I think my buyers agent hustled me and did not act in my best interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, it's nearly impossible to decipher all that paperwork and fees and taxes and everything else you're forced to sign at closing. It's very common for a realtor to push you toward a certain title insurance company, home inspector, etc. and even try to lead you to a specific lender and homeowners insurance company. They may get commissions (kickbacks) from those companies for leading customers to them. It's all a racket but remember that the homebuyer is the only real source of money in the transaction so they are the ones who get jerked around the most.

No, they don't. That's a baldfaced lie.

They will steer clients to people they have experience with to ensure the deal closes without any hiccups.

DP here. Realtors DO get kickbacks! Quit trying to cover for your corrupt practices.

No they don't, you stupid dumbass. And, I'm not an agent.

Jesus, you stupid people with your rabid imaginations.

+ 1. I was an agent for 10 years on a top team. The only kickback I got was lunch at Matchbox. We had fancy dinners from lenders and "classes" from title companies. No home inspector is giving a kickback.

So, you admit to receiving "kickbacks", just not from home inspectors. And yes, what you describe are kickbacks - favors granted with the expectation of a return, unless you believe there is such thing as a free lunch, free "fancy" dinners, free education... Nothing is free but nobody needs to be reminded of this.

And, bizarrely, you "+1" the statement that people who say agents get kickbacks are "stupid people". Really? Your response amounts to calling yourself stupid.

DP but you seem a bit unhinged when it comes to this.

[Anonymous]

Please, all of you people bashing agents here - I BEG YOU! REPRESENT YOURSELVES! Both on the sell and buy side! I cannot WAIT to read about all of your successes! 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, it's nearly impossible to decipher all that paperwork and fees and taxes and everything else you're forced to sign at closing. It's very common for a realtor to push you toward a certain title insurance company, home inspector, etc. and even try to lead you to a specific lender and homeowners insurance company. They may get commissions (kickbacks) from those companies for leading customers to them. It's all a racket but remember that the homebuyer is the only real source of money in the transaction so they are the ones who get jerked around the most.

No, they don't. That's a baldfaced lie.

They will steer clients to people they have experience with to ensure the deal closes without any hiccups.

DP here. Realtors DO get kickbacks! Quit trying to cover for your corrupt practices.

No they don't, you stupid dumbass. And, I'm not an agent.

Jesus, you stupid people with your rabid imaginations.

+ 1. I was an agent for 10 years on a top team. The only kickback I got was lunch at Matchbox. We had fancy dinners from lenders and "classes" from title companies. No home inspector is giving a kickback.

So, you admit to receiving "kickbacks", just not from home inspectors. And yes, what you describe are kickbacks - favors granted with the expectation of a return, unless you believe there is such thing as a free lunch, free "fancy" dinners, free education... Nothing is free but nobody needs to be reminded of this.

And, bizarrely, you "+1" the statement that people who say agents get kickbacks are "stupid people". Really? Your response amounts to calling yourself stupid.

DP. You sound like a total douchebag and a bit unhinged. Take a xanax.

[Anonymous]

Would all the realtors please stop trying to gaslight us?

Of course realtors receive kickbacks. This is well known. One realtor even admitted it to me because she thought if she disclosed it then it was legal. And of course it's in the form of cash or in kind gifts, not a line item entitled "bribe" that they pay taxes on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would all the realtors please stop trying to gaslight us?

Of course realtors receive kickbacks. This is well known. One realtor even admitted it to me because she thought if she disclosed it then it was legal. And of course it's in the form of cash or in kind gifts, not a line item entitled "bribe" that they pay taxes on.

Good Lord. Your imagination is really something else.

[Anonymous]

I'm new to the thread and would like to add my perspective.

Welcome.

Having spent two decades in various roles within a lending corporation, I can affirm that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

We are not off to a good start.

Lenders recommend agents with whom we have strong, knowledgeable, effortless relationships with, and they reciprocate. This is to ensure that your deal will close without any hiccups or surprises.

They also engage in bribery:

“[Consumer Financial Protection Bureau] has taken a significant number of public enforcement actions under RESPA. The payment of improper kickbacks and referral fees has been the basis of almost all of these actions. Resolving these matters has entailed injunctive relief including bans on entering MSAs or working in the mortgage industry for periods of up to five years. RESPA violations have cost industry participants over $75 million in penalties so far.”

- CPFB Amended Complaint Case 8:15-cv-01973-FMO-AFM

However, there is definitely not a systematic kickback arrangement within the industry, lol.

I cannot speak to a “systematic kickback arrangement” I have not asserted; my position was kickback arrangements in the real estate industry deserve a level of scrutiny not comparable to industries like medical.

Since you seem to know much more than we do, please do enlighten us...

- What code should we instruct accounting to use when issuing these "bribes"?

The law.

You follow the law (RESPA 12 U.S.C. 2601)

- What should be recorded in the system ledger for this kickback that won't trigger red flags?

-How do we determine the amount of kickback?

Is it factored in to our loan-to-value ratio calculations?

You are asking the wrong person how to commit mortgage fraud.

Remember, whatever you suggest would have to evade detection by our stringent internal processes, because such unlawful activities would undoubtedly raise red flags within our tightly controlled operations, and no doubt attract unwanted scrutiny from regulatory bodies like the IRS and SEC.
I just don't think you have any concept of how heavily scrutinized our industry is
We must adhere to underwriting guidelines -- that is paramount above all else, as mortgage lending undergoes extensive oversight to ensure compliance within the regulatory framework. This safeguards transparency and security for all parties involved.

This is based on fallacy.

There are many highly regulated and tightly controlled and stringently policed areas where crime occurs. Because you can’t explain how human traffickers evade detection, it does not follow that human trafficking does not exist or defaults to de minimis significance.

This is the year 2024, it's not like we're still living in the heyday of the 90's, when agents and lenders would share a bag of coke on top of a mirrored table in a strip club, lol.”
Maybe unethical relationships of this sort were prevalent before the crash of 2008, but they are definitely not reflective of widespread practices within lending institutions today. That's a fact.

Do smaller, sleazier lenders or agents still utilize these kinds of relationships?
Maybe? I have no idea.

The past-was-the-past appeal is meaningless, especially the financial context: “The year 2007. This is not the Zombie Thrift 1980’s era with the Saving and Loan scandal. You implying the financial industry is committing widespread fraud is absurd/insane lol.”

If you're implying that individual lenders/agents are participating in this kind of unlawful kickback relationship behind their employers back... you're insane.

"The payment of improper kickbacks and referral fees has been the basis of almost all of these actions. Resolving these matters has entailed injunctive relief including bans on entering MSAs or working in the mortgage industry for periods of up to five years. RESPA violations have cost industry participants over $75 million in penalties so far."

8:15-cv-01973-FMO-AFM

This industry is small.
Everyone knows everyone else.
Thus, your reputation preceeds you everytime you go for a new job within the industry.
I certainly don't know anyone who would risk their career, their reputation & future within the industry, just to engage in this kind of thing, lol.
I can't even begin to imagine how someone who works for a reputable corporation would try to start that kind of conversation with someone that they want to engage in this relationship with, because if it were me, I would be terrified of the other person turning me in for even suggesting it.

This is remarkable:

That's how strictly regulated we are.

You cannot be serious.

Nothing you just described as “strict regulation” is even meaningful regulation. Everything you described is self-regulation (“career risk”). That you think "reputation" is “strict regulation” - in the context of the financial industry - cannot be taken seriously.


The language of your appeals to internal self-regulating reads like damage control statements from financial institution spokespeople responding to fraud:

2015 fined 35M for kickback schemes: "Wells Fargo holds its team members to the highest ethical standards and does not tolerate improper activities or failure to comply with rules, regulations or company policies. We have fully cooperated with the CFPB in this matter and have taken strong corrective action, including terminating team members who were involved and enhancing our procedures to provide greater oversight and monitoring of both the process and our team members."

“It’s not 2015 anymore lol. No lender would risk their career…lol”

December 20, 2022: Wells Fargo slammed with $3.7B penalty, in record CFPB settlement
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/12/20/wells-fargo-cfpb-settlement-00074740

“It’s not 2022 anymore lol. No lender would risk their career…lol”

If this were occurring today, as you continue to imply, word of it would undoubtedly spread like wildfire

Correction: “as you continue to falsely imply”. I observed that kickback arrangements in the real estate industry deserve a level of scrutiny higher than other industries like medical.

No lender would risk scrutiny from the SEC in order to give a kickback to an agent for a referral, lol.

"The payment of improper kickbacks and referral fees has been the basis of almost all of these actions. Resolving these matters has entailed injunctive relief including bans on entering MSAs or working in the mortgage industry for periods of up to five years. RESPA violations have cost industry participants over $75 million in penalties so far."

8:15-cv-01973-FMO-AFM

So again, please try explaining to us how entire industries of lenders and agents are getting away with this without anyone else knowing? To imply this is occurring on a grand scale is absolutely absurd.

I've not provided an estimate on "scale".

You really need to stop believing everything you see in movies and on tv

You really need to stop drawing conclusions from false implications.

because you just sound silly.

It sounds silly because you made some false implications and recklessly minimize the significance and existence of fraud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm new to the thread and would like to add my perspective.

Welcome.

Having spent two decades in various roles within a lending corporation, I can affirm that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

We are not off to a good start.

Lenders recommend agents with whom we have strong, knowledgeable, effortless relationships with, and they reciprocate. This is to ensure that your deal will close without any hiccups or surprises.

They also engage in bribery:

“[Consumer Financial Protection Bureau] has taken a significant number of public enforcement actions under RESPA. The payment of improper kickbacks and referral fees has been the basis of almost all of these actions. Resolving these matters has entailed injunctive relief including bans on entering MSAs or working in the mortgage industry for periods of up to five years. RESPA violations have cost industry participants over $75 million in penalties so far.”

- CPFB Amended Complaint Case 8:15-cv-01973-FMO-AFM

However, there is definitely not a systematic kickback arrangement within the industry, lol.

I cannot speak to a “systematic kickback arrangement” I have not asserted; my position was kickback arrangements in the real estate industry deserve a level of scrutiny not comparable to industries like medical.

Since you seem to know much more than we do, please do enlighten us...

- What code should we instruct accounting to use when issuing these "bribes"?

The law.

You follow the law (RESPA 12 U.S.C. 2601)

- What should be recorded in the system ledger for this kickback that won't trigger red flags?

-How do we determine the amount of kickback?

Is it factored in to our loan-to-value ratio calculations?

You are asking the wrong person how to commit mortgage fraud.

Remember, whatever you suggest would have to evade detection by our stringent internal processes, because such unlawful activities would undoubtedly raise red flags within our tightly controlled operations, and no doubt attract unwanted scrutiny from regulatory bodies like the IRS and SEC.
I just don't think you have any concept of how heavily scrutinized our industry is
We must adhere to underwriting guidelines -- that is paramount above all else, as mortgage lending undergoes extensive oversight to ensure compliance within the regulatory framework. This safeguards transparency and security for all parties involved.

This is based on fallacy.

There are many highly regulated and tightly controlled and stringently policed areas where crime occurs. Because you can’t explain how human traffickers evade detection, it does not follow that human trafficking does not exist or defaults to de minimis significance.

This is the year 2024, it's not like we're still living in the heyday of the 90's, when agents and lenders would share a bag of coke on top of a mirrored table in a strip club, lol.”
Maybe unethical relationships of this sort were prevalent before the crash of 2008, but they are definitely not reflective of widespread practices within lending institutions today. That's a fact.

Do smaller, sleazier lenders or agents still utilize these kinds of relationships?
Maybe? I have no idea.

The past-was-the-past appeal is meaningless, especially the financial context: “The year 2007. This is not the Zombie Thrift 1980’s era with the Saving and Loan scandal. You implying the financial industry is committing widespread fraud is absurd/insane lol.”

If you're implying that individual lenders/agents are participating in this kind of unlawful kickback relationship behind their employers back... you're insane.

"The payment of improper kickbacks and referral fees has been the basis of almost all of these actions. Resolving these matters has entailed injunctive relief including bans on entering MSAs or working in the mortgage industry for periods of up to five years. RESPA violations have cost industry participants over $75 million in penalties so far."

8:15-cv-01973-FMO-AFM

This industry is small.
Everyone knows everyone else.
Thus, your reputation preceeds you everytime you go for a new job within the industry.
I certainly don't know anyone who would risk their career, their reputation & future within the industry, just to engage in this kind of thing, lol.
I can't even begin to imagine how someone who works for a reputable corporation would try to start that kind of conversation with someone that they want to engage in this relationship with, because if it were me, I would be terrified of the other person turning me in for even suggesting it.

This is remarkable:

That's how strictly regulated we are.

You cannot be serious.

Nothing you just described as “strict regulation” is even meaningful regulation. Everything you described is self-regulation (“career risk”). That you think "reputation" is “strict regulation” - in the context of the financial industry - cannot be taken seriously.


The language of your appeals to internal self-regulating reads like damage control statements from financial institution spokespeople responding to fraud:

2015 fined 35M for kickback schemes: "Wells Fargo holds its team members to the highest ethical standards and does not tolerate improper activities or failure to comply with rules, regulations or company policies. We have fully cooperated with the CFPB in this matter and have taken strong corrective action, including terminating team members who were involved and enhancing our procedures to provide greater oversight and monitoring of both the process and our team members."

“It’s not 2015 anymore lol. No lender would risk their career…lol”

December 20, 2022: Wells Fargo slammed with $3.7B penalty, in record CFPB settlement
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/12/20/wells-fargo-cfpb-settlement-00074740

“It’s not 2022 anymore lol. No lender would risk their career…lol”

If this were occurring today, as you continue to imply, word of it would undoubtedly spread like wildfire

Correction: “as you continue to falsely imply”. I observed that kickback arrangements in the real estate industry deserve a level of scrutiny higher than other industries like medical.

No lender would risk scrutiny from the SEC in order to give a kickback to an agent for a referral, lol.

"The payment of improper kickbacks and referral fees has been the basis of almost all of these actions. Resolving these matters has entailed injunctive relief including bans on entering MSAs or working in the mortgage industry for periods of up to five years. RESPA violations have cost industry participants over $75 million in penalties so far."

8:15-cv-01973-FMO-AFM

So again, please try explaining to us how entire industries of lenders and agents are getting away with this without anyone else knowing? To imply this is occurring on a grand scale is absolutely absurd.

I've not provided an estimate on "scale".

You really need to stop believing everything you see in movies and on tv

You really need to stop drawing conclusions from false implications.

because you just sound silly.

It sounds silly because you made some false implications and recklessly minimize the significance and existence of fraud.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I'm so sick of realtors on this board trying to pretend that there's no price fixing or kickbacks despite judges finding there are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for taking the time to respond. I'm so sick of realtors on this board trying to pretend that there's no price fixing or kickbacks despite judges finding there are.

FWIWI don't believe op has a fraud claim,unless we missed something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, it's nearly impossible to decipher all that paperwork and fees and taxes and everything else you're forced to sign at closing. It's very common for a realtor to push you toward a certain title insurance company, home inspector, etc. and even try to lead you to a specific lender and homeowners insurance company. They may get commissions (kickbacks) from those companies for leading customers to them. It's all a racket but remember that the homebuyer is the only real source of money in the transaction so they are the ones who get jerked around the most.

No, they don't. That's a baldfaced lie.

They will steer clients to people they have experience with to ensure the deal closes without any hiccups.

DP here. Realtors DO get kickbacks! Quit trying to cover for your corrupt practices.

No they don't. If they use a title company that is affiliated with their brokerage, the brokerage benefits financially but the agent does not.

Ofcourse they do. All the plumbers, handyman's, painters, etc give kickbacks. Very common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm guessing that the agent told the person to submit an above-ask offer and to waive contingencies. Well, guess who that benefits the most? The agent! Remember that for most agents, the key is to get a transaction to close ASAP because that's the only way they get paid. Avoid using an agent, but if you do, just remember that their goal might be to get you to buy a house as quickly as possible.

Or just generally brushed off all their questions and concerns about the house as No Big Deal. Let’s hurry up and close!

Then they move in and yeah, it’s a big costly repair deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, it's nearly impossible to decipher all that paperwork and fees and taxes and everything else you're forced to sign at closing. It's very common for a realtor to push you toward a certain title insurance company, home inspector, etc. and even try to lead you to a specific lender and homeowners insurance company. They may get commissions (kickbacks) from those companies for leading customers to them. It's all a racket but remember that the homebuyer is the only real source of money in the transaction so they are the ones who get jerked around the most.

No, they don't. That's a baldfaced lie.

They will steer clients to people they have experience with to ensure the deal closes without any hiccups.

DP here. Realtors DO get kickbacks! Quit trying to cover for your corrupt practices.

No they don't. If they use a title company that is affiliated with their brokerage, the brokerage benefits financially but the agent does not.

Ofcourse they do. All the plumbers, handyman's, painters, etc give kickbacks. Very common.

Agree. We got a discounted whole house paint job to sell, then the painter got a % of the realtor commission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, it's nearly impossible to decipher all that paperwork and fees and taxes and everything else you're forced to sign at closing. It's very common for a realtor to push you toward a certain title insurance company, home inspector, etc. and even try to lead you to a specific lender and homeowners insurance company. They may get commissions (kickbacks) from those companies for leading customers to them. It's all a racket but remember that the homebuyer is the only real source of money in the transaction so they are the ones who get jerked around the most.

No, they don't. That's a baldfaced lie.

They will steer clients to people they have experience with to ensure the deal closes without any hiccups.

DP here. Realtors DO get kickbacks! Quit trying to cover for your corrupt practices.

No they don't. If they use a title company that is affiliated with their brokerage, the brokerage benefits financially but the agent does not.

Ofcourse they do. All the plumbers, handyman's, painters, etc give kickbacks. Very common.

As a matter of proportion, trade-to-realtor kickbacking is not on the same level as the insurance and financial industry side kickbacking (as I addressed above 09:18). Plumbers weren’t a significant factor in the last global financial crisis and resulting great recession. That’s not to say guild-kickbacking doesn’t exist or isn’t a problem worth of addressing.

-Unhinged Douchebag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please, all of you people bashing agents here - I BEG YOU! REPRESENT YOURSELVES! Both on the sell and buy side! I cannot WAIT to read about all of your successes! 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

I’ve represented myself buying and selling, and am so glad I did. Saved commissions and negotiated better than an agent would have. But you’re right in your view that some people will try to go it alone and screw things up — but that’s not much different than all the horror stories we read about agents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please, all of you people bashing agents here - I BEG YOU! REPRESENT YOURSELVES! Both on the sell and buy side! I cannot WAIT to read about all of your successes! 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

I’ve represented myself buying and selling, and am so glad I did. Saved commissions and negotiated better than an agent would have. But you’re right in your view that some people will try to go it alone and screw things up — but that’s not much different than all the horror stories we read about agents.

Same here. DH and I have bought and sold multiple times and realtors messed up stuff every time, including tanking a deal. The last time we bought, we didn't use a realtor. We asked the seller's agent to show us the property then ignored his pestering, gave him very little details about ourselves, and made the offer we wanted along with proof of finances. It was accepted, then we just dealt directly with the title company. It was the easiest transaction we've had.

I'll never use a buyer's agent again.

[Anonymous]

My favorite is when a house has been in the market with no activity, you make an offer and suddenly there are multiple offers with interest. Yeah right.