4th grader sucks at math, goes to lackadaisical DCPS, what should we do about middle school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I strongly agree with others encouraging OP to research dyscalculia and look into testing for that specific math learning disability. I wish we’d done it sooner. Our child exhibited very similar math difficulties around 4th/5th grade. They got worse in middle school and of course were compounded by the pandemic. Fast forward to high school and we finally got a diagnosis of dyscalculia after a disastrous algebra experience.

Dyscalculia is under-diagnosed and still not well understood but there are some tell-tale signs. Good luck!

OK but sounds like many have not carefully read what OP wrote. She said many or most of the kids in the class are doing the same or worst. Her child is not an outlier. She does not think it’s a developmental delay but under-education because "well, everybody else in this DCPS Title I elementary is doing this bad so shrug."

OP says it's Ward 4, and there is no elementary school in Ward 4 where all the kids are doing that bad. And OP said her other kids did fine there.

No she did not say her other kid did fine at the same school. She said that parents/siblings/other kids did fine at varied schools, not the same school as this child.

She says she is at a title 1 DCPS school in ward 4. So yes, if greater than 50% of the kids are not scoring a 4 on PARCC at a school in ward 4 and scoring 1 and 2 then yes majority of kids are that bad. Guess you have not seen the data from DC how the lowest performers have declined dramatically in abilities since COVID.

Get out of your denial. PP is like you and why her kid is now in the position he is.

Ok, OP actually said "many or most" of the kids are doing the same or worse. Assuming that means scoring a 1 or a 2, there are a few DCPS elementary schools in Ward 4 performing that low, but not all. Depending on how you define "many", I suppose.

OP also said the schools her kids have gone to have varied a lot. Could that be playing a role? If the kid has been exposed to many different math curricula without enough time in any one program, that could make learning more difficult.

This child has not gone to multiple schools. He has only gone to this title 1 school. She naively thought that since he came from an educated UMC family that the child would do well no matter what school she placed him in. Therefore she had no issues placing him in a poorly performing title 1 school.

The underlying problem is she bought into the kool aid that her kid will do fine no matter what the curriculum or ability level of the other kids in the class. She likely believed all the title 1 boosters on here. The reality is that she needed to supplement early on and continue to. Her kid is getting by in the teachers eyes because there are so many kids doing worst. He is not their focus per OP at the school.

[Anonymous]

Don’t know if my kid’s experience might help you. I would suggest to work on math supplementation now.

My child came from a lackadaisical formerly highly regarded charter school that lost its shine during the pandemic. My child always got good grades in elementary but when they got to Basis the pre-school year testing showed them as quite a bit behind their peers in math. My child struggled for two years barely passing math. But their standardized test scores went up by 30 points!!! We are glad we are at Basis even though it has not been easy to catch up. We discovered lots of gaps due to pandemic learning loss fundamentals- and due to the low expectations elementary.
My child is finally more caught up through a combination of:

-Khans. We worked through the free online grade level courses & pinpointed areas of gaps. We did this during the summers.
-Requesting the school give access at home to iready / IXL etc.
- Taking advantage of free tutoring & summer school for multiple years.
-We should have started to do the extra practice problems earlier. They just needed more practice/ repetition.
-We worked at home to memorize times tables. Lackadaisical HRCS hadn’t bothered & we didn’t know that hadn’t happened until we were smacked in the face with a kid learning algebra & struggling with basic division.

We considered testing for learning disability but felt the growth in standardized test scores just showed that the instruction has been inadequate before.

[Anonymous]

You need to send your kid to Kumon for a couple of years to gain mathematical fluency. Your child is still counting on his or her fingers up to 10? There is no way to be good in math doing that.

Kumon works on math facts. You pay around $180 a month for your child to go to the Kumon center 1-2 times a week to work on a math packet, then your child will do math packets the other 5-6 days at home. So 15 minutes a day for younger students to 20-30 minutes a day for older students, 365 days a year.

Your child will start with adding +1 to numbers until it becomes automatic then +2, etc. Level A is math single digit addition. No counting on fingers is allowed. It teaches speed plus accuracy. Then level b is subtraction, c is multiplication, d is division, e is fractions.

My child did kumon starting at the end of third grade when I realized no one at school was requiring him to truly memorize math facts. He did it for two years until the end of 5th. He went from being behind in math to ahead. A huge benefit is that he is so much speedier in math so math homework is done faster now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fwiw, fact fluency is a huge emphasis in DCPS this year. We (teachers) are being coached heavily in it and I think there will be more focus on it in the next few years as we get stronger in implementing this new program.

Yes my child moved from a DCPS Title 1 school to an international school and fact fluency seems to be a big hole for him, whereas he is way ahead in reading. I wondered if the DCPS math curriculum played a role in this.

[Anonymous]

+1

Our DCPS kids have needed more drilling on math facts. They had an amazing teacher in 2-3, but for the younger one, that was during the pandemic. Even though the teacher taught his ass off, my younger one was not fluent in her times tables in 4th. I realized this kind of late and we tackled with flash cards, writing out times tables, reciting in the car, learning tricks, etc. she is now in 6th, and still only had a 3 in math on parcc last year, so I want to do more. I think we can handle via khan academy, and she’s already started to take initiative herself to do. Like my husband and I, her strengths are more in reading and writing, and she is really ahead in those areas. I’ve suggested Mathnasium or Russian school of math to her, but she’s not interested and it’s not convenient to where we live/our schedule. But we’ll see. We may have to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1

Our DCPS kids have needed more drilling on math facts. They had an amazing teacher in 2-3, but for the younger one, that was during the pandemic. Even though the teacher taught his ass off, my younger one was not fluent in her times tables in 4th. I realized this kind of late and we tackled with flash cards, writing out times tables, reciting in the car, learning tricks, etc. she is now in 6th, and still only had a 3 in math on parcc last year, so I want to do more. I think we can handle via khan academy, and she’s already started to take initiative herself to do. Like my husband and I, her strengths are more in reading and writing, and she is really ahead in those areas. I’ve suggested Mathnasium or Russian school of math to her, but she’s not interested and it’s not convenient to where we live/our schedule. But we’ll see. We may have to do that.

Might also try Beast Academy if you haven’t already. Lots of DCUM threads on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I put this here in the most unfriendly/ranting terms so that you get the deal without all the self-delusion typical for DCUM. In real life, I say none of this and really love and help our very kind fourth-grader.

But my wonderful fourth-grader sucks at math.

We live in Ward 4 and have our kid in a DCPS where many or most of the kids are doing the same or worse, but again not to sugarcoat it, we're a dual income meritocrat high-income family whose parents/siblings/other kids have done more than good in school, basically excelled always, whichever schools we've gone to (which have varied a lot)....and our baseline expectations are either excellence without extraordinary effort (parents and other kids) or at least ability in line with elementary school kids in Ward 3.

But, again, this kid sucks at math. Like in multiplication problems on homework, doesn't figure out that multiplication is the way to solve the problem. Doesn't know the times table. Counts with fingers up to 10. UP TO 10. Any time there's a math problem, sidles around the problem to try to get us parents to tell them the answer.

To me, this distinctly seems like undereducation. Not necessarily a developmental delay or anything, just "well, everybody else in this DCPS Title I elementary is doing this bad so shrug." I am not surprised if that's the way it really is for the teachers there, who probably work from the worst kids on up, triage style, and this kid, who's not failing but not excelling, gets ignored.

My question now isn't "tutors, supplementing, ask the teachers to explain, have a meeting, call the principal, get a counselor, consider mental health challenges and screen time, blah blah blah" (Again I'm writing like this because I'm anonymously venting, not because I sound like this or want to cause drama in real life).

The question is - where can I get better for my kid in middle school? A place that will actually get this kid to build capacity to identify problems, answer them with specific learned techniques, and thereby become a capable math student? ALSO It has to be a school that has a chance of entry in the lottery. Gimme some school names!

I have thought that our local DCPS MS would be fine for years, but if it's as half-assed as the elementary, I'm doubtful. I get that I could do a lackadaisical school for this kid and tutor them myself, but I'd appreciate in middle school a setting that does what schools are supposed to do and not just settle for lack of education/lack of rigor because students around my child are just as lazy/unfocused/unready/untaught/whatever.

I'd appreciate thoughts.

Try to lottery to Basis.

Best math curriculum in a DC public school.

[Anonymous]

I had similar experiences, with both my kids, who also attended a lacksadasical DCPS. I was continually told they were on track and doing great, although there were plenty of red flags that they were behind. Third grade PARCC scores were a big wake-up call. Borderline 3/4, but still doing better than the vast majority of their classmates, who were by and large from UMC families. We yanked them from that school and started supplementing HARD. They are now in MS/HS and performing multiple grade levels ahead, and I believe they both had near-perfect math PARCC scores. So this was not an issue with my kids and their abilities. It was an issue with the teaching and school's low expectations. I recommend addressing this issue early because we had a few years where supporting them with math (mainly helping them with their outside math homework) became a part-time job for me, and resulted in them not having time for some other extra-curriculars that they would have enjoyed.

[Anonymous]

Also, if your kid has math aptitude (even if currently under-performing), AOPS/Beast/RSM will be better than Kumon or Mathnasium.

I don't have first-hand experience with Basis but I do have first-hand experience with a very well regarded Ward 3 DCPS MS. They offer tons of math opportunity for kids who test in. But they are not going to provide the support necessary for a grade-level kid to advance to a higher math track. So in other words, OP, don't expect even the best DCPS MS to "remediate" your kid. They provide the higher math tracks for kids who arrive demonstrating that they are at that level already.