Unpopular opinion: DCPS teachers are super well paid!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can see the max salary of a 10 month teacher is $131k. I’m not sure most teachers are on the PhD scale.

Also, what 3 months don’t teachers work? 😂

The max teacher salary is $146k
https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/page_content/attachments/WTU%20FY20-FY23.pdf

Yes, but most jobs you think of as “teacher” are 10 month positions. The $146k is for 12 month positions.

Who cares what the max salary is? That's not what most teachers make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just got our school budget. Our librarian makes $140k. Most teachers make about $130k and they work for 9 months per year and they get a pension.
I am happy for them but people have to stop with pressuring parents to give them gift cards, valentine presents and all the talk about them not being well paid.
By

This is not valid in other states. I am just talking about DCPS and probably DC metro and other big cities.

That’s it 🙂

Yup. I have 20 years experience and am in a senior role at my large nonprofit and make $126. We have had some lovely, lovely teachers and assistants when my kids were at a title 1 elementary, and I was generous with the gifts. But I no longer go overboard or give gifts to individual teachers in middle and hs. They are professionals!

Do you get $126 gross pay, or is $126 allocated for your salary, any benefits your company employer pays, subs if you are absent etc . . .?

Because a line item in a budget is not a salary.

If 126k is allocated for a teacher, approximately what is their actual salary (pre-tax)?

You managed to not see it posted twice.

https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/page_content/attachments/WTU%20FY20-FY23.pdf

This does not answer my question.

In the budget, they put the average total cost (which includes all the benefits and add ons). The average teacher salary isn't easy to find but it is listed as $93,823 here https://joindcps.dc.gov/become-a-dc-teacher. The starting salary is $63,373. In the budget, whether a teacher makes $63K or $93K, they are listed at the average "total cost" of about $130K.

For how they calculate the average total cost, see https://dcpsbudget.com/budget-model/average-position-cost/.

I'm not talking about a line in a budget, I'm talking about something like this, that lists salaries by name:

https://dchr.dc.gov/public-employee-salary-information

Those are actual salaries.

Ok, well if you look at the teacher salaries on that page (which are old, the most recent data is from 2021), there are many DCPS teachers making at or above 100k. This is a good salary. Yes, there are many people who make more and many of the people who make more provide less value than teachers do. Unquestionably.

I don't understand why it is upsetting to people to note that teachers in DCPS are reasonably well compensated. I view this as a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are public high schools in DC where less than 5% of kids operate at grade level and in some subject, no kid operates at grade level. The teachers at these schools have only decades of failure to show for their time there. And yet they get paid $120k+ and even get raises. Take a geometry teacher who has worked at a school for a decade during which time not one student was proficient in geometry. She would have made close to a million dollars, w/o teaching any student anything. These teachers have essentially made careers out of stealing money from DC taxpayers.

I don't disagree that there are some serious failings in public schools, but if you think the *high school teachers* are to blame for no kids in high school operating at grade level, you are seriously mistaken. Those numbers mean that the wheels fell off some time before 5th grade (and therefore in multiple feeder schools), and there's no possible way for a teacher to bring 25 kids (starting from different failing points) up to sepeed in a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can see the max salary of a 10 month teacher is $131k. I’m not sure most teachers are on the PhD scale.

Also, what 3 months don’t teachers work? 😂

The max teacher salary is $146k
https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/page_content/attachments/WTU%20FY20-FY23.pdf

So most teachers are paid around $80k-ish unless they have at least 15 years experience or a master's degree and then they might earn around $100k?

Factor in the cost of living in the DMV, I would say this amounts to "super well paid"

This is not quite accurate. A significant number of teachers in DC work in Title 1 schools, which results in a pay boost. If you work in a Title 1 school and have 10 years experience, you will be making in the 90-100k range. Add in a masters and you can be making 110-120k. This is a very good salary.

Title 1 schools can vary a ton, though. Some are very well run with good culture and others are not. The student body, by definition, has higher needs than at a non-Title 1 school, but this does not automatically mean the experience is worse for teachers. For many teachers, if you can get a job at a Title 1 with good administration, the experience can be better than a non-Title 1 with bad internal culture or an extremely demanding parent community.

One thing I will say is 100% accurate is that ECE teachers in DCPS are "super well paid" compared to almost anywhere else. This is partly because they are required to be very well-educated -- ECE teachers in DC are required to have a masters degree in early childhood education, and overall the quality of ECE teachers in DCPS is exceedingly high. Since they have to have a masters, they often make more than other teachers in an elementary school despite also having smaller class sizes (generally) and often having teacher's aids as well.

This is compared not to other professions (I think teaching is underpaid as a profession generally, even in DC) but compared to teachers in other places. The fact that you can make 120k in DC as a PK or K teacher is actually really impressive. I think it helps the district attract a very high caliber of ECE teacher.

[Anonymous]

It's really a shame that the post about school funding being cut and schools losing teacher positions has barely registered, but parents have no trouble going on for six pages about how teachers are overpaid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can see the max salary of a 10 month teacher is $131k. I’m not sure most teachers are on the PhD scale.

Also, what 3 months don’t teachers work? 😂

The max teacher salary is $146k
https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/page_content/attachments/WTU%20FY20-FY23.pdf

So most teachers are paid around $80k-ish unless they have at least 15 years experience or a master's degree and then they might earn around $100k?

Factor in the cost of living in the DMV, I would say this amounts to "super well paid"

This is not quite accurate. A significant number of teachers in DC work in Title 1 schools, which results in a pay boost. If you work in a Title 1 school and have 10 years experience, you will be making in the 90-100k range. Add in a masters and you can be making 110-120k. This is a very good salary.

Title 1 schools can vary a ton, though. Some are very well run with good culture and others are not. The student body, by definition, has higher needs than at a non-Title 1 school, but this does not automatically mean the experience is worse for teachers. For many teachers, if you can get a job at a Title 1 with good administration, the experience can be better than a non-Title 1 with bad internal culture or an extremely demanding parent community.

One thing I will say is 100% accurate is that ECE teachers in DCPS are "super well paid" compared to almost anywhere else. This is partly because they are required to be very well-educated -- ECE teachers in DC are required to have a masters degree in early childhood education, and overall the quality of ECE teachers in DCPS is exceedingly high. Since they have to have a masters, they often make more than other teachers in an elementary school despite also having smaller class sizes (generally) and often having teacher's aids as well.

This is compared not to other professions (I think teaching is underpaid as a profession generally, even in DC) but compared to teachers in other places. The fact that you can make 120k in DC as a PK or K teacher is actually really impressive. I think it helps the district attract a very high caliber of ECE teacher.

In the DC area, it's an ok salary. Nothing stellar. For a teacher with a family, unless the spouse is making significant buck, you're living in a townhouse somewhere in the outer burbs and commuting into the city, but at least doing so very early before rush hour gets bad. I work in a field where most people make a similar salary, and generally people do not live in DC, they live in townhouses in the burbs outside of the beltway.

[Anonymous]

ES nanny gets $50K/yr for 2 kids
Teacher gets $130k and is expected to get educational results equivalent to teacher plus nanny for 30 under resourced kids. Not sure that squares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's really a shame that the post about school funding being cut and schools losing teacher positions has barely registered, but parents have no trouble going on for six pages about how teachers are overpaid.

… most of this thread has been pushing back on how absurd it is to say they’re overpaid. That’s why it’s gone on for 6 pages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep your gift cards. Send your kids to school on time, engaged, and excited about learning. Ask the mayor to ensure I don’t have to spend my own money on things like copy paper, Kleenex, and expo markers.

Ensure your students don’t lose their tablets or chargers so that they can actually do work on Canvas. Stop texting and calling your kids during class. Ask the principal to provide and mandate cell phone locker usage so I don’t have to request that phones are put away multiple times during class. Teach your children to be respectful and not cursing like sailors. Stop your kids from skipping class and roaming the halls. Think about the grading policy and how it removes student accountability and the way it sets them up for failure in the future.

I don’t mind my salary because I know teachers in surrounding cities make much less. Here’s a thought, if we are so overpaid, why are there so many teacher vacancies at many schools? Five teachers have left my school since the start of the school year and I know of at least four more (including me) who don’t plan to return.

Yea I don't think your audience is here on dcum. But nice try.

You really need to spend some time in your Ward 3 school if you think this isn't applicable there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCPS teachers are not only extremely well paid, they also get pensions, unlike virtually all other city employees (and unlike basically all private sector employees). They can retire with full benefits at 55! It's an amazing deal.

It just sucks that we couldn't reserve high pay for high performing teachers, given how terrible (generally speaking) DC schools are.

There are elementary school gym teachers who make well into six figures.

[Anonymous]

Of the 10 early elem DCPS teachers my kids have had, each one has been really great. I am happy they are paid well, it's one thing DCPS is doing well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just got our school budget. Our librarian makes $140k. Most teachers make about $130k and they work for 9 months per year and they get a pension.
I am happy for them but people have to stop with pressuring parents to give them gift cards, valentine presents and all the talk about them not being well paid.
By

This is not valid in other states. I am just talking about DCPS and probably DC metro and other big cities.

That’s it 🙂

Yup. I have 20 years experience and am in a senior role at my large nonprofit and make $126. We have had some lovely, lovely teachers and assistants when my kids were at a title 1 elementary, and I was generous with the gifts. But I no longer go overboard or give gifts to individual teachers in middle and hs. They are professionals!

Do you get $126 gross pay, or is $126 allocated for your salary, any benefits your company employer pays, subs if you are absent etc . . .?

Because a line item in a budget is not a salary.

If 126k is allocated for a teacher, approximately what is their actual salary (pre-tax)?

Someone posted a chart. When I used to do a budget for a charter school I was told that of every dollar allocated for a position I could offer 60% in salary and the rest would go to training/PD, subs to cover sick leave and professional coverage (e.g. sub for IEP meeting) and benefits.

Someone else here posted that a 27% figure. I wasn’t sure if that person was in education. But anyway, that comes to 75K to 90K. Which is probably about right.

I posted the 27% and no I’m not in education. My DC gov agency budgets 27%, but you are correct that it may be different for teachers due to subs, PD, etc. But suffice to say, if it’s 27% for a regular employee, it’s at least that for a teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCPS teachers are not only extremely well paid, they also get pensions, unlike virtually all other city employees (and unlike basically all private sector employees). They can retire with full benefits at 55! It's an amazing deal.

It just sucks that we couldn't reserve high pay for high performing teachers, given how terrible (generally speaking) DC schools are.

I’ve posted on other threads about teachers - I’m an attorney (former legal aid, public defender, prosecutor over the course of my career) who is applying to Teach for America as a midlife career changer. I wanted to be a teacher since I was a kid, but was pushed in another direction by judgmental parents who are now thankfully dead.

I have a few years prior teaching experience at the university level when I was a graduate TA and later adjunct faculty.

In anticipation of going to work in Title I schools as a teacher, I recently took a job working in a before and after school program at my local YMCA. These kids all attend Title I schools and 80% are on vouchers because they are from low income families.

All I can say is that given the kind of behaviors I have witnessed in just a few short weeks in this job, I have lowered my expectations to an aspiration that I will be able to help a few kids every year to actually substantially advance in their education.

These kids are being failed in the home first and foremost, and it is unrealistic to expect a single teacher (even with an aide or two in the classroom) to fix all the problems they bring with them to school and impart substantial learning on top of that. Teachers are spending 50% of their classroom time on management and discipline because kids are out of control, disrespectful, coming to school after consuming Dunkin’ or other sugary crap which drives mood swings and provides the brain with zero useful energy for learning.

Our most struggling schools are warehousing kids because the kids aren’t parented, not because the teachers are terrible. And many folks in our society want to force more births that are unwanted on people who shouldn’t be parents at all.

And yes, at this point I fully expect to use the program to get my teaching license and then to move to a district where the majority of the kids are actually parented.

[Anonymous]

It bears repeating that this thread starts with an opinion based on misinformation. The opinion is OP's to have, but the provided provided as a factual motivation, is still incorrect: The stated budgetary costs for teacher (and other positions) are not salaries. They are, well, budgetary costs, which include all manners of costs that have nothing to do with what a teacher is actually paid. Not only that, it's an average, with no regard for the empirical distribution of actual salaries.
Here is where the public pay scales live: https://dcps.dc.gov/node/1057802
And this here may be a good place to gain a truer understanding of living adjusted (actual)teacher salaries compared across states: https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-pay-teachers-the-most-and-least/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can see the max salary of a 10 month teacher is $131k. I’m not sure most teachers are on the PhD scale.

Also, what 3 months don’t teachers work? 😂

The max teacher salary is $146k
https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/page_content/attachments/WTU%20FY20-FY23.pdf

Yes, but most jobs you think of as “teacher” are 10 month positions. The $146k is for 12 month positions.

Wrong. The $146k is for an ET15, which is a 10 month job.