Feds Only Reasonable Accomodations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Multiple serious ortho issues (several diagnosed since 2020, and leading to 3 surgeries and two total joint replacements since 2020). Cannot do a commute more than 15 minutes each way. Current office s 90 minutes.

My manager had the power to approve the RA— and did. That set things in motion, so if RTO happens, I’m exempt for now with a presumed approval. Normally, the agency EEOC coordinator would review, ask for any additional documentation (and you want surgical reports, operative reports, PT and OT reports, imaging studies, ablations, ESis, etc since 2020, and statements from pain management and orthopedics, I got them). But my agency fired the entire EEOC office, so there is literally no one left to do the final sign off. Per the union, manager’s approval stands until there is an EEOC process in place for RAs, which is required by law.

If you are able to commute, but not from the distance where you happen to live, you are probably out of luck.

An employee who had the exact same medical condition that you do who lived 15 minutes away would be medically able to be in the office. Your employer doesn’t control where you live.

Accommodations are on a case-by-case basis. It doesn’t matter that someone with the same medical condition lives closer or farther. Moreover, the same medical condition can manifest differently.

So do you believe that an employee who can’t medically commute an hour, but could medically handle a commute of 15 minutes would be allowed a reasonable accommodation to telework if and only if they lived an hour away? Rather than perhaps being told the commute is their responsibility and if they can only handle 15 minutes, they need to move within 15 minutes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people, but I do think during Covid people got used to WFH/ being able to run to Target/go for walks/pick up kids and check emails a few times, etc. Be grateful for a job. Many people have been RTO since 2021/2022!

When I was a child my single mom (dad died) had cancer. She went to work and also had doctors appointments, surgery, chemo, etc. I still remember her picking me up from after school at the very end with lit her colostomy bag and kids also being picked up would make fun of her. She didn't complain, was a great and present mom, and went into an office and worked. She ended up dying and we moved in with an aunt who was/never got not married, who went into an office everyday and some weekends.

I learned a lot as kid, could do my own laundry, homework, etc, and was never babied! I see cousins who have parents who basically do/did everything for them. One lives at home at age 29 and refuses to work, two others had their mom write many papers in HS and college for them, and many have their parents pay for their expensive life after they graduated college.

My aunt hired high school babysitters and a neighbor who was a SAHM with similar aged kids to watch us after school and in the summer since camps were too expensive. My grandparents also took us for a couple weeks in the summer.

No one is forcing you to stay at your job. If you don't like RTO then apply elsewhere. It will be hard with so many people out of work, but if you don't like what is required as an employee then leave.

I feel for the people with real things that need to be protected. Being upset you have a 2 hour commute stinks but pushing for an accomodation takes time away from someone who actually needs one.

I did not vote for this, but reading posts on here make me realize so many people are out of touch.

That's what I was thinking, too. It was only 5 years ago that this was the life almost everyone led. Sucky commutes, less time with kids, long stressful days at the office.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but a lot of people are acting like WFH is kind of the baseline. An entitlement. When it's really the last few years that have been weird.

My agency has had WFH for over 25 years. If people require accommodations and have medically documented conditions, it isn’t “weird.” Accommodations are not an entitlement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting on mine. Multiple mental heath conditions that require sleep hygiene and medications not compatible with daily 4 hours spent commuting.

Commuting is not an ADA issue. You are not entitled to accommodations to avoid the commute regardless of the condition.

Are you an attorney?

Some of these commutes are 2 hours long. Many middle aged and older women suffer from degrees of incontinence. They would have to stop at a bathroom, making their commute even longer. I would argue that the commute itself absolutely is an issue for these people and that remote work is a reasonable accommodation.

Urogynecologist surgical staffer here. Unless you live in Palm Springs and are commuting to Vegas across the desert, there will be a bathroom along the commute. It’s fine to stop along the way.

Alternatives include Depends/Thinx and / or wicking pads.

Cmon. You’re already wearing the absorbent pads and briefs in your home office, admit this. Just change when you arrive at work. Bring a disposable wipe.

My employer would never agree to sign a letter with her name and NPI stating someone with your diagnosis can’t drive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:a colleague with cancer applied for recovery after their surgery and was denied. 🤷🏻‍♀️

What???? Lord, what fresh hell is this???

My employee just had surgery and I got them approved for telework while they recover. They took sick leave the first week. The issue is that they can’t drive currently. So some agencies are still approving. This employee has plenty of sick leave but it would be a hardship to the whole team if they were out for a month. They’re the best one on the team and we’d prefer they work. It wasn’t an RA though, this was just a standard approval.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Multiple serious ortho issues (several diagnosed since 2020, and leading to 3 surgeries and two total joint replacements since 2020). Cannot do a commute more than 15 minutes each way. Current office s 90 minutes.

My manager had the power to approve the RA— and did. That set things in motion, so if RTO happens, I’m exempt for now with a presumed approval. Normally, the agency EEOC coordinator would review, ask for any additional documentation (and you want surgical reports, operative reports, PT and OT reports, imaging studies, ablations, ESis, etc since 2020, and statements from pain management and orthopedics, I got them). But my agency fired the entire EEOC office, so there is literally no one left to do the final sign off. Per the union, manager’s approval stands until there is an EEOC process in place for RAs, which is required by law.

If you are able to commute, but not from the distance where you happen to live, you are probably out of luck.

An employee who had the exact same medical condition that you do who lived 15 minutes away would be medically able to be in the office. Your employer doesn’t control where you live.

Accommodations are on a case-by-case basis. It doesn’t matter that someone with the same medical condition lives closer or farther. Moreover, the same medical condition can manifest differently.

So do you believe that an employee who can’t medically commute an hour, but could medically handle a commute of 15 minutes would be allowed a reasonable accommodation to telework if and only if they lived an hour away? Rather than perhaps being told the commute is their responsibility and if they can only handle 15 minutes, they need to move within 15 minutes?

Once again, case-by-case basis. Read up on EEOC case law. What you think might not fly might in fact be substantiated by medical documentation. There are people that have been granted accommodations because medication that they take renders them unable to drive or the commute aggravates their medical condition. In some cases, agencies have reassigned folks to a closer office or different position. Either way, there are many moving parts at issue and it can’t be assumed that an agency will or will not approve an accommodation based on your personal position if whether they should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people, but I do think during Covid people got used to WFH/ being able to run to Target/go for walks/pick up kids and check emails a few times, etc. Be grateful for a job. Many people have been RTO since 2021/2022!

When I was a child my single mom (dad died) had cancer. She went to work and also had doctors appointments, surgery, chemo, etc. I still remember her picking me up from after school at the very end with lit her colostomy bag and kids also being picked up would make fun of her. She didn't complain, was a great and present mom, and went into an office and worked. She ended up dying and we moved in with an aunt who was/never got not married, who went into an office everyday and some weekends.

I learned a lot as kid, could do my own laundry, homework, etc, and was never babied! I see cousins who have parents who basically do/did everything for them. One lives at home at age 29 and refuses to work, two others had their mom write many papers in HS and college for them, and many have their parents pay for their expensive life after they graduated college.

My aunt hired high school babysitters and a neighbor who was a SAHM with similar aged kids to watch us after school and in the summer since camps were too expensive. My grandparents also took us for a couple weeks in the summer.

No one is forcing you to stay at your job. If you don't like RTO then apply elsewhere. It will be hard with so many people out of work, but if you don't like what is required as an employee then leave.

I feel for the people with real things that need to be protected. Being upset you have a 2 hour commute stinks but pushing for an accomodation takes time away from someone who actually needs one.

I did not vote for this, but reading posts on here make me realize so many people are out of touch.

That's what I was thinking, too. It was only 5 years ago that this was the life almost everyone led. Sucky commutes, less time with kids, long stressful days at the office.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but a lot of people are acting like WFH is kind of the baseline. An entitlement. When it's really the last few years that have been weird.

My agency has had WFH for over 25 years. If people require accommodations and have medically documented conditions, it isn’t “weird.” Accommodations are not an entitlement.

Pp. My comment wasn't related to medical accommodations. Moreso the complaints on this thread that office is in bad neighborhood, commuting is stressful, mentions of high blood pressure being worsened, etc. I'm certain there are certain conditions that require WFH.

[Anonymous]

I know someone whose RA for telework got approved. Life long epileptic who can't drive. During COVID, agency moved to new location that isn't public transport accessible. (They did not say he had to move to the one subdivision that might be walkable.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Multiple serious ortho issues (several diagnosed since 2020, and leading to 3 surgeries and two total joint replacements since 2020). Cannot do a commute more than 15 minutes each way. Current office s 90 minutes.

My manager had the power to approve the RA— and did. That set things in motion, so if RTO happens, I’m exempt for now with a presumed approval. Normally, the agency EEOC coordinator would review, ask for any additional documentation (and you want surgical reports, operative reports, PT and OT reports, imaging studies, ablations, ESis, etc since 2020, and statements from pain management and orthopedics, I got them). But my agency fired the entire EEOC office, so there is literally no one left to do the final sign off. Per the union, manager’s approval stands until there is an EEOC process in place for RAs, which is required by law.

If you are able to commute, but not from the distance where you happen to live, you are probably out of luck.

An employee who had the exact same medical condition that you do who lived 15 minutes away would be medically able to be in the office. Your employer doesn’t control where you live.

Accommodations are on a case-by-case basis. It doesn’t matter that someone with the same medical condition lives closer or farther. Moreover, the same medical condition can manifest differently.

So do you believe that an employee who can’t medically commute an hour, but could medically handle a commute of 15 minutes would be allowed a reasonable accommodation to telework if and only if they lived an hour away? Rather than perhaps being told the commute is their responsibility and if they can only handle 15 minutes, they need to move within 15 minutes?

Once again, case-by-case basis. Read up on EEOC case law. What you think might not fly might in fact be substantiated by medical documentation. There are people that have been granted accommodations because medication that they take renders them unable to drive or the commute aggravates their medical condition. In some cases, agencies have reassigned folks to a closer office or different position. Either way, there are many moving parts at issue and it can’t be assumed that an agency will or will not approve an accommodation based on your personal position if whether they should.

I haven’t stated a personal position, and I’m quite familiar with EEOC, and more importantly circuit court, case law.

It is case by case and fact specific, of course. And lots will probably come down between how risk averse (or averse to granting an accommodation if there is a good faith basis not to) an agency is since it will rarely be 100% clear whether telework is a required accommodation. But many of this board seem to think that accommodations will be far easier to get than they are likely to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people, but I do think during Covid people got used to WFH/ being able to run to Target/go for walks/pick up kids and check emails a few times, etc. Be grateful for a job. Many people have been RTO since 2021/2022!

When I was a child my single mom (dad died) had cancer. She went to work and also had doctors appointments, surgery, chemo, etc. I still remember her picking me up from after school at the very end with lit her colostomy bag and kids also being picked up would make fun of her. She didn't complain, was a great and present mom, and went into an office and worked. She ended up dying and we moved in with an aunt who was/never got not married, who went into an office everyday and some weekends.

I learned a lot as kid, could do my own laundry, homework, etc, and was never babied! I see cousins who have parents who basically do/did everything for them. One lives at home at age 29 and refuses to work, two others had their mom write many papers in HS and college for them, and many have their parents pay for their expensive life after they graduated college.

My aunt hired high school babysitters and a neighbor who was a SAHM with similar aged kids to watch us after school and in the summer since camps were too expensive. My grandparents also took us for a couple weeks in the summer.

No one is forcing you to stay at your job. If you don't like RTO then apply elsewhere. It will be hard with so many people out of work, but if you don't like what is required as an employee then leave.

I feel for the people with real things that need to be protected. Being upset you have a 2 hour commute stinks but pushing for an accomodation takes time away from someone who actually needs one.

I did not vote for this, but reading posts on here make me realize so many people are out of touch.

That's what I was thinking, too. It was only 5 years ago that this was the life almost everyone led. Sucky commutes, less time with kids, long stressful days at the office.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but a lot of people are acting like WFH is kind of the baseline. An entitlement. When it's really the last few years that have been weird.

I agree with you except that your assumption is that the pre-Covid approach is the gold standard. It isn't. It reflects the way the work world operated before technology enabled us to do things differently.

If workers' lives are more manageable and the work still gets done and traffic is lighter and less carbon is emitted and children are better off and people have more time to exercise and cook dinner and enjoy the sunshine, what is the point of returning to the pre-Covid way of working?

I wonder if employers in the 1920s told their employees that they weren’t allowed to drive to work using those newfangled “automobiles”? Instead, they had to continue using horse-drawn carriages because “that’s the way we’ve always done it”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people, but I do think during Covid people got used to WFH/ being able to run to Target/go for walks/pick up kids and check emails a few times, etc. Be grateful for a job. Many people have been RTO since 2021/2022!

When I was a child my single mom (dad died) had cancer. She went to work and also had doctors appointments, surgery, chemo, etc. I still remember her picking me up from after school at the very end with lit her colostomy bag and kids also being picked up would make fun of her. She didn't complain, was a great and present mom, and went into an office and worked. She ended up dying and we moved in with an aunt who was/never got not married, who went into an office everyday and some weekends.

I learned a lot as kid, could do my own laundry, homework, etc, and was never babied! I see cousins who have parents who basically do/did everything for them. One lives at home at age 29 and refuses to work, two others had their mom write many papers in HS and college for them, and many have their parents pay for their expensive life after they graduated college.

My aunt hired high school babysitters and a neighbor who was a SAHM with similar aged kids to watch us after school and in the summer since camps were too expensive. My grandparents also took us for a couple weeks in the summer.

No one is forcing you to stay at your job. If you don't like RTO then apply elsewhere. It will be hard with so many people out of work, but if you don't like what is required as an employee then leave.

I feel for the people with real things that need to be protected. Being upset you have a 2 hour commute stinks but pushing for an accomodation takes time away from someone who actually needs one.

I did not vote for this, but reading posts on here make me realize so many people are out of touch.

Why do people need to work in the office?

[Anonymous]

Not heard of mental issue would constitute of RA -- I will look into that if it works that way. I have a rating as well. Thanks for the information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know someone whose RA for telework got approved. Life long epileptic who can't drive. During COVID, agency moved to new location that isn't public transport accessible. (They did not say he had to move to the one subdivision that might be walkable.)

I don’t think anyone has said no one will get a RA for telework. But think of how few people will have facts similar to this, not epilepsy per se, but a complete medical prohibition on driving and an office move away from a metro accessible location. Obviously this isn’t the only type of fact pattern where an RA might be possible, but you are going to need a lot more than saying commuting is going to be detrimental to my physical and mental well being, even though that’s undoubtedly true for lots of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting on mine. Multiple mental heath conditions that require sleep hygiene and medications not compatible with daily 4 hours spent commuting.

why do you live so far away? I say this as I got a pied a tier across the street from my office when I had a very long round trip commute. Actually was relaxing. Even more so than WFH. Had best of both worlds.

Presumably you weren’t doing much parenting from your pied a tier. If she parents, she can’t very well do what you did.

People, you’re embarrassing yourselves. It’s “pied a terre.”

If you can’t spell it… just use the English. A shitbox apartment isn’t impressive even in French.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting on mine. Multiple mental heath conditions that require sleep hygiene and medications not compatible with daily 4 hours spent commuting.

Commuting is not an ADA issue. You are not entitled to accommodations to avoid the commute regardless of the condition.

Are you an attorney?

Some of these commutes are 2 hours long. Many middle aged and older women suffer from degrees of incontinence. They would have to stop at a bathroom, making their commute even longer. I would argue that the commute itself absolutely is an issue for these people and that remote work is a reasonable accommodation.

Whoa!

You are trying to argue that normal middle age women peeing when they sneeze is an ADA accomodation for telework? Seriously??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people, but I do think during Covid people got used to WFH/ being able to run to Target/go for walks/pick up kids and check emails a few times, etc. Be grateful for a job. Many people have been RTO since 2021/2022!

When I was a child my single mom (dad died) had cancer. She went to work and also had doctors appointments, surgery, chemo, etc. I still remember her picking me up from after school at the very end with lit her colostomy bag and kids also being picked up would make fun of her. She didn't complain, was a great and present mom, and went into an office and worked. She ended up dying and we moved in with an aunt who was/never got not married, who went into an office everyday and some weekends.

I learned a lot as kid, could do my own laundry, homework, etc, and was never babied! I see cousins who have parents who basically do/did everything for them. One lives at home at age 29 and refuses to work, two others had their mom write many papers in HS and college for them, and many have their parents pay for their expensive life after they graduated college.

My aunt hired high school babysitters and a neighbor who was a SAHM with similar aged kids to watch us after school and in the summer since camps were too expensive. My grandparents also took us for a couple weeks in the summer.

No one is forcing you to stay at your job. If you don't like RTO then apply elsewhere. It will be hard with so many people out of work, but if you don't like what is required as an employee then leave.

I feel for the people with real things that need to be protected. Being upset you have a 2 hour commute stinks but pushing for an accomodation takes time away from someone who actually needs one.

I did not vote for this, but reading posts on here make me realize so many people are out of touch.

That's what I was thinking, too. It was only 5 years ago that this was the life almost everyone led. Sucky commutes, less time with kids, long stressful days at the office.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but a lot of people are acting like WFH is kind of the baseline. An entitlement. When it's really the last few years that have been weird.

I agree with you except that your assumption is that the pre-Covid approach is the gold standard. It isn't. It reflects the way the work world operated before technology enabled us to do things differently.

If workers' lives are more manageable and the work still gets done and traffic is lighter and less carbon is emitted and children are better off and people have more time to exercise and cook dinner and enjoy the sunshine, what is the point of returning to the pre-Covid way of working?

I work unconventional hours so my free time is during the day.

All I can say is that the coffee shops, Homegoods, Target, Costco, Whole Foods and local restaurants are now half empty during the day. One month or so ago, they were packed all day long. Especially the coffee shops and stores.

A lot of people were getting their work done during the day, but just as many were out shopping, catching up with friends and getting their hair done.