Why are "elite schools" still a thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to be pretty common knowledge that for the vast majority of applicants, getting accepted to a school like Harvard or Yale is pretty much a lottery. So why are these insanely selective schools still considered better than all of the others? Why haven't we let the idea of "prestigious" colleges go? Many students get equal or better educations at their state school.

Because they don't get an equal or better education at a state school. As one who started at one then transferred to another...the difference is vast. The middle-50s state school with good engineering was not anywhere close to the pace and depth of classes, and without professor guided research opportunities at the elite private school with amazing engineering. The peers from the better school have gone far and wide, with startups or into academia or high up in industry. The midlevel state peers have midlevel tech-type jobs that are closer to IT jobs than innovative engineering. They make 70-100k in their 40s and hit their ceiling long ago. Their bosses are almost all top engineering program grads. Professors, who are great at both, will be the first to admit they have to dumb down for the state schools, and do not have the resources to take on and pay undergraduates for research. Fast forward 25 yrs and sophomore history kid and peers at a top10 uni had to explain primary sources and tips on keeping up with reading to a junior transfer from a LAC ranked in the 20s. The lac kid was completely unprepared for the transfer. Yet had a 4.0 from the prior school. They said the workload was almost double, in the humanities no less, which dcum often mocks and does not understand is also much more rigorous at elite schools.

Cool, here’s my anecdote. I went to a state school and I work with a bunch of people that went to ivies and I keep getting promoted over them. Don’t worry, it’s not because I went to a state school, it’s that no one cares where anyone went to undergrad and undergrad education has such little impact on our work. Life is not a series of exams.

Where do you work and what is your job?

Sounds like you are just one of thousands of posters with an unnamed person and unnamed position claiming something.

The verifiable most successful people in the world are heavily concentrated in top schools.

So, I guess you lose the anecdote contest?

It’s a DC-based organization that you sad strivers would kill to have your kids get a job at.

So either name it or f**k off. If you aren’t willing to provide any specifics then you just fall into the category of making shit up like 95% of DCUM.

Does it only have two employees? Assuming it has many employees…what’s the issue?

Oooh we got under the striver’s skin.

It’s one known by its acronym. That narrows down the list to about 10 or so places, and that’s all you’re getting. But it ultimately doesn’t matter. What I described is true at almost every organization. They are filled with people from all sorts of schools, and the people that rise come from all sorts of schools, and no one cares what the name on your diploma is.

Nope we just found another lying DCUM poster.

Now, I believe I told you to f**k off. So, no more from you until you name names. Hard to do when it’s made up.

Lol imagine believing so hard in your “elite” schools (and being so clueless about the modern workplace) that you don’t know how little advantage these schools confer once you are in the workplace itself. Are you a current student, or just haven’t set foot in an office for many years?

Nope…just find it funny when people lie about their situation (in fairness it’s usually their 3rd cousin’s best friend)…then have nothing left but to double down on it when called out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to be pretty common knowledge that for the vast majority of applicants, getting accepted to a school like Harvard or Yale is pretty much a lottery. So why are these insanely selective schools still considered better than all of the others? Why haven't we let the idea of "prestigious" colleges go? Many students get equal or better educations at their state school.

Because they don't get an equal or better education at a state school. As one who started at one then transferred to another...the difference is vast. The middle-50s state school with good engineering was not anywhere close to the pace and depth of classes, and without professor guided research opportunities at the elite private school with amazing engineering. The peers from the better school have gone far and wide, with startups or into academia or high up in industry. The midlevel state peers have midlevel tech-type jobs that are closer to IT jobs than innovative engineering. They make 70-100k in their 40s and hit their ceiling long ago. Their bosses are almost all top engineering program grads. Professors, who are great at both, will be the first to admit they have to dumb down for the state schools, and do not have the resources to take on and pay undergraduates for research. Fast forward 25 yrs and sophomore history kid and peers at a top10 uni had to explain primary sources and tips on keeping up with reading to a junior transfer from a LAC ranked in the 20s. The lac kid was completely unprepared for the transfer. Yet had a 4.0 from the prior school. They said the workload was almost double, in the humanities no less, which dcum often mocks and does not understand is also much more rigorous at elite schools.

Cool, here’s my anecdote. I went to a state school and I work with a bunch of people that went to ivies and I keep getting promoted over them. Don’t worry, it’s not because I went to a state school, it’s that no one cares where anyone went to undergrad and undergrad education has such little impact on our work. Life is not a series of exams.

Where do you work and what is your job?

Sounds like you are just one of thousands of posters with an unnamed person and unnamed position claiming something.

The verifiable most successful people in the world are heavily concentrated in top schools.

So, I guess you lose the anecdote contest?

It’s a DC-based organization that you sad strivers would kill to have your kids get a job at.

So either name it or f**k off. If you aren’t willing to provide any specifics then you just fall into the category of making shit up like 95% of DCUM.

Does it only have two employees? Assuming it has many employees…what’s the issue?

Oooh we got under the striver’s skin.

It’s one known by its acronym. That narrows down the list to about 10 or so places, and that’s all you’re getting. But it ultimately doesn’t matter. What I described is true at almost every organization. They are filled with people from all sorts of schools, and the people that rise come from all sorts of schools, and no one cares what the name on your diploma is.

Nope we just found another lying DCUM poster.

Now, I believe I told you to f**k off. So, no more from you until you name names. Hard to do when it’s made up.

Lol imagine believing so hard in your “elite” schools (and being so clueless about the modern workplace) that you don’t know how little advantage these schools confer once you are in the workplace itself. Are you a current student, or just haven’t set foot in an office for many years?

Nope…just find it funny when people lie about their situation (in fairness it’s usually their 3rd cousin’s best friend)…then have nothing left but to double down on it when called out.

I gave you plenty of info, but no I’m not naming my exact employer because you seem like a weird, angry little doxxer. But what’s really funny is that you genuinely don’t seem to know how the workplace is in pretty much any organization. Strive harder, striver. It’s a limitless climb, and it will get you nowhere, but we know you know nothing else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to be pretty common knowledge that for the vast majority of applicants, getting accepted to a school like Harvard or Yale is pretty much a lottery. So why are these insanely selective schools still considered better than all of the others? Why haven't we let the idea of "prestigious" colleges go? Many students get equal or better educations at their state school.

Because they don't get an equal or better education at a state school. As one who started at one then transferred to another...the difference is vast. The middle-50s state school with good engineering was not anywhere close to the pace and depth of classes, and without professor guided research opportunities at the elite private school with amazing engineering. The peers from the better school have gone far and wide, with startups or into academia or high up in industry. The midlevel state peers have midlevel tech-type jobs that are closer to IT jobs than innovative engineering. They make 70-100k in their 40s and hit their ceiling long ago. Their bosses are almost all top engineering program grads. Professors, who are great at both, will be the first to admit they have to dumb down for the state schools, and do not have the resources to take on and pay undergraduates for research. Fast forward 25 yrs and sophomore history kid and peers at a top10 uni had to explain primary sources and tips on keeping up with reading to a junior transfer from a LAC ranked in the 20s. The lac kid was completely unprepared for the transfer. Yet had a 4.0 from the prior school. They said the workload was almost double, in the humanities no less, which dcum often mocks and does not understand is also much more rigorous at elite schools.

Cool, here’s my anecdote. I went to a state school and I work with a bunch of people that went to ivies and I keep getting promoted over them. Don’t worry, it’s not because I went to a state school, it’s that no one cares where anyone went to undergrad and undergrad education has such little impact on our work. Life is not a series of exams.

Where do you work and what is your job?

Sounds like you are just one of thousands of posters with an unnamed person and unnamed position claiming something.

The verifiable most successful people in the world are heavily concentrated in top schools.

So, I guess you lose the anecdote contest?

It’s a DC-based organization that you sad strivers would kill to have your kids get a job at.

So either name it or f**k off. If you aren’t willing to provide any specifics then you just fall into the category of making shit up like 95% of DCUM.

Does it only have two employees? Assuming it has many employees…what’s the issue?

Oooh we got under the striver’s skin.

It’s one known by its acronym. That narrows down the list to about 10 or so places, and that’s all you’re getting. But it ultimately doesn’t matter. What I described is true at almost every organization. They are filled with people from all sorts of schools, and the people that rise come from all sorts of schools, and no one cares what the name on your diploma is.

Nope we just found another lying DCUM poster.

Now, I believe I told you to f**k off. So, no more from you until you name names. Hard to do when it’s made up.

Lol imagine believing so hard in your “elite” schools (and being so clueless about the modern workplace) that you don’t know how little advantage these schools confer once you are in the workplace itself. Are you a current student, or just haven’t set foot in an office for many years?

Nope…just find it funny when people lie about their situation (in fairness it’s usually their 3rd cousin’s best friend)…then have nothing left but to double down on it when called out.

I gave you plenty of info, but no I’m not naming my exact employer because you seem like a weird, angry little doxxer. But what’s really funny is that you genuinely don’t seem to know how the workplace is in pretty much any organization. Strive harder, striver. It’s a limitless climb, and it will get you nowhere, but we know you know nothing else.

I know it. I know Tim Cook went to Auburn and is CEO of Apple (still a top 100 school).

It's just that it's not you...someone who feels the need to lie on DCUM.

How could I possibly dox you if you purport to work at some incredible, acronym company in DC with tons of employees?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to be pretty common knowledge that for the vast majority of applicants, getting accepted to a school like Harvard or Yale is pretty much a lottery. So why are these insanely selective schools still considered better than all of the others? Why haven't we let the idea of "prestigious" colleges go? Many students get equal or better educations at their state school.

Because they don't get an equal or better education at a state school. As one who started at one then transferred to another...the difference is vast. The middle-50s state school with good engineering was not anywhere close to the pace and depth of classes, and without professor guided research opportunities at the elite private school with amazing engineering. The peers from the better school have gone far and wide, with startups or into academia or high up in industry. The midlevel state peers have midlevel tech-type jobs that are closer to IT jobs than innovative engineering. They make 70-100k in their 40s and hit their ceiling long ago. Their bosses are almost all top engineering program grads. Professors, who are great at both, will be the first to admit they have to dumb down for the state schools, and do not have the resources to take on and pay undergraduates for research. Fast forward 25 yrs and sophomore history kid and peers at a top10 uni had to explain primary sources and tips on keeping up with reading to a junior transfer from a LAC ranked in the 20s. The lac kid was completely unprepared for the transfer. Yet had a 4.0 from the prior school. They said the workload was almost double, in the humanities no less, which dcum often mocks and does not understand is also much more rigorous at elite schools.

Cool, here’s my anecdote. I went to a state school and I work with a bunch of people that went to ivies and I keep getting promoted over them. Don’t worry, it’s not because I went to a state school, it’s that no one cares where anyone went to undergrad and undergrad education has such little impact on our work. Life is not a series of exams.

Where do you work and what is your job?

Sounds like you are just one of thousands of posters with an unnamed person and unnamed position claiming something.

The verifiable most successful people in the world are heavily concentrated in top schools.

So, I guess you lose the anecdote contest?

It’s a DC-based organization that you sad strivers would kill to have your kids get a job at.

So either name it or f**k off. If you aren’t willing to provide any specifics then you just fall into the category of making shit up like 95% of DCUM.

Does it only have two employees? Assuming it has many employees…what’s the issue?

Oooh we got under the striver’s skin.

It’s one known by its acronym. That narrows down the list to about 10 or so places, and that’s all you’re getting. But it ultimately doesn’t matter. What I described is true at almost every organization. They are filled with people from all sorts of schools, and the people that rise come from all sorts of schools, and no one cares what the name on your diploma is.

Nope we just found another lying DCUM poster.

Now, I believe I told you to f**k off. So, no more from you until you name names. Hard to do when it’s made up.

Lol imagine believing so hard in your “elite” schools (and being so clueless about the modern workplace) that you don’t know how little advantage these schools confer once you are in the workplace itself. Are you a current student, or just haven’t set foot in an office for many years?

Nope…just find it funny when people lie about their situation (in fairness it’s usually their 3rd cousin’s best friend)…then have nothing left but to double down on it when called out.

I gave you plenty of info, but no I’m not naming my exact employer because you seem like a weird, angry little doxxer. But what’s really funny is that you genuinely don’t seem to know how the workplace is in pretty much any organization. Strive harder, striver. It’s a limitless climb, and it will get you nowhere, but we know you know nothing else.

NP- If this is the case, why do you keep engaging this person? Ignore them and go about your day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We like to say it’s a lottery, but it’s not completely, and the difference matters. Kids who go to elite schools are pretty smart and ambitious, which typically yields great results. Of course, someone with the same qualities can go to community college and also succeed, but they do so against the odds. It’s a lot easier to succeed when everyone around you is pushing you to be your best self, when the best employers want you to work for them, and the best graduate programs are happy to have you. Sure, anyone can own 10 pizza joints, but many don’t want that type of success. It is what it is.

Yes, it's not a lottery. The students who get in on merit are generally amazing. Nevertheless, there just as many who are also amazing that get passed over. The biggest problem with these schools is that many of the seats are occupied by star athletes in obscure sports or legacies who aren't so amazing but have a library named after them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to be pretty common knowledge that for the vast majority of applicants, getting accepted to a school like Harvard or Yale is pretty much a lottery. So why are these insanely selective schools still considered better than all of the others? Why haven't we let the idea of "prestigious" colleges go? Many students get equal or better educations at their state school.

Because they don't get an equal or better education at a state school. As one who started at one then transferred to another...the difference is vast. The middle-50s state school with good engineering was not anywhere close to the pace and depth of classes, and without professor guided research opportunities at the elite private school with amazing engineering. The peers from the better school have gone far and wide, with startups or into academia or high up in industry. The midlevel state peers have midlevel tech-type jobs that are closer to IT jobs than innovative engineering. They make 70-100k in their 40s and hit their ceiling long ago. Their bosses are almost all top engineering program grads. Professors, who are great at both, will be the first to admit they have to dumb down for the state schools, and do not have the resources to take on and pay undergraduates for research. Fast forward 25 yrs and sophomore history kid and peers at a top10 uni had to explain primary sources and tips on keeping up with reading to a junior transfer from a LAC ranked in the 20s. The lac kid was completely unprepared for the transfer. Yet had a 4.0 from the prior school. They said the workload was almost double, in the humanities no less, which dcum often mocks and does not understand is also much more rigorous at elite schools.

Cool, here’s my anecdote. I went to a state school and I work with a bunch of people that went to ivies and I keep getting promoted over them. Don’t worry, it’s not because I went to a state school, it’s that no one cares where anyone went to undergrad and undergrad education has such little impact on our work. Life is not a series of exams.

Where do you work and what is your job?

Sounds like you are just one of thousands of posters with an unnamed person and unnamed position claiming something.

The verifiable most successful people in the world are heavily concentrated in top schools.

So, I guess you lose the anecdote contest?

It’s a DC-based organization that you sad strivers would kill to have your kids get a job at.

So either name it or f**k off. If you aren’t willing to provide any specifics then you just fall into the category of making shit up like 95% of DCUM.

Does it only have two employees? Assuming it has many employees…what’s the issue?

Oooh we got under the striver’s skin.

It’s one known by its acronym. That narrows down the list to about 10 or so places, and that’s all you’re getting. But it ultimately doesn’t matter. What I described is true at almost every organization. They are filled with people from all sorts of schools, and the people that rise come from all sorts of schools, and no one cares what the name on your diploma is.

Nope we just found another lying DCUM poster.

Now, I believe I told you to f**k off. So, no more from you until you name names. Hard to do when it’s made up.

Lol imagine believing so hard in your “elite” schools (and being so clueless about the modern workplace) that you don’t know how little advantage these schools confer once you are in the workplace itself. Are you a current student, or just haven’t set foot in an office for many years?

Nope…just find it funny when people lie about their situation (in fairness it’s usually their 3rd cousin’s best friend)…then have nothing left but to double down on it when called out.

I gave you plenty of info, but no I’m not naming my exact employer because you seem like a weird, angry little doxxer. But what’s really funny is that you genuinely don’t seem to know how the workplace is in pretty much any organization. Strive harder, striver. It’s a limitless climb, and it will get you nowhere, but we know you know nothing else.

NP- If this is the case, why do you keep engaging this person? Ignore them and go about your day.

Because sometimes I forget how genuinely crazy some of the people are on here. Good advice though. Peace.✌🏼

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Elite schools exist because humans are status-obsessed apes. Elite schools are Veblen goods. Everything else is correlation or rationalization.

They are Veblen goods, indeed, however with a very specific caveat: the least wealthy can go for very low cost or even free, and these schools have the largest cohort of needy customers, recently OVER 50% have financial need and get a cost reduction. That is counterintuitive to the classic Veblen curve, where ability to pay the high price for the elite good applies to every "customer". Instead, elite schools have a large and significant "gate" of being an academic superstar (allowing that the "bar" for superstar is relative if one is FGLI or URM, yet relative to the general population these kids are still almost always above the 95th%ile nationally). That extra "badge" of getting in due to being academically superior plays into the cachet of the elite good, because it applies to almost all of the students there, where paying full price applies to less than half of the students there. Furthermore, part of the draw of applying to these schools has increased as the competition to get in has gone up and up: about 3/4 who are there are 98--99th%ile kids academically, pre-TO, whereas a mere 25 yrs ago only 1/4 were (more students went regional/state, many 99%ile fglis never applied, the population has grown so there are just more now). It is factually harder to get in now, by a lot. And that increases the demand. Add to all of it that there are certain segments of careers that DO have a significant disproportion of elite-school undergraduate alums; whether because they are sought out or it is correlation or both, it adds to the lure. The result is is a very unique and powerful "brand" that these elite schools provide their "customers".
On a personal note, I realize buy-in-to-the-hype more than many due to the fact of being a first gen in the early 90s before any of us were called that (and before the bar was lowered for us), and my med school roommate was a low income non-minority from a different ivy: we saw what these schools did for us. We saw that our (top3) med school was filled with a majority of elite undergrads (almost half ivy/plus/WAS) many with no doctors in our family, who knew we were there in part because our undergrad institutions and education were known entities, and professors had pushed us and helped advise us on exactly how to get in (all not just fglis).
Fast forward and our first is at an elite t10 and though he is from our now very wealthy family he is surrounded by kids on need based aid and is in a place with much more SES diversity than his private school. The perks of just being there are light years above and beyond what the high school pal at the t50s state school is getting. Thus I will continue to advocate for elites because I have seen first hand the educational and experiential value they can add.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We like to say it’s a lottery, but it’s not completely, and the difference matters. Kids who go to elite schools are pretty smart and ambitious, which typically yields great results. Of course, someone with the same qualities can go to community college and also succeed, but they do so against the odds. It’s a lot easier to succeed when everyone around you is pushing you to be your best self, when the best employers want you to work for them, and the best graduate programs are happy to have you. Sure, anyone can own 10 pizza joints, but many don’t want that type of success. It is what it is.

Yes, it's not a lottery. The students who get in on merit are generally amazing. Nevertheless, there just as many who are also amazing that get passed over. The biggest problem with these schools is that many of the seats are occupied by star athletes in obscure sports or legacies who aren't so amazing but have a library named after them.

Now that is true. However it is great for the unhooked who are there--someone has to be at the bottom of the curves for econ, calc, physics! /s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elite schools exist because humans are status-obsessed apes. Elite schools are Veblen goods. Everything else is correlation or rationalization.

They are Veblen goods, indeed, however with a very specific caveat: the least wealthy can go for very low cost or even free, and these schools have the largest cohort of needy customers, recently OVER 50% have financial need and get a cost reduction. That is counterintuitive to the classic Veblen curve, where ability to pay the high price for the elite good applies to every "customer". Instead, elite schools have a large and significant "gate" of being an academic superstar (allowing that the "bar" for superstar is relative if one is FGLI or URM, yet relative to the general population these kids are still almost always above the 95th%ile nationally). That extra "badge" of getting in due to being academically superior plays into the cachet of the elite good, because it applies to almost all of the students there, where paying full price applies to less than half of the students there. Furthermore, part of the draw of applying to these schools has increased as the competition to get in has gone up and up: about 3/4 who are there are 98--99th%ile kids academically, pre-TO, whereas a mere 25 yrs ago only 1/4 were (more students went regional/state, many 99%ile fglis never applied, the population has grown so there are just more now). It is factually harder to get in now, by a lot. And that increases the demand. Add to all of it that there are certain segments of careers that DO have a significant disproportion of elite-school undergraduate alums; whether because they are sought out or it is correlation or both, it adds to the lure. The result is is a very unique and powerful "brand" that these elite schools provide their "customers".
On a personal note, I realize buy-in-to-the-hype more than many due to the fact of being a first gen in the early 90s before any of us were called that (and before the bar was lowered for us), and my med school roommate was a low income non-minority from a different ivy: we saw what these schools did for us. We saw that our (top3) med school was filled with a majority of elite undergrads (almost half ivy/plus/WAS) many with no doctors in our family, who knew we were there in part because our undergrad institutions and education were known entities, and professors had pushed us and helped advise us on exactly how to get in (all not just fglis).
Fast forward and our first is at an elite t10 and though he is from our now very wealthy family he is surrounded by kids on need based aid and is in a place with much more SES diversity than his private school. The perks of just being there are light years above and beyond what the high school pal at the t50s state school is getting. Thus I will continue to advocate for elites because I have seen first hand the educational and experiential value they can add.

College is not a Veblen good is it. Would Berkeley be ranked above USC if it were?
Not only has Harvard gotten more competitive but so have colleges much further down the list.
Back in the 1990s, you would not have said that Northeastern was a selective school.
NYU used to stand for "Now You're Unemployed"