How can sensible, educated people be religious?

[Anonymous]

Because, only really smart people understand the significance of the movie Ground Hog Day. And if you don't, then you're not one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because most people, even highly educated ones, struggle with confronting the idea of death. Religion provides comforting stories that assuage those anxieties about our own mortality and the mortality of the ones we love.

For me, I find more comfort in the idea that there is no overarching meaning or plan or design than the thought that there is some megalomaniacal supernatural being demanding my worship or else I’ll be cast into hell.

But I understand needing the comfort of the stories. Life is hard and painful and completely unfair. It is also beautiful.

OP here -- thanks. This does somewhat explain how some intelligent people can be religious, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Even if people had our knowledge 2,000 years ago, maybe some of them still would have made up comforting stories and some of them would have believed the stories, just as they do today.

OP,
Your comment above intrigues me (“… despite all evidence to the contrary.”)

Frankly, I have yet to see any evidence that proves God doesn’t exist. If it’s out there, point me to it and I’ll reevaluate. If you’re going to say “science,” then count me among the many scientifically- inclined people who don’t see the two as mutually exclusive.

THere's no evidence out there to prove that leprechauns don't exist either, but I bet you don't believe in them. I don't blame you. Leprechauns are silly -- not like God, who gives you eternal life with him in heaven.

I haven’t really put much thought into leprechauns, certainly not as much as I have God. I’m willing to entertain it for the sake of this discussion and because I like to be thorough…

Yes, and you haven't given Leprechauns much thought with good reason - there's no evidence they are real.

That's the standard you apply to Leprechauns, and all other things - except one. The one you were indoctrinated in, coincidentally.

Actually, I wasn’t brought up in any church. I didn’t go to church until my 30s.

You assume I was indoctrinated because that’s easier for your argument… that I came to my faith in some easy, thoughtless way. Instead, I studied and read. I even read books disproving religion. (Again: I’m thorough.)

DP here. And I bet you love telling people that you studied and read your way to being religious. Because you are so intelligent and thorough, you think it makes your case for god belief stronger. Not in my opinion. It just makes you more prone to delusion. And IMO, you were indoctrinated: self-indoctrinated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can people who understand basic science also believe that there is a god in heaven protecting them and that they will live there forever after they die here on earth?

Even mainstream religious practices are powerfully manipulative when it comes to indoctrination. You can be very educated and still have a brain that was conditioned from childhood to believe what religion tells you and not question it, or only question it within allowable bounds. When I deconverted I realized I'd been suffering from doublethink my whole life without being able to realize/acknowledge it. I think a lot of other religious people are the same way. It doesn't mean they're unintelligent. Their brain is literally wired to prevent them from thinking otherwise. People can and do break free, but I think it's unrealistic to *expect* that from the majority of people - especially when society is so biased against unbelievers.

+1

[Anonymous]

I think you have a cartoonish idea of what religious adults believe and why. I'll give you a clue, it's not that there's a big bearded Daddy in the sky protecting me from all harm.

I could recommend some good books that have been influential for me, but only if you're actually interested in understanding different ways people think about God and have historically (not to convince you to believe, but to answer the OP's question). I don't have any interest in arguing over whether God is real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because, only really smart people understand the significance of the movie Ground Hog Day. And if you don't, then you're not one of them.

Please tell us dumb people the significance of the movie Ground Hog Day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because most people, even highly educated ones, struggle with confronting the idea of death. Religion provides comforting stories that assuage those anxieties about our own mortality and the mortality of the ones we love.

For me, I find more comfort in the idea that there is no overarching meaning or plan or design than the thought that there is some megalomaniacal supernatural being demanding my worship or else I’ll be cast into hell.

But I understand needing the comfort of the stories. Life is hard and painful and completely unfair. It is also beautiful.

OP here -- thanks. This does somewhat explain how some intelligent people can be religious, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Even if people had our knowledge 2,000 years ago, maybe some of them still would have made up comforting stories and some of them would have believed the stories, just as they do today.

OP,
Your comment above intrigues me (“… despite all evidence to the contrary.”)

Frankly, I have yet to see any evidence that proves God doesn’t exist. If it’s out there, point me to it and I’ll reevaluate. If you’re going to say “science,” then count me among the many scientifically- inclined people who don’t see the two as mutually exclusive.

THere's no evidence out there to prove that leprechauns don't exist either, but I bet you don't believe in them. I don't blame you. Leprechauns are silly -- not like God, who gives you eternal life with him in heaven.

I haven’t really put much thought into leprechauns, certainly not as much as I have God. I’m willing to entertain it for the sake of this discussion and because I like to be thorough…

Going by your previous reasoning, prove that leprechauns don't exist. Or, Santa.

I thought you were going to actually respond to this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because most people, even highly educated ones, struggle with confronting the idea of death. Religion provides comforting stories that assuage those anxieties about our own mortality and the mortality of the ones we love.

For me, I find more comfort in the idea that there is no overarching meaning or plan or design than the thought that there is some megalomaniacal supernatural being demanding my worship or else I’ll be cast into hell.

But I understand needing the comfort of the stories. Life is hard and painful and completely unfair. It is also beautiful.

OP here -- thanks. This does somewhat explain how some intelligent people can be religious, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Even if people had our knowledge 2,000 years ago, maybe some of them still would have made up comforting stories and some of them would have believed the stories, just as they do today.

OP,
Your comment above intrigues me (“… despite all evidence to the contrary.”)

Frankly, I have yet to see any evidence that proves God doesn’t exist. If it’s out there, point me to it and I’ll reevaluate. If you’re going to say “science,” then count me among the many scientifically- inclined people who don’t see the two as mutually exclusive.

THere's no evidence out there to prove that leprechauns don't exist either, but I bet you don't believe in them. I don't blame you. Leprechauns are silly -- not like God, who gives you eternal life with him in heaven.

I haven’t really put much thought into leprechauns, certainly not as much as I have God. I’m willing to entertain it for the sake of this discussion and because I like to be thorough…

Going by your previous reasoning, prove that leprechauns don't exist. Or, Santa.

I thought you were going to actually respond to this.

Could be that pp doesn't spend as much time on this forum as you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very intelligent people think about what's outside our universe, and the possibility of some other world, quantum physics, and theories of consciousness.

Even Einstein believed in some form of a god.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-god-quantum-mechanics-and-consciousness-have-in-common/

DP - I went down a rabbit hole to read through some of links included in the article. I see now why you may hold some of the views you do. However, I view it all as trivial bullsh*t philosophizing, trying to ascribe meaning to something. It's a very anthropomorphic view of reality. The world just "is". There is no purpose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s really not worth explaining to faithless people.

Well, in Christianity at least, there's sort of an obligation to explain "it" to faithless people...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because, only really smart people understand the significance of the movie Ground Hog Day. And if you don't, then you're not one of them.

Please tell us dumb people the significance of the movie Ground Hog Day.

It means you have yet to learn that time is an illusion and reality is, everyday is ground hog day. Time exists only in our psychology to try to make sense of things that happen in the TV screen of our brain. Most people think time is somehow "real"; real, as in it exists outside of the figment of our imagination. Those of us who understand yet still have faith do so for as many reasons as does everyone else. I do so because I wish (we call that hope in my religion) there is more to reality. Here's degrasse Tyson explaining time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CKPfLV7Ud0

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very intelligent people think about what's outside our universe, and the possibility of some other world, quantum physics, and theories of consciousness.

Even Einstein believed in some form of a god.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-god-quantum-mechanics-and-consciousness-have-in-common/

DP - I went down a rabbit hole to read through some of links included in the article. I see now why you may hold some of the views you do. However, I view it all as trivial bullsh*t philosophizing, trying to ascribe meaning to something. It's a very anthropomorphic view of reality. The world just "is". There is no purpose.

DP - my view is the same. Also, I question whether Einstein believed in some form of God. I think that having fled Nazi Germany, he was careful to not upset his new home by insulting the American widespread belief in God, so he danced around the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because, only really smart people understand the significance of the movie Ground Hog Day. And if you don't, then you're not one of them.

Please tell us dumb people the significance of the movie Ground Hog Day.

It means you have yet to learn that time is an illusion and reality is, everyday is ground hog day. Time exists only in our psychology to try to make sense of things that happen in the TV screen of our brain. Most people think time is somehow "real"; real, as in it exists outside of the figment of our imagination. Those of us who understand yet still have faith do so for as many reasons as does everyone else. I do so because I wish (we call that hope in my religion) there is more to reality. Here's degrasse Tyson explaining time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CKPfLV7Ud0

You're misunderstanding this. Time is a fundamental aspect of reality, evidenced by its role in physics and our ability to measure it, even if our perception of it can be subjective. Einstein's theory of relativity suggests that time is relative, meaning it can pass differently depending on an observer's speed or gravitational field, but it doesn't negate its existence.

[Anonymous]

Einstein says: “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.”

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/dec/04/physicist-albert-einstein-god-letter-reflecting-on-religion-up-for-auction-christies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because, only really smart people understand the significance of the movie Ground Hog Day. And if you don't, then you're not one of them.

Please tell us dumb people the significance of the movie Ground Hog Day.

It means you have yet to learn that time is an illusion and reality is, everyday is ground hog day. Time exists only in our psychology to try to make sense of things that happen in the TV screen of our brain. Most people think time is somehow "real"; real, as in it exists outside of the figment of our imagination. Those of us who understand yet still have faith do so for as many reasons as does everyone else. I do so because I wish (we call that hope in my religion) there is more to reality. Here's degrasse Tyson explaining time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CKPfLV7Ud0

You're misunderstanding this. Time is a fundamental aspect of reality, evidenced by its role in physics and our ability to measure it, even if our perception of it can be subjective. Einstein's theory of relativity suggests that time is relative, meaning it can pass differently depending on an observer's speed or gravitational field, but it doesn't negate its existence.

Some believe it may be fundamental, others think it may be an emergent property (I laugh to myself with that term). Wheeler Dewitt equation doesn't use it at all. I'm not a physicist to begin to make sense of it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because, only really smart people understand the significance of the movie Ground Hog Day. And if you don't, then you're not one of them.

Please tell us dumb people the significance of the movie Ground Hog Day.

It means you have yet to learn that time is an illusion and reality is, everyday is ground hog day. Time exists only in our psychology to try to make sense of things that happen in the TV screen of our brain. Most people think time is somehow "real"; real, as in it exists outside of the figment of our imagination. Those of us who understand yet still have faith do so for as many reasons as does everyone else. I do so because I wish (we call that hope in my religion) there is more to reality. Here's degrasse Tyson explaining time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CKPfLV7Ud0

You're misunderstanding this. Time is a fundamental aspect of reality, evidenced by its role in physics and our ability to measure it, even if our perception of it can be subjective. Einstein's theory of relativity suggests that time is relative, meaning it can pass differently depending on an observer's speed or gravitational field, but it doesn't negate its existence.

Some believe it may be fundamental, others think it may be an emergent property (I laugh to myself with that term). Wheeler Dewitt equation doesn't use it at all. I'm not a physicist to begin to make sense of it all.

Define it however you wish. As written prior, it doesn't negate its existence.