Does your heat pump heat your home in our climate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I once lived in northeast Florida, and it didn't heat our home well THERE.

YEAH OK!!!

You know it's get cold, right? Yes, heat pumps struggle when it's below 30.

perhaps a heat pump from your childhood. they're much better now.

No, 2017.

[Anonymous]

Most everyone in this area has a heat pump with an electric or gas auxiliary system that kicks in to help when the heat pump isn't able to handle the cold. Our auxiliary system only kicks in a handful of times every year.

[Anonymous]

Drafty DC rowhouse owner here. With our furnace, I used to run the HVAC fan for long periods in order to even out temperatures in the house due to the combination of poor vents and drafty brick. Overnight, I'd always have the fan running separate from whether the air conditioning/furnace was on (move cool basement air up/move heated air down).

Switched to a heat pump during the pandemic. Now the heat pump runs for longer periods, more than air conditioning/furnace used to. Overall though I'd say it's equal to how often I used to run the fan without the air conditioning/furnace.

Just one data point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a heat pump that's on today. It's set to 69 and had been running all day although it was 50 degrees outside. I hear it running and think of all the dollars in electricity that are going out the door. I asked both my builder and the hvac installer why the system runs all day and they say when you get below 30 degrees heat pumps loose efficiency. I'll get a few hundred dollar electric bill. I lie to myself and say this is efficient just like my electric dryer that requires 2 cycles to dry a load. I can see through the app how many hours my system has been running. My house is brand new and well insulated.

In my old house I had a gas furnace and gas dryer. It easily got my house to temp and didn't run nearly as as long to maintain the temp and overall was cheaper in monthly cost. That was also a brand new house that was well insulated. Same thing with my clothes dryer. I used to have dry loads before the dryer finished the cycle. The joy on my new house is i have all day sun so in the summer i just hang clothes outside to dry. Its better and faster than the electric dryer.

I tell myself I'm being doing the right thing by choosing electric.

I have to wonder about the quality of new construction. We haven't turned the heat on at all today in MoCo and our house, built in 1990, is at 68 degrees.

The efficiency part of the building code is far, far stricter than it was 30 years ago, it barely existed then. Now it's possible that a house built back then was built better than code, and not every jurisdiction has adopted the most recent codes nor are they always enforced. But in general today's houses are much better insulated than at any time in the past.

But yesterday was clear and sunny, on a mild day solar gain alone can keep a house comfortable. Solar gain is not by itself a sign of quality; excessive solar gain is a sign of poor design.

Fair enough. We do get a lot of light in the afternoon.

I'm curious about the timeline for increases in efficiency requirements. The draftiest house I lived in was a 2003 townhome. You could feel the wind coming right through the windows.

Codes and code enforcement has always been highly local. In 2000 the first national building code, the International Residential Code -- "international" means US and Canada -- was introduced, to date 49 states and DC have adopted it. A new version comes out every three years, so the current version is the 2021 version, and localities vary on how quickly they adopt new versions.

The part of the IRC that deals with energy is called the International Energy Conservation Code, which localities can adopt or not adopt separately from the IRC. The 2015 IECC was the first version to require that all new construction be blower door tested, which is a minimal standard for air-tightness. You can see here a chart comparing the 2009, 2012 and 2021 codes:
https://basc.pnnl.gov/information/2009-2021-iecc-and-irc-minimum-insulation-requirements-new-homes

For instance, in our climate, Zone 4, the 2009 code required ceiling insulation of R38, 2012 required R49 and 2021 requires R60.

[Anonymous]

From an HVAC contractor: Old school heat pumps are marginal for our area; Anytime we get a stretch of weather with highs in the 20s my phone rings off the hook with people complaining about their systems running all the time; using the auxiliary heat; not keeping up to set temperate, etc. The new inverter systems keep capacity to much lower outdoor temperature and blow heat that actually feel warm through the registers. They can perform just as well as a gas/oil appliance.

Would I ditch an oil or propane furnace/ boiler for an inverter heat pump - absolutely. Would I ditch the 2 natural gas furnaces in my home for them; hell no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most everyone in this area has a heat pump with an electric or gas auxiliary system that kicks in to help when the heat pump isn't able to handle the cold. Our auxiliary system only kicks in a handful of times every year.

You should not need an auxiliary system in this region - we've barely had a deep frost the last 4 years.

Heat pumps actually work just fine even in very cold areas they just use a lot of energy when the temp drops below 25 degrees which fortunately is very rare in this area.

Folks would be much better off spending their money on better windows and insulation than an auxiliary system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heat pumps are fine but if you are used to gas heat and then move to heat pump, it will not feel as warm.

Gas heat feels warmer if that makes sense. Heat pump is not as intense heat.

That's right. Heat pump heat is dry and drafty. It only feel warm if it goes to emergency/ electric heat, which uses more electricity. You need a whole house humidifyer, too. Other than that, it's fine.

Umm this isn't true - heat pumps actually put out more humid air - it is one of the subtle benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a heat pump that's on today. It's set to 69 and had been running all day although it was 50 degrees outside. I hear it running and think of all the dollars in electricity that are going out the door. I asked both my builder and the hvac installer why the system runs all day and they say when you get below 30 degrees heat pumps loose efficiency. I'll get a few hundred dollar electric bill. I lie to myself and say this is efficient just like my electric dryer that requires 2 cycles to dry a load. I can see through the app how many hours my system has been running. My house is brand new and well insulated.

In my old house I had a gas furnace and gas dryer. It easily got my house to temp and didn't run nearly as as long to maintain the temp and overall was cheaper in monthly cost. That was also a brand new house that was well insulated. Same thing with my clothes dryer. I used to have dry loads before the dryer finished the cycle. The joy on my new house is i have all day sun so in the summer i just hang clothes outside to dry. Its better and faster than the electric dryer.

I tell myself I'm being doing the right thing by choosing electric.

LOL - you are not doing the right thing running the heat in mid October?!?

No wonder our planet is on fire - pretty soon you won't need to run the heat at all because we won't have winter thanks to our being a bunch of snowflakes who can't put on a long sleeve shirt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most everyone in this area has a heat pump with an electric or gas auxiliary system that kicks in to help when the heat pump isn't able to handle the cold. Our auxiliary system only kicks in a handful of times every year.

Everyone who has a heat pump with auxillary heat know to not use auxullary heat or shudders when it comes on--$$$$ in electric bill. Oh wait, we can just use gas heat instead!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heat pumps are fine but if you are used to gas heat and then move to heat pump, it will not feel as warm.

Gas heat feels warmer if that makes sense. Heat pump is not as intense heat.

That's right. Heat pump heat is dry and drafty. It only feel warm if it goes to emergency/ electric heat, which uses more electricity. You need a whole house humidifyer, too. Other than that, it's fine.

Umm this isn't true - heat pumps actually put out more humid air - it is one of the subtle benefits.

not warm, damp air. that is what I am looking for in the winter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most everyone in this area has a heat pump with an electric or gas auxiliary system that kicks in to help when the heat pump isn't able to handle the cold. Our auxiliary system only kicks in a handful of times every year.

You should not need an auxiliary system in this region - we've barely had a deep frost the last 4 years.

Heat pumps actually work just fine even in very cold areas they just use a lot of energy when the temp drops below 25 degrees which fortunately is very rare in this area.

Folks would be much better off spending their money on better windows and insulation than an auxiliary system.

don't want to pay this extra expense when I can just use gas and have a cheaper bill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a heat pump that's on today. It's set to 69 and had been running all day although it was 50 degrees outside. I hear it running and think of all the dollars in electricity that are going out the door. I asked both my builder and the hvac installer why the system runs all day and they say when you get below 30 degrees heat pumps loose efficiency. I'll get a few hundred dollar electric bill. I lie to myself and say this is efficient just like my electric dryer that requires 2 cycles to dry a load. I can see through the app how many hours my system has been running. My house is brand new and well insulated.

In my old house I had a gas furnace and gas dryer. It easily got my house to temp and didn't run nearly as as long to maintain the temp and overall was cheaper in monthly cost. That was also a brand new house that was well insulated. Same thing with my clothes dryer. I used to have dry loads before the dryer finished the cycle. The joy on my new house is i have all day sun so in the summer i just hang clothes outside to dry. Its better and faster than the electric dryer.

I tell myself I'm being doing the right thing by choosing electric.

LOL - you are not doing the right thing running the heat in mid October?!?

No wonder our planet is on fire - pretty soon you won't need to run the heat at all because we won't have winter thanks to our being a bunch of snowflakes who can't put on a long sleeve shirt.

I'd love to keep the system off but I have kids who complain of being cold.at night if I let the house get cold. Our house got down to 64 degrees. It was too cold for the kids even with sweaters and slippers and warm socks. I turned it on and set it to 69 which is the temp I maintain all year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most everyone in this area has a heat pump with an electric or gas auxiliary system that kicks in to help when the heat pump isn't able to handle the cold. Our auxiliary system only kicks in a handful of times every year.

The auxiliary resistance heating that kicks in when the heat pump isn’t able to heat is extremely inefficient and expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most everyone in this area has a heat pump with an electric or gas auxiliary system that kicks in to help when the heat pump isn't able to handle the cold. Our auxiliary system only kicks in a handful of times every year.

You should not need an auxiliary system in this region - we've barely had a deep frost the last 4 years.

Heat pumps actually work just fine even in very cold areas they just use a lot of energy when the temp drops below 25 degrees which fortunately is very rare in this area.

Folks would be much better off spending their money on better windows and insulation than an auxiliary system.

don't want to pay this extra expense when I can just use gas and have a cheaper bill

Don't worry - climate change will lighten your wallet anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heat pumps are fine but if you are used to gas heat and then move to heat pump, it will not feel as warm.

Gas heat feels warmer if that makes sense. Heat pump is not as intense heat.

That's right. Heat pump heat is dry and drafty. It only feel warm if it goes to emergency/ electric heat, which uses more electricity. You need a whole house humidifyer, too. Other than that, it's fine.

Umm this isn't true - heat pumps actually put out more humid air - it is one of the subtle benefits.

No heating system dries or humidifies the air.

The reason indoor air is drier during the heating season is that cold outdoor air holds a lot less moisture than warm air. When that outdoor air leaks into the house and is warmed up it feels dry.

Forced air heat of any kind will make a house leak more air than a heating system that doesn't use pressurized air, like radiators. In traditional forced air you have a vent in just about every room and one or more returns. To get the air to flow, the vents are slightly pressurized, and the returns create a slight vacuum. If the house is leaky, the pressure causes more air to leak out, and the vacuum causes more air to leak in.

All other things being equal, forced air will make a house leak more than radiators, and a forced air system that moves less air will cause a house to leak less than one that moves more air. One of the things about minisplit systems is that the return and vent are in the same spot and they don't create a pressure differential that increases leakage.

You get the same effect in the summer -- running the air conditioning increases air leakage. Except in the summer the outdoor air is more humid than the indoor air, so it makes the inside more humid rather than drier.