red shirting question

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP and ditto PP-
What is being asked if kids in k is NOT developmentally appropriate. And that keeps being the case as the kids get older. What the curriculum is pushing is not based on what kids can do at the age- ask elementary teachers. If the curriculum and behavior expectations are not deveopmebtally appropriate then I can choose to start my kid a little late. It has nothing to do with you and your child. It isn’t about being competitive. It is about the curriculum and instruction matching what kids need. It is on you making this a competition among kids. I’m simply thinking of my child’s educational experience.

People throw around this phrase "developmentally appropriate" as if all kids were as dumb as theirs. There are many many 4 year olds who can read and do math at a 1st grade level. The K standards are fine. If you hold back you kid from starting K because youre afraid he wont be able to learn to read or add, then work on those skills over the summer before K starts.

K is just one year of school there are 12 more years to come that other think and plan ahead for. Plus you have no idea what the reasons are people are holding back. Asinine advice that workbooks are the answer.

+1 as a teacher it is painful to see that short-sighted response

On the internet anyone can be a teacher.

I have never met a working elementary school teacher who thought redshirting was a good idea. Every elementary school teacher I've talked to has said it was best to start kids on time even if they will be the youngest, simply because older children getting bored is a bigger problem that persists and gets worse.

Only preschool teachers advocate for repeating preschool instead of moving along. Gee, I wonder why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP and ditto PP-
What is being asked if kids in k is NOT developmentally appropriate. And that keeps being the case as the kids get older. What the curriculum is pushing is not based on what kids can do at the age- ask elementary teachers. If the curriculum and behavior expectations are not deveopmebtally appropriate then I can choose to start my kid a little late. It has nothing to do with you and your child. It isn’t about being competitive. It is about the curriculum and instruction matching what kids need. It is on you making this a competition among kids. I’m simply thinking of my child’s educational experience.

People throw around this phrase "developmentally appropriate" as if all kids were as dumb as theirs. There are many many 4 year olds who can read and do math at a 1st grade level. The K standards are fine. If you hold back you kid from starting K because youre afraid he wont be able to learn to read or add, then work on those skills over the summer before K starts.

K is just one year of school there are 12 more years to come that other think and plan ahead for. Plus you have no idea what the reasons are people are holding back. Asinine advice that workbooks are the answer.

Planning for 12 more years of your kid being a dunce? OK lady.

The dunce here is obvious. Look in the mirror.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP and ditto PP-
What is being asked if kids in k is NOT developmentally appropriate. And that keeps being the case as the kids get older. What the curriculum is pushing is not based on what kids can do at the age- ask elementary teachers. If the curriculum and behavior expectations are not deveopmebtally appropriate then I can choose to start my kid a little late. It has nothing to do with you and your child. It isn’t about being competitive. It is about the curriculum and instruction matching what kids need. It is on you making this a competition among kids. I’m simply thinking of my child’s educational experience.

People throw around this phrase "developmentally appropriate" as if all kids were as dumb as theirs. There are many many 4 year olds who can read and do math at a 1st grade level. The K standards are fine. If you hold back you kid from starting K because youre afraid he wont be able to learn to read or add, then work on those skills over the summer before K starts.

K is just one year of school there are 12 more years to come that other think and plan ahead for. Plus you have no idea what the reasons are people are holding back. Asinine advice that workbooks are the answer.

+1 as a teacher it is painful to see that short-sighted response

On the internet anyone can be a teacher.

I have never met a working elementary school teacher who thought redshirting was a good idea. Every elementary school teacher I've talked to has said it was best to start kids on time even if they will be the youngest, simply because older children getting bored is a bigger problem that persists and gets worse.

Only preschool teachers advocate for repeating preschool instead of moving along. Gee, I wonder why?

You sound delusional. This is not correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP and ditto PP-
What is being asked if kids in k is NOT developmentally appropriate. And that keeps being the case as the kids get older. What the curriculum is pushing is not based on what kids can do at the age- ask elementary teachers. If the curriculum and behavior expectations are not deveopmebtally appropriate then I can choose to start my kid a little late. It has nothing to do with you and your child. It isn’t about being competitive. It is about the curriculum and instruction matching what kids need. It is on you making this a competition among kids. I’m simply thinking of my child’s educational experience.

People throw around this phrase "developmentally appropriate" as if all kids were as dumb as theirs. There are many many 4 year olds who can read and do math at a 1st grade level. The K standards are fine. If you hold back you kid from starting K because youre afraid he wont be able to learn to read or add, then work on those skills over the summer before K starts.

K is just one year of school there are 12 more years to come that other think and plan ahead for. Plus you have no idea what the reasons are people are holding back. Asinine advice that workbooks are the answer.

+1 as a teacher it is painful to see that short-sighted response

On the internet anyone can be a teacher.

I have never met a working elementary school teacher who thought redshirting was a good idea. Every elementary school teacher I've talked to has said it was best to start kids on time even if they will be the youngest, simply because older children getting bored is a bigger problem that persists and gets worse.

Only preschool teachers advocate for repeating preschool instead of moving along. Gee, I wonder why?

Translation: I’ve never talked to an actual working elementary teacher as an adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP and ditto PP-
What is being asked if kids in k is NOT developmentally appropriate. And that keeps being the case as the kids get older. What the curriculum is pushing is not based on what kids can do at the age- ask elementary teachers. If the curriculum and behavior expectations are not deveopmebtally appropriate then I can choose to start my kid a little late. It has nothing to do with you and your child. It isn’t about being competitive. It is about the curriculum and instruction matching what kids need. It is on you making this a competition among kids. I’m simply thinking of my child’s educational experience.

People throw around this phrase "developmentally appropriate" as if all kids were as dumb as theirs. There are many many 4 year olds who can read and do math at a 1st grade level. The K standards are fine. If you hold back you kid from starting K because youre afraid he wont be able to learn to read or add, then work on those skills over the summer before K starts.

K is just one year of school there are 12 more years to come that other think and plan ahead for. Plus you have no idea what the reasons are people are holding back. Asinine advice that workbooks are the answer.

+1 as a teacher it is painful to see that short-sighted response

On the internet anyone can be a teacher.

I have never met a working elementary school teacher who thought redshirting was a good idea. Every elementary school teacher I've talked to has said it was best to start kids on time even if they will be the youngest, simply because older children getting bored is a bigger problem that persists and gets worse.

Only preschool teachers advocate for repeating preschool instead of moving along. Gee, I wonder why?

You sound delusional. This is not correct.

Often the push comes from preschool teachers, many of whom didn't prepare the kids well in terms of the basics. If your child has SN that you or the preschool didn't catch, the best thing is for them to be in K to get evaluated and support. Holding them back artificially makes them more mature but that's only because the baseline has moved down, not because your child is doing better or actually more mature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A question about fairness!

How is it fair for red shirted kids to be in a class with my late June birthday kid? Developmentally they are going to be ahead, do the teachers care or take this into consideration?? It doesn't seem fair. Some can be almost 9 months older.

You could naturally have kids who are 364 days apart. Redshirting adds a bit to this, but it’s usually not that far off — kids with Aug bdays holding off. Your kid will be fine.

The problem comes in when kids are 14-18 month difference and the teachers are not looking at what's developmentally appropriate for too old for the grade kids as well as younger for the grade kids. My kid is absolutely fine but we've had teachers with unrealistic expectations when comparing the students, some who were 12-18 months older.

+1, and this exacerbates an existing issue, which is that kindergarten curriculums are already increasingly not developmentally appropriate, with too many expectations for kids to sit quietly in chairs and work independently or focus on worksheets or instruction for long periods of time. This is not something that is reasonable to expect (or force on) the average 5 year old, but redshirting conceals how inappropriate these expectations are by putting a certain number of kids in the classroom who are a year older (actually 1st graders) and therefore do better with these parameters.

What we should be doing is shifting kindergarten expectations across the board to better meat 5/6 year old kids where they are at. Instead of leaving it to parents to hold their kids back in order on a case by case basis.

-1 of course K is developmentally appropriate. My child technically started at 4 and had no issue doing the work or sitting. Why? Because we, the preschools and others adequately prepared the child. Sounds like you didn't prepare your child well if they were struggling that much. If kids have developmental delays all the more reason to start them so they are with age appropriate peers with an age appropriate curriculum and IEP/SPED services that they parents most likely aren't doing privately.

What even are you talking about? No, asking children to sit quietly and do worksheets at 5 years old is not developmentally appropriate. It doesn't matter if the child CAN do this or not -- it's not good for them. Kindergarten used to be more play-based with more socialization, games, music and movement, and less direct academic instruction. But over the last 20 years, schools are increasingly shifting the 1st grade curriculum down to kindergarten, especially with regards to reading, due to parent pressure and uninformed media coverage about test scores (there is no evidence that teaching reading leads to higher ELA scores later, and in fact some indication that the opposite may be true).

No amount of preparation can magically make a 5 year old (or in your case, a 4 year old, poor kid) into a chid who should be sitting in a chair spending a significant part of his or her day learning math facts and sight words, but that's what kindergarten looks like in much of the country.

Which is one reason some parents redshirt, because it sucks. But instead of giving parents broad leeway to redshirt, we should return to the old kindergarten model, which used K as an opportunity to develop kids socio-emotional skills and prep them for the more intensive academic instruction they would begin in 1st.

What are you talking about? That's not how it's done in K and K is slow and dull for kids who have been prepared as they have to wait for the other kids to catch up. Kids should start reading in K, but for those of us who work with our kids, many are reading before K. It sounds like you didn't adequately prepare your kids and then are complaining they aren't prepared when that's 100% on you. Then you expect the rest of our kids to be dumbed down and sit through basic curriculum. This is where they should start tracking starting in K.

[Anonymous]

I hope you’ve never bought a house in a formerly redlined school district.
Oh wait. You almost certainly have. Are you planning to sell it to remove the enormous racist advantage you gave your child?

what in the h*ll is wrong with you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A question about fairness!

How is it fair for red shirted kids to be in a class with my late June birthday kid? Developmentally they are going to be ahead, do the teachers care or take this into consideration?? It doesn't seem fair. Some can be almost 9 months older.

Well…How is it fair for a kid with a late august birthday to be in a class with a kid with a September (of the previous year) birthday?

The real issue is how fair is it for a August/September kid who was not held back to be in with kids from March-May who were held back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A question about fairness!

How is it fair for red shirted kids to be in a class with my late June birthday kid? Developmentally they are going to be ahead, do the teachers care or take this into consideration?? It doesn't seem fair. Some can be almost 9 months older.

Well…How is it fair for a kid with a late august birthday to be in a class with a kid with a September (of the previous year) birthday?

Why is it okay for the kid to be with kids who are 12 months older, but 13 months older is suddenly is UNFAIR!!!? There’s nothing magical about a 12 month span. Why not start complaining when kids are 11 months older than yours?

There needs to be a cut off but the expectation goes toward older kids so its unfair to a younger child who is being compared with kids 14-18 month age difference and being called behind or immature when they aren't the ones behind or immature and the older kids actually are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A question about fairness!

How is it fair for red shirted kids to be in a class with my late June birthday kid? Developmentally they are going to be ahead, do the teachers care or take this into consideration?? It doesn't seem fair. Some can be almost 9 months older.

You could naturally have kids who are 364 days apart. Redshirting adds a bit to this, but it’s usually not that far off — kids with Aug bdays holding off. Your kid will be fine.

The problem comes in when kids are 14-18 month difference and the teachers are not looking at what's developmentally appropriate for too old for the grade kids as well as younger for the grade kids. My kid is absolutely fine but we've had teachers with unrealistic expectations when comparing the students, some who were 12-18 months older.

+1, and this exacerbates an existing issue, which is that kindergarten curriculums are already increasingly not developmentally appropriate, with too many expectations for kids to sit quietly in chairs and work independently or focus on worksheets or instruction for long periods of time. This is not something that is reasonable to expect (or force on) the average 5 year old, but redshirting conceals how inappropriate these expectations are by putting a certain number of kids in the classroom who are a year older (actually 1st graders) and therefore do better with these parameters.

What we should be doing is shifting kindergarten expectations across the board to better meat 5/6 year old kids where they are at. Instead of leaving it to parents to hold their kids back in order on a case by case basis.

-1 of course K is developmentally appropriate. My child technically started at 4 and had no issue doing the work or sitting. Why? Because we, the preschools and others adequately prepared the child. Sounds like you didn't prepare your child well if they were struggling that much. If kids have developmental delays all the more reason to start them so they are with age appropriate peers with an age appropriate curriculum and IEP/SPED services that they parents most likely aren't doing privately.

What even are you talking about? No, asking children to sit quietly and do worksheets at 5 years old is not developmentally appropriate. It doesn't matter if the child CAN do this or not -- it's not good for them. Kindergarten used to be more play-based with more socialization, games, music and movement, and less direct academic instruction. But over the last 20 years, schools are increasingly shifting the 1st grade curriculum down to kindergarten, especially with regards to reading, due to parent pressure and uninformed media coverage about test scores (there is no evidence that teaching reading leads to higher ELA scores later, and in fact some indication that the opposite may be true).

No amount of preparation can magically make a 5 year old (or in your case, a 4 year old, poor kid) into a chid who should be sitting in a chair spending a significant part of his or her day learning math facts and sight words, but that's what kindergarten looks like in much of the country.

Which is one reason some parents redshirt, because it sucks. But instead of giving parents broad leeway to redshirt, we should return to the old kindergarten model, which used K as an opportunity to develop kids socio-emotional skills and prep them for the more intensive academic instruction they would begin in 1st.

What are you talking about? That's not how it's done in K and K is slow and dull for kids who have been prepared as they have to wait for the other kids to catch up. Kids should start reading in K, but for those of us who work with our kids, many are reading before K. It sounds like you didn't adequately prepare your kids and then are complaining they aren't prepared when that's 100% on you. Then you expect the rest of our kids to be dumbed down and sit through basic curriculum. This is where they should start tracking starting in K.

You are confusing metrics. You think what we don't like about K is that it is too *hard*. Nope. My kid started reading the summer between PK4 and K, and was among the most advanced readers in her K classroom, despite being among the youngest kids. Academically, my kid was more than prepared for K and there was nothing about the academics that were too advanced -- she finished the year well above grade level.

What sucked about K was: tons of time sitting and doing worksheets, getting in lines, moving to other classrooms for specials where the teaching was mediocre, too much screen time, insufficient recess, little to no time to do exploratory play and art or music, etc.

You think the issue is that we are upset our kids weren't prepared for the glorious academic challenges of K. No, my child was able to complete the phonics and math worksheets she was given daily in K quite easily. What she was not prepared for was how freaking BORING K would be, how little opportunities to move her body, get creative, develop social skills, etc. Because it is not possible for a 5 year old to be prepared for that stuff, because it is not developmental appropriate and no 5 year old benefits from a classroom environment like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A question about fairness!

How is it fair for red shirted kids to be in a class with my late June birthday kid? Developmentally they are going to be ahead, do the teachers care or take this into consideration?? It doesn't seem fair. Some can be almost 9 months older.

Do you read to your child? Pay for supplements? Are you MC and above? Does your child have health insurance? Safe housing? Stable access to food?

If so, how is it fair for kids in your child’s class who don’t have the above to be in class with your child? Or do you not care about those kids?

Grow up. You are so embarrassing and ridiculous. I didn’t redshirt, I just cannot stand DCUMs whiny, narcissistic, and pathetic anti redshirters.

You are always the most vitriolic person on any red shirting thread. I mean, look at your language in this post, which is 10x more dramatic than anything anyone else has posted.

Usually when people object to red shirting, it's the situations in which it's fully discretionary. Like not situations where a child has an identified developmental disadvantage. It's the people who hold back their summer birthdays (usually boys) because they don't want their sons to be on the smaller side in school. There are also people who do it explicitly for advantages in athletics (and in fact that is where the word comes from, as it originally only described "red shirted" college freshman who would be recruited but not played their freshman year in order to give them time to get bigger/stronger/more competitive).

There are obviously fairness concerns with discretionary redshirting and they are never going to go away, no matter how angry and vicious you get on DCUM threads on the subject.

DP.

You are way too obsessed with redshirt conversation role play.

Different kids are born in different months. Deal with it.

[Anonymous]

You have no one but yourself to blame for cheaping out and not managing your fertility or adoption plan to get a child with a premium birthday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A question about fairness!

How is it fair for red shirted kids to be in a class with my late June birthday kid? Developmentally they are going to be ahead, do the teachers care or take this into consideration?? It doesn't seem fair. Some can be almost 9 months older.

You could naturally have kids who are 364 days apart. Redshirting adds a bit to this, but it’s usually not that far off — kids with Aug bdays holding off. Your kid will be fine.

The problem comes in when kids are 14-18 month difference and the teachers are not looking at what's developmentally appropriate for too old for the grade kids as well as younger for the grade kids. My kid is absolutely fine but we've had teachers with unrealistic expectations when comparing the students, some who were 12-18 months older.

+1, and this exacerbates an existing issue, which is that kindergarten curriculums are already increasingly not developmentally appropriate, with too many expectations for kids to sit quietly in chairs and work independently or focus on worksheets or instruction for long periods of time. This is not something that is reasonable to expect (or force on) the average 5 year old, but redshirting conceals how inappropriate these expectations are by putting a certain number of kids in the classroom who are a year older (actually 1st graders) and therefore do better with these parameters.

What we should be doing is shifting kindergarten expectations across the board to better meat 5/6 year old kids where they are at. Instead of leaving it to parents to hold their kids back in order on a case by case basis.

-1 of course K is developmentally appropriate. My child technically started at 4 and had no issue doing the work or sitting. Why? Because we, the preschools and others adequately prepared the child. Sounds like you didn't prepare your child well if they were struggling that much. If kids have developmental delays all the more reason to start them so they are with age appropriate peers with an age appropriate curriculum and IEP/SPED services that they parents most likely aren't doing privately.

What even are you talking about? No, asking children to sit quietly and do worksheets at 5 years old is not developmentally appropriate. It doesn't matter if the child CAN do this or not -- it's not good for them. Kindergarten used to be more play-based with more socialization, games, music and movement, and less direct academic instruction. But over the last 20 years, schools are increasingly shifting the 1st grade curriculum down to kindergarten, especially with regards to reading, due to parent pressure and uninformed media coverage about test scores (there is no evidence that teaching reading leads to higher ELA scores later, and in fact some indication that the opposite may be true).

No amount of preparation can magically make a 5 year old (or in your case, a 4 year old, poor kid) into a chid who should be sitting in a chair spending a significant part of his or her day learning math facts and sight words, but that's what kindergarten looks like in much of the country.

Which is one reason some parents redshirt, because it sucks. But instead of giving parents broad leeway to redshirt, we should return to the old kindergarten model, which used K as an opportunity to develop kids socio-emotional skills and prep them for the more intensive academic instruction they would begin in 1st.

What are you talking about? That's not how it's done in K and K is slow and dull for kids who have been prepared as they have to wait for the other kids to catch up. Kids should start reading in K, but for those of us who work with our kids, many are reading before K. It sounds like you didn't adequately prepare your kids and then are complaining they aren't prepared when that's 100% on you. Then you expect the rest of our kids to be dumbed down and sit through basic curriculum. This is where they should start tracking starting in K.

You are confusing metrics. You think what we don't like about K is that it is too *hard*. Nope. My kid started reading the summer between PK4 and K, and was among the most advanced readers in her K classroom, despite being among the youngest kids. Academically, my kid was more than prepared for K and there was nothing about the academics that were too advanced -- she finished the year well above grade level.

What sucked about K was: tons of time sitting and doing worksheets, getting in lines, moving to other classrooms for specials where the teaching was mediocre, too much screen time, insufficient recess, little to no time to do exploratory play and art or music, etc.

You think the issue is that we are upset our kids weren't prepared for the glorious academic challenges of K. No, my child was able to complete the phonics and math worksheets she was given daily in K quite easily. What she was not prepared for was how freaking BORING K would be, how little opportunities to move her body, get creative, develop social skills, etc. Because it is not possible for a 5 year old to be prepared for that stuff, because it is not developmental appropriate and no 5 year old benefits from a classroom environment like this.

That is k. Sounds like your preschool was bad if they were not prepared. It is appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have no one but yourself to blame for cheaping out and not managing your fertility or adoption plan to get a child with a premium birthday.

Our adoption plan got messed up when kid was two weeks later than promised.

[Anonymous]

Is it ok with you that a kid will turn almost a whole year older than your child if they are a September birthday?