There is no housing crisis in MoCo or most of the DMV for that matter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Context for this thread: https://homebay.com/inflation-housing-market/
"To understand just how expensive homes have become, let’s run through some comparisons on what our childhood homes would cost today.

Spending $100,000 on a home in January 1990 would equate to spending $377,724 on a home today. For everyday living costs, $100,000 spent on goods and services in 1990 would require $231,081 to get the same amount of goods today.

Spending $100,000 on a home in January 2020 would equate to spending $142,249 on a home today, while spending $100,000 on goods and services just three years ago would require $113,739 today."

This is useless without including wage info to compare.

[Anonymous]

Feel free to leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its all a tube of toothpaste. You want low wage workers so you can get a burger for under $10? Well you either need to build enough cheap or subsidized housing for them, or deal with 270/495/most other roads being jammed up with drive-till-you-qualifiers coming to make your sandwich.

See, this is where the free market takes over. If burger flippers, teachers, and barbers can't afford to live in the area then the supplies of those who do that labor will go down, leading to a premium in wages that will allow them to eventually afford housing. No one is entitled to live wherever they want. We do not need to upend our way of life because people don't like their personal choices. There is plenty of cheap housing stock in Iowa, Kansas, Pennsylvania, Western MD, etc. It's not my responsibility to provide you housing because you don't want to live there.

You aren't entitled to live wherever you want either.

You are welcome to buy your SFH in Iowa away. You don't own anything outside of your plot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Signed, a boomer that got their housing for 3 blueberries back in 1940 from a Sears catalog. Go talk to young people, even high earners, on how difficult it is to buy a house nowadays.

Ok sure it's tough to buy a sfh, but that's not what they're trying to change all of the codes to build. There will be even fewer sfh under these policies. Is there really a shortage of apartments?

There does seem to be a mismatch. People want smaller single family starter homes. They are knocking down the old small SFH homes to build big houses that take up the whole lot, and then also building mixed use luxury apartments. Lots being built, just not what young families want. I guess in theory the boomers can sell their old houses to move to those apartments — some do. I’ve seen lots of decent older homes in my neighborhood be knocked down for developers — the incentives are all wrong for people to be able to buy the older housing stock. Years ago there was an article on maybe WaPo about neighbors that bought a house on their street and rehabbed it so the developers would not overbuild it, and explaining the economics of why that doesn’t really work.

This. Massive ugly houses or tiny apartments. What people actually want are the existing right sized homes.

So entitlement. They want homes even though apartments are available.

Thanks for confirming entitlement mentality.

Why are you entitled to your house?

[Anonymous]

It's simple. If you choose to throw away the social contract that provides everyone a chance for economic security and quality of life, then the people you don't like will throw it away too, and they can compete with you in the really free market: taking by force. Is that what you want?

[Anonymous]

Give your house back to the Native Americans whose way of life was upended for you, or shut up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's simple. If you choose to throw away the social contract that provides everyone a chance for economic security and quality of life, then the people you don't like will throw it away too, and they can compete with you in the really free market: taking by force. Is that what you want?

+ 1000

All these overeducated fools that seem to have never opened a history book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Context for this thread: https://homebay.com/inflation-housing-market/
"To understand just how expensive homes have become, let’s run through some comparisons on what our childhood homes would cost today.

Spending $100,000 on a home in January 1990 would equate to spending $377,724 on a home today. For everyday living costs, $100,000 spent on goods and services in 1990 would require $231,081 to get the same amount of goods today.

Spending $100,000 on a home in January 2020 would equate to spending $142,249 on a home today, while spending $100,000 on goods and services just three years ago would require $113,739 today."

This is useless without including wage info to compare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is definitely no housing crisis. We have migrants and immigrants finding housing no problem. I mean look how cheap housing is compared to incomes compared to most of the world.

They are living 10+ to a home which is a argument for a different thread.

It's really an argument for this same thread. When people are living 10+ to a house, because they can't afford less overcrowded housing, that's a housing crisis.

(And, of course, they are defiling the sanctity of the SFH neighborhood while they do so - which is what the OP is so upset about, according to the OP.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's simple. If you choose to throw away the social contract that provides everyone a chance for economic security and quality of life, then the people you don't like will throw it away too, and they can compete with you in the really free market: taking by force. Is that what you want?

+ 1000

All these overeducated fools that seem to have never opened a history book.

They figure once they rig the game in their favor, it has to stay that way forever. Their SFH zoned houses were probably zoned agriculture before the zoning was changed to R1. But for some reason it needs to stay R1 in perpetuity.

Now the region actually could benefit from additional close in farming...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its all a tube of toothpaste. You want low wage workers so you can get a burger for under $10? Well you either need to build enough cheap or subsidized housing for them, or deal with 270/495/most other roads being jammed up with drive-till-you-qualifiers coming to make your sandwich.

See, this is where the free market takes over. If burger flippers, teachers, and barbers can't afford to live in the area then the supplies of those who do that labor will go down, leading to a premium in wages that will allow them to eventually afford housing. No one is entitled to live wherever they want. We do not need to upend our way of life because people don't like their personal choices. There is plenty of cheap housing stock in Iowa, Kansas, Pennsylvania, Western MD, etc. It's not my responsibility to provide you housing because you don't want to live there.

Why don't people move to places where housing is cheap because there's very little demand for housing because there's no economic opportunity?!?!?!

Nonsense.

You all complain burger flippers, restaurant staff, teachers and firefighters can't afford to live in this area. Guess what? All of those jobs exist in Kansas, Ohio, Iowa, or Arkansas! Hell, the Dakotas have some of the top performing schools in the entire country if you care about your kids' education so much. You are not entitled to live wherever you want.

Here's a perfectly fine house for $375K in York, PA:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2415-Wildon-Dr-York-PA-17403/60492446_zpid/

York is a small city with jobs for all of the people complaining about costs. They need teachers and restaurant staff.

Here are good enough homes for desperate people in Columbus, Ohio, which is a vibrant enough town for people if all they care about is owning a home:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1465-Lockbourne-Rd-Columbus-OH-43206/33850877_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8437-Nimitz-Dr-Powell-OH-43065/34124344_zpid/

There is no housing crisis. The only crisis is that peoples' expectations don't match the realities of their current situations and that maybe they should make better choices for where they can truly afford to live relative to their education, income, and status in life. No one wants to be told the cold harsh reality of their networth. I'm sorry you can't afford to live in the DMV when you work a job earning $23/hour. Why should we tear down our neighborhoods to cater to your desires simply because you don't want to live in a more affordable area of the country? There are plenty of affordable places to live, you just refuse to move there.

You know the people you're telling to move to Ohio? They're the ones who make your life possible.

Again, if it was truly so unaffordable then all of those people who make all of our lives work would move because they know their true value. Yet they don't.

Welcome to the free market. Who is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to live in this area? Oh wait, that's right, literally no one. Personal choices. Don't complain about dumping $3000 per month in rent because you demand to live in DC as a secretary while there are completely affordable homes in Columbus for under $300k and plenty of companies that need your line work there as well.

A secretary cannot afford a $300k house, plus a car and gas plus child care.

If you want your nanny, housekeeper and all the service and helping professions to be there for you, you need to grow up and understand what their lives are like. Don’t complain when your housekeeper wants $60 an hour and fast food is $20 a meal. Where should teachers, social workers, police, firefighters live. If they move further out, they will not want to commute and then what.

Or, OP and OP's affluent neighbors can all get busy putting out each other's fires, stocking each other's grocery store shelves, teaching each other's children, fixing each other's cars and houses, cleaning each other's houses, repaving each other's streets, serving each other's coffee, and working in each other's doctor's offices. Choices! Personal choices!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its all a tube of toothpaste. You want low wage workers so you can get a burger for under $10? Well you either need to build enough cheap or subsidized housing for them, or deal with 270/495/most other roads being jammed up with drive-till-you-qualifiers coming to make your sandwich.

See, this is where the free market takes over. If burger flippers, teachers, and barbers can't afford to live in the area then the supplies of those who do that labor will go down, leading to a premium in wages that will allow them to eventually afford housing. No one is entitled to live wherever they want. We do not need to upend our way of life because people don't like their personal choices. There is plenty of cheap housing stock in Iowa, Kansas, Pennsylvania, Western MD, etc. It's not my responsibility to provide you housing because you don't want to live there.

Why don't people move to places where housing is cheap because there's very little demand for housing because there's no economic opportunity?!?!?!

Nonsense.

You all complain burger flippers, restaurant staff, teachers and firefighters can't afford to live in this area. Guess what? All of those jobs exist in Kansas, Ohio, Iowa, or Arkansas! Hell, the Dakotas have some of the top performing schools in the entire country if you care about your kids' education so much. You are not entitled to live wherever you want.

Here's a perfectly fine house for $375K in York, PA:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2415-Wildon-Dr-York-PA-17403/60492446_zpid/

York is a small city with jobs for all of the people complaining about costs. They need teachers and restaurant staff.

Here are good enough homes for desperate people in Columbus, Ohio, which is a vibrant enough town for people if all they care about is owning a home:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1465-Lockbourne-Rd-Columbus-OH-43206/33850877_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8437-Nimitz-Dr-Powell-OH-43065/34124344_zpid/

There is no housing crisis. The only crisis is that peoples' expectations don't match the realities of their current situations and that maybe they should make better choices for where they can truly afford to live relative to their education, income, and status in life. No one wants to be told the cold harsh reality of their networth. I'm sorry you can't afford to live in the DMV when you work a job earning $23/hour. Why should we tear down our neighborhoods to cater to your desires simply because you don't want to live in a more affordable area of the country? There are plenty of affordable places to live, you just refuse to move there.

You know the people you're telling to move to Ohio? They're the ones who make your life possible.

Again, if it was truly so unaffordable then all of those people who make all of our lives work would move because they know their true value. Yet they don't.

Welcome to the free market. Who is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to live in this area? Oh wait, that's right, literally no one. Personal choices. Don't complain about dumping $3000 per month in rent because you demand to live in DC as a secretary while there are completely affordable homes in Columbus for under $300k and plenty of companies that need your line work there as well.

A secretary cannot afford a $300k house, plus a car and gas plus child care.

If you want your nanny, housekeeper and all the service and helping professions to be there for you, you need to grow up and understand what their lives are like. Don’t complain when your housekeeper wants $60 an hour and fast food is $20 a meal. Where should teachers, social workers, police, firefighters live. If they move further out, they will not want to commute and then what.

Or, OP and OP's affluent neighbors can all get busy putting out each other's fires, stocking each other's grocery store shelves, teaching each other's children, fixing each other's cars and houses, cleaning each other's houses, repaving each other's streets, serving each other's coffee, and working in each other's doctor's offices. Choices! Personal choices!

OMG, dying.

There is a technique in propaganda where you go so far over the top that it becomes parody. Is this it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle class person with a family who actually does live in an apartment (gasp) in NE DC (shocked silence), I just want to point out that actually there are thousands and thousands of homeless or under housed people in the area. I know because they hang out in my neighborhood.

I have zero issues living in an apartment but it seems obvious to me that we don't have enough low- and middle-income housing that is either close to commercial corridors or accessible to reliable transit. My spouse and I have also done the math on moving further out and commuting so that we could afford a SFH with a yard. For starters, everything further out is also more expensive than it used to be. And second, this would necessitate owning two cars, a major expense. And third it would require additional childcare to cover the hours we'd both spend commuting, at least three days a week. So it doesn't really work out even assuming we could find a SFH for 500k or less.

We are presently looking for jobs in another city where yes, pay is lower overall, but also where housing is much cheaper. I don't think we're the only middle-income family I'm this situation.

My spouse is a civil engineer and I am a preschool teacher.

Exactly. Personal decisions. You've now made the wise decision to move to another area with a lower COL so that you can buy. Literally proves my point. There is no crisis. There's only bloated expectations and entitlement.

Good luck when you can't find experienced teachers or civil engineers in the DMV because they all moved to Columbus and St. Louis and Philly where they can afford to own a SFH with okay schools close in.

It will be great when the city is just wealthy people, poor people, and a bunch of young professionals passing through on their way to other things. Have fun with that.

If we couldn't find teachers and civil engineers, etc., yes that would be a problem. But the fact is we don't have this problem at all. All service needs are met! There is literally no problem at all.

Do you read the educational forum? Teaching needs are not adequately met, at least in Fairfax County. As a former teacher, I couldn’t afford a tent in the town where I taught, so we moved. When I return to education, my expertise, gained from Fairfax County training, will benefit students that compete against DMV kids for college spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A reminder of how incredibly affordable the DC area is.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1535-Lincoln-Way-102-McLean-VA-22102/2061487338_zpid/

249k is not affordable for a one bedroom. Plus insurance, utilities and how. And what if you have kids? Hoa is $600 a month.

lol are you serious?? What do you expect home prices to be? I honestly want to know what you think you a 3 bedroom house in McLean should cost.

I wouldn’t know. I live in an area you’d never live in as it’s more affordable. That’s not affordable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle class person with a family who actually does live in an apartment (gasp) in NE DC (shocked silence), I just want to point out that actually there are thousands and thousands of homeless or under housed people in the area. I know because they hang out in my neighborhood.

I have zero issues living in an apartment but it seems obvious to me that we don't have enough low- and middle-income housing that is either close to commercial corridors or accessible to reliable transit. My spouse and I have also done the math on moving further out and commuting so that we could afford a SFH with a yard. For starters, everything further out is also more expensive than it used to be. And second, this would necessitate owning two cars, a major expense. And third it would require additional childcare to cover the hours we'd both spend commuting, at least three days a week. So it doesn't really work out even assuming we could find a SFH for 500k or less.

We are presently looking for jobs in another city where yes, pay is lower overall, but also where housing is much cheaper. I don't think we're the only middle-income family I'm this situation.

My spouse is a civil engineer and I am a preschool teacher.

Exactly. Personal decisions. You've now made the wise decision to move to another area with a lower COL so that you can buy. Literally proves my point. There is no crisis. There's only bloated expectations and entitlement.

Good luck when you can't find experienced teachers or civil engineers in the DMV because they all moved to Columbus and St. Louis and Philly where they can afford to own a SFH with okay schools close in.

It will be great when the city is just wealthy people, poor people, and a bunch of young professionals passing through on their way to other things. Have fun with that.

If we couldn't find teachers and civil engineers, etc., yes that would be a problem. But the fact is we don't have this problem at all. All service needs are met! There is literally no problem at all.

Do you read the educational forum? Teaching needs are not adequately met, at least in Fairfax County. As a former teacher, I couldn’t afford a tent in the town where I taught, so we moved. When I return to education, my expertise, gained from Fairfax County training, will benefit students that compete against DMV kids for college spots.

Look on the county websites. Lots of vacancies that 15 years ago would not have been there. As a woman, with a masters I stopped working as my entire county salary would have gone to child care and that was 15 years ago for one child. These jobs are not easily filled.