thing for me to talk to her while I’m working. She considers me rude for asking her to stop. People have different ideas of what accommodations cost.

One has nothing to do with another. The parent wants the class to stop and focus on her child's behavior and correct it. That is her job to get it corrected before she signs him up. This is a group class and her kid cannot handle them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I pop up into this thread every couple days as the parent of an asd adhd teen, and I still can’t believe there are posters (more than one now!) who think there is any blame to be laid at the swim school because low wage workers weren’t able to pivot on the spot to adapt to a non disclosed disability in a safety-heightened environment. This is bonkers! Can parents really go through life with this kind of thinking? Special needs or otherwise?

To the poster who thinks it’s no big deal for swim instructors to be trained in this and be able to adapt on the spot….. if it’s sp easy to teach a sn kid to swim, why aren’t you doing it? Swim instruction takes a certain skill set. And obviously special needs teaching swim is another specific skill set. You think someone making $18 an hour at a local pool should have all these skill sets and continue to work in this crappy job? Again, if you think it’s so easy to train up on both these skills, there’s nothing stopping you the parent from teaching it. But obviously you think it requires a special skill since you’re not doing it yourself.

Moreover, this forum is infamous for saying that no two cases of autism look alike. If no two cases look alike, how the heck would a swim instructor who doesn’t specialize in special needs be able to immediately pivot to what your kid needs? In an unsafe setting at that?

I just can’t even with this thread.

You have to top this with most swim classes are 4-8 kids, some 12, so stopping to work on behavior for one child for a 30 minute class is unreasonable. Many of us have gone through our kids not doing well in group classes. We find adapative classes, private lessons or wait till they can better handle it or teach ourselves. Its a safety issue and these aren't OT's or ABA therapists. Many during the summer are teens or college kids.

I understand where you're coming from, especially about the real challenges that low-wage workers and swim instructors face. But this conversation isn't about blaming individuals—it's about what swim schools, as public accommodations, are legally required to do under Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).

There’s clear legal precedent showing that swim programs must consider and, when reasonable, provide modifications for children with disabilities. The Department of Justice has already settled cases where swim schools and clubs failed to meet these obligations. In one case, a child with ADHD and an intellectual disability was excluded because instructors didn’t adjust their teaching pace. Another case involved a club that had no process at all for families to request accommodations.

You're right—teaching swimming to any child requires a skill set, and teaching kids with disabilities may require another. That’s why the responsibility is on the organization, not the individual instructor, to ensure those skill sets are supported and that there’s a process in place for responding to accommodation needs.

As for parents teaching their kids—many would love to, but swimming is a life-saving skill and often requires professional instruction for safety reasons. We seek out professionals precisely because it’s not easy to do ourselves.

This is absurd. The county and the places have adaptive classes for SN. You cannot expect a company, not organization to cater to one child in a group class. Many if out kids struggle in groups and we try them pull them out for a better fit. Op was a special 1-1 class for a group price. That’s not reasonable. There are no accommodations when it comes to safety. This child needs parents and an ABA therapist to work with them on behavior and safety then try again or adaptive or private lessons.

It is not my expectation. It is the law. Title III applies to private companies. She was not asking for a 1-1 class. She was asking to discuss reasonable accommodations (she mentioned she was willing to stay by the pool to keep his son at the border).

Having a parent by the pool is really disruptive. No swim teacher or coach will allow it. Her child needs 1-1 lessons and she's not willing to pay for them or do adaptive class. Her child is disruptive and its a huge issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ADA does require reasonable accommodations, including in private businesses, when doing so doesn't impose an undue burden. This isn’t about going "above the law"—it is the law. I realize you're not open to rethinking your position, so I’m not going to keep going in circles. Take care.

Key words being an undue burden. This is where all the conflict is and no wonder, because it’s ambiguous.

My mother-in-law doesn’t believe I’m really working when I tell her I’m working from home. She considers it a small thing for me to talk to her while I’m working. She considers me rude for asking her to stop. People have different ideas of what accommodations cost.

Also, we need to separate the two issues here: (1) was it an undue burden for swim teachers to ON THE SPOT shift to another teaching style to accommodate a SN kid that they just learned about while they are in the water. (2) is it an undue burden, with advance notice, to have a swim teacher offer another teaching style to accommodate a SN kid in the future.

Meeting #2 is potentially a reasonable accommodation. My suspicion is that the school would have absolutely met #2, but that OP was such a loon with her on the spot demands that they wanted her to leave the program.

Meeting #2 is nuts and an undue burden. That OP is still pushing for it tells me she's not a parent that a program like this wants to be dealing with. Hence, #1.

[Anonymous]

You are making assumptions about what happened and about the parent’s character, calling her a "loon" without actually knowing the full story. That kind of judgment undermines any serious discussion about what constitutes a reasonable accommodation.

What we do know is that the parent later reached out to the CEO and still got no change in approach. That points to a deeper issue than just an “on-the-spot” demand. If the program had truly been open to Meeting #2—a planned, reasonable accommodation—they had every opportunity to engage at that stage and chose not to. So attacking the parent’s tone or assuming she was irrational doesn’t justify that refusal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I pop up into this thread every couple days as the parent of an asd adhd teen, and I still can’t believe there are posters (more than one now!) who think there is any blame to be laid at the swim school because low wage workers weren’t able to pivot on the spot to adapt to a non disclosed disability in a safety-heightened environment. This is bonkers! Can parents really go through life with this kind of thinking? Special needs or otherwise?

To the poster who thinks it’s no big deal for swim instructors to be trained in this and be able to adapt on the spot….. if it’s sp easy to teach a sn kid to swim, why aren’t you doing it? Swim instruction takes a certain skill set. And obviously special needs teaching swim is another specific skill set. You think someone making $18 an hour at a local pool should have all these skill sets and continue to work in this crappy job? Again, if you think it’s so easy to train up on both these skills, there’s nothing stopping you the parent from teaching it. But obviously you think it requires a special skill since you’re not doing it yourself.

Moreover, this forum is infamous for saying that no two cases of autism look alike. If no two cases look alike, how the heck would a swim instructor who doesn’t specialize in special needs be able to immediately pivot to what your kid needs? In an unsafe setting at that?

I just can’t even with this thread.

Here’s a simple and effective breathing exercise to help manage anger and calm your nervous system. It can be done anywhere and takes just a few minutes:

4-7-8 Breathing Technique (Anger Management Focus)

Purpose: Calms the mind, reduces anger, and slows the heart rate.

Steps:

1. Find a comfortable seated or standing position. Relax your shoulders and jaw.
2. Close your eyes if you’re comfortable doing so, or soften your gaze.
3. Inhale through your nose for 4 seconds.
4. Hold your breath for 7 seconds (if this is too long, shorten it to what’s comfortable and gradually build up).
5. Exhale slowly through your mouth for 8 seconds, making a gentle “whoosh” sound.
6. Repeat this cycle 4 times, or until you feel calmer.

Pro Tips:

• Focus your attention on your breath — not the thoughts or situation that caused the anger.
• Imagine releasing the anger and tension as you exhale.
• Do this before responding to a triggering situation.

You actually thought this was a clever response. Ridiculous. And PP is 100% correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I pop up into this thread every couple days as the parent of an asd adhd teen, and I still can’t believe there are posters (more than one now!) who think there is any blame to be laid at the swim school because low wage workers weren’t able to pivot on the spot to adapt to a non disclosed disability in a safety-heightened environment. This is bonkers! Can parents really go through life with this kind of thinking? Special needs or otherwise?

To the poster who thinks it’s no big deal for swim instructors to be trained in this and be able to adapt on the spot….. if it’s sp easy to teach a sn kid to swim, why aren’t you doing it? Swim instruction takes a certain skill set. And obviously special needs teaching swim is another specific skill set. You think someone making $18 an hour at a local pool should have all these skill sets and continue to work in this crappy job? Again, if you think it’s so easy to train up on both these skills, there’s nothing stopping you the parent from teaching it. But obviously you think it requires a special skill since you’re not doing it yourself.

Moreover, this forum is infamous for saying that no two cases of autism look alike. If no two cases look alike, how the heck would a swim instructor who doesn’t specialize in special needs be able to immediately pivot to what your kid needs? In an unsafe setting at that?

I just can’t even with this thread.

You have to top this with most swim classes are 4-8 kids, some 12, so stopping to work on behavior for one child for a 30 minute class is unreasonable. Many of us have gone through our kids not doing well in group classes. We find adapative classes, private lessons or wait till they can better handle it or teach ourselves. Its a safety issue and these aren't OT's or ABA therapists. Many during the summer are teens or college kids.

I understand where you're coming from, especially about the real challenges that low-wage workers and swim instructors face. But this conversation isn't about blaming individuals—it's about what swim schools, as public accommodations, are legally required to do under Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).

There’s clear legal precedent showing that swim programs must consider and, when reasonable, provide modifications for children with disabilities. The Department of Justice has already settled cases where swim schools and clubs failed to meet these obligations. In one case, a child with ADHD and an intellectual disability was excluded because instructors didn’t adjust their teaching pace. Another case involved a club that had no process at all for families to request accommodations.

You're right—teaching swimming to any child requires a skill set, and teaching kids with disabilities may require another. That’s why the responsibility is on the organization, not the individual instructor, to ensure those skill sets are supported and that there’s a process in place for responding to accommodation needs.

As for parents teaching their kids—many would love to, but swimming is a life-saving skill and often requires professional instruction for safety reasons. We seek out professionals precisely because it’s not easy to do ourselves.

This is absurd. The county and the places have adaptive classes for SN. You cannot expect a company, not organization to cater to one child in a group class. Many if out kids struggle in groups and we try them pull them out for a better fit. Op was a special 1-1 class for a group price. That’s not reasonable. There are no accommodations when it comes to safety. This child needs parents and an ABA therapist to work with them on behavior and safety then try again or adaptive or private lessons.

It is not my expectation. It is the law. Title III applies to private companies. She was not asking for a 1-1 class. She was asking to discuss reasonable accommodations (she mentioned she was willing to stay by the pool to keep his son at the border).

That’s not a reasonable expectation and this is not an appropriate class for this child. This child needs private or adaptive lessons. She would be a distraction.

[Anonymous]

We did not have a great experience at NCAP’s AU swim school either, though this was several yrs ago during the latter part of the pandemic. We paid a gazillion dollars for 5 months of lessons and at the end, they did not even advance him to the next level/class! We moved on and fast forward several years, he’s now a happy club swimmer (RMSC). This may be a little too far for you, but my younger kid has loved goldfish, and my observation is that they are very accommodating kids with various needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am glad you had a good experience with your child, PP. That was not our experience, unfortunately.

To the previous PP, my child has participated in semiprivate lessons at safesplash and the coaches and administrative staff are always very accommodating. Day and night with what we experienced at NCAP.

We may come back to them.

Try again and disclose the ASD up front.

It’s a liability if your kid doesn’t follow pool safety instructions whilst waiting his turns. You should be thankful they’re paying attention enough to see unsafe behavior towards others or self.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, yes I agree I should have disclosed. However, my kid was not unsafe. He is able to swim and the ratio is not particularly large, 4 to 1. My issue was with the exclusionary approach the staff took even after I informed her about it. He just need more time with instructions. I would have happily stayed by the pool to keep him at the border. That seems a reasonable accomodation to me. But no discussion, no flexibility. A quite hostile approach.
My kids has been in swim lessons in other group programs and coaches always find a way to redirect him...

Seems like a listening, focus, impulsivity, processing speed issue. Not that maybe he can swim.

At-pace group lessons are not for him so stop trying over and over to slander NCAP. Save your energy for finding appropriate accommodations and programs for your kiddo.

And stop the lies of omission about his Dx and his symptoms (slow processing, impulsive, lack of focus, inattentive, etc.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, PP. I agree. Disclosing it is important. I should have reached out, but since he mever had issues in other swim classes (and he loves to swim) I guess it slipped my mind… Anywho, I was expecting that after disclosure they will offer some accomodations but their response was this: « The accommodation in this case would be having [DC] sit on the deck in between turns since he is unable to hold onto the wall safely. » So, no accomodation just pulling him out of the pool…

That is fine. Group lessons has lots of sitting around and waiting turns. Have seen kids sit w legs in instead of float off wall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s frustrating how often the burden falls on families to educate programs about what inclusion should actually look like.

Your point about the ADA is so important. “Sitting out” isn’t a modification—it’s a way of avoiding the work of making a space accessible.

I don’t know who started this misleading verbiage but the kid wasn’t asked to go sit in the bleachers and “sit out of drills”. The adhd or asd kid who cannot wait in the water holding the wall to do the drill, will sit on that pool side wall in line to wait to do the drill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swimming is fundamentally different than other activities because the risk of drowning is so high. It isn't like a soccer drill and standing by a cone.

What you suggest isn't practical or helpful such as wearing a flotation device because the point is to learn to swim. And how is the instructor who is concentrating on another student while your child is supposed to be waiting holding on to the side supposed to not watch the student they are with? You wouldn't like it if your child was getting instruction and the instructor spent time looking away.

Following directions that are big safety issues is critical, it is such an important life skill. I get you don't think it is a big deal but not holding onto the wall actually is. The first lesson the instructor must have told your child repeatedly to do so. Instead of kicking him out completely the second lesson or just refunding your money, they have him sit out between turns while he waits.

Sitting out if you won't hold onto the wall is common. I know because my son with ADHD didn't hold on either at another swim place and had to sit on the deck to wait his turn. It didn't matter that the instructor told him several times or that I told him as well. He learned a really good lesson that he absolutely needed to learn. Follow instructions around water.

By sitting out for the duration of lessons he learned it. Next round of lessons the first two lessons he hung on to the wall, 3rd lesson he didn't and went back to sitting out between turns. Round of lessons after that he hung on until the second to the last lesson. Finally he made it through a round of lessons.

A couple of months later we went to a pool party and the kids needed to follow certain rules. I was able to explain to my son- remember when you had to sit on the deck and couldn't be in the pool when you didn't follow rules, same thing goes here.

Honestly you aren't doing your son any favors not expecting him to follow rules when it is really, really important. Drowning rates for kids is high but it is way higher for kids with disabilities, it really is really tragic.

Thanks for your perspective and I agree safety is first. I may have not be clear in my first post but this is exactly what she did. She pulled him out of the pool qithin 10 and dis not allow him to come back to the pool. When I argued that he was autistic (we all agree I should have disclosed sooner), she offered (and in fact executed) a refund for the whole
Summer season. When I complained to the CEO, he did not offer other solutions only sitting him out. I forgot also to mention that I spoke with my child as well and I expect he can do better following the instructions. I don’t expect a free pass. I was just hoping to get an accomodation to get to that point without excluded him or not allowing him to go back to the pool for two thirds of the class. But I guess you’re all right in one thing, I’ll need to look for private lessons.

Yes, it’s clear you did a lot of real time arguing and complaining at the staff.

Rethink your approach. Especially when doing new stuff and new terminology.