Rethinking Barbie (the doll) and her positive impact

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one here who thinks people on this thread have gotten weirdly tribal about Barbie? There's a major mass-marketing push for this film, yes... but if it fails to inspire us to embrace Barbie, we're out of the circle of trust?

One of the few things I worry about more than unrealistic body standards for women is groupthink. I really hate groupthink. Why do so many of you NEED us to change our minds about Barbie. Because the movie and its marketing tell us we should?

?

Liberal women have revolted against Barbie and pink and gendered toys for decades. Isn’t that group think?

Buying your kid a Barbie or Disney princess toy has been taboo for many, many years.

Isn’t that groupthink?

The left admittedly succeeded in blacklisting such toys. And it’s all based on weird talking points. There are legit reasons why Barbie made a positive impact and for whatever reason nobody seems open to it.

Oookay. Way to prove my point about weird tribalism.

You seemingly were only focused on one side so I raised the counter.

FTR: I think it’s just baffling for anyone to assign so much power and negativity to a toy. Or everything princess.

No toy prompts body image issues. Other factors do, but the toy for whatever reason gets all the blame.

Playing princess or wearing pink doesn’t make you weak or stupid.

At least two generations decided that Barbie and princesses were evil. You have luminaries like Gloria Steinem taking aim at them directly. It’s so weird to me because I feel the anger is misplaced.

That doesn’t mean anyone needs to worship or even like Barbie or princesses. Normal people really shouldn’t have strong feelings about toys to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes a doll is just a doll.

Barbie was a very fun toy to play with. I loved her outfits and I had the cutest Barbie house and furniture. It really wasn’t more meaningful than that.

Sorry. I think you’re on the wrong website. This one is full of angst, and people that insist on finding the deepest possible meaning on things that are seemingly innocuous. You’re looking for the website with normal people.

I think the "finding the deepest possible meaning on things that are seemingly innocuous" award goes to genX director Greta Gerwig, who will be the biggest winner in this battle. She found a cultural trope to exploit and everyone is talking about it= home.run.for.her.

and probably for Mattel, which will find "deep meaning" in their pockets ! $$$$$

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the newer body-positive Barbie dolls are so ugly. I know they're good for self esteem of young girls and whatnot, but I still think they're ugly.

I think curvy Barbie is prettier than the original one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one here who thinks people on this thread have gotten weirdly tribal about Barbie? There's a major mass-marketing push for this film, yes... but if it fails to inspire us to embrace Barbie, we're out of the circle of trust?

One of the few things I worry about more than unrealistic body standards for women is groupthink. I really hate groupthink. Why do so many of you NEED us to change our minds about Barbie. Because the movie and its marketing tell us we should?

It's the social media era, PP. People tend to become unnecessarily tribal and aggressive on the internet.

No need to change your views. I loathe Barbie, the toy, but fully intend to enjoy Barbie, the movie.

Well thanks. The sociological question is interesting and I wish we could have a good-faith chat about it without the weird aggression toward posters who disagree.

I might eventually stream the movie if DH and I can't agree on anything else, but this won't be a theater film for me.

I saw the movie last night and I think it’s only enjoyable watching it as a group in a theater. People are wearing pink, some are really dressing up. It’s fun to laugh together.

I bet the movie will seem dumb streamed at home.

The sets and costumes on the big screen were amazing!

Don't worry, I am fully capable of having my own Barbie-groupie moment at home by myself. I am expecting an enjoyable "so bad it's good" sort of movie. Anything better will be a nice surprise.

The only movies I pay cinema prices for are action flicks with nice landscapes and/or large battles like Mission Impossible or Lord of the Rings. I like those on the big screen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one here who thinks people on this thread have gotten weirdly tribal about Barbie? There's a major mass-marketing push for this film, yes... but if it fails to inspire us to embrace Barbie, we're out of the circle of trust?

One of the few things I worry about more than unrealistic body standards for women is groupthink. I really hate groupthink. Why do so many of you NEED us to change our minds about Barbie. Because the movie and its marketing tell us we should?

?

Liberal women have revolted against Barbie and pink and gendered toys for decades. Isn’t that group think?

Buying your kid a Barbie or Disney princess toy has been taboo for many, many years.

Isn’t that groupthink?

The left admittedly succeeded in blacklisting such toys. And it’s all based on weird talking points. There are legit reasons why Barbie made a positive impact and for whatever reason nobody seems open to it.

Oookay. Way to prove my point about weird tribalism.

You seemingly were only focused on one side so I raised the counter.

FTR: I think it’s just baffling for anyone to assign so much power and negativity to a toy. Or everything princess.

No toy prompts body image issues. Other factors do, but the toy for whatever reason gets all the blame.

Playing princess or wearing pink doesn’t make you weak or stupid.

At least two generations decided that Barbie and princesses were evil. You have luminaries like Gloria Steinem taking aim at them directly. It’s so weird to me because I feel the anger is misplaced.

That doesn’t mean anyone needs to worship or even like Barbie or princesses. Normal people really shouldn’t have strong feelings about toys to begin with.

Well boys have been told this for eons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one here who thinks people on this thread have gotten weirdly tribal about Barbie? There's a major mass-marketing push for this film, yes... but if it fails to inspire us to embrace Barbie, we're out of the circle of trust?

One of the few things I worry about more than unrealistic body standards for women is groupthink. I really hate groupthink. Why do so many of you NEED us to change our minds about Barbie. Because the movie and its marketing tell us we should?

Not just you. It’s weird. Lots of Disney Adult vibes here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, as a short, stocky girl, I really didn't appreciate Barbie-encouraged body norms. I starved myself, but ultimately, I was still short and broad, even when bony, and Barbieness was unattainable.

I don't understand this. What is it about a plastic doll that makes you think looking like her is a good idea or attainable? Look at some of the women who come somewhat close. They look ridiculous! Boob jobs, lip fillers, cheek fillers and god knows what else. Nobody looks like that naturally.

+1 I played with Barbie a ton as a kid, but I never thought I had to look like her (thank goodness, since I don't!) Body image problems come from elsewhere (a mother, a friend, some real-life influence), not a doll you play with when you're a child (IMHO).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one here who thinks people on this thread have gotten weirdly tribal about Barbie? There's a major mass-marketing push for this film, yes... but if it fails to inspire us to embrace Barbie, we're out of the circle of trust?

One of the few things I worry about more than unrealistic body standards for women is groupthink. I really hate groupthink. Why do so many of you NEED us to change our minds about Barbie. Because the movie and its marketing tell us we should?

Not just you. It’s weird. Lots of Disney Adult vibes here.

Let’s leave Disney out of this.
- Disney Adult

[Anonymous]

We were always short on Ken dolls. I played with my sisters and cousins and they used to fight over who got the Kens. There were 2. The other Barbie’s used to have to pretend boyfriends. Our Kens weren’t Kens but celebrities instead. For instance, Michael Jackson, Michael j Fox, Ralph Macchio, the silver spoon kid. I was the youngest and always got stuck with the least popular celebrity!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one here who thinks people on this thread have gotten weirdly tribal about Barbie? There's a major mass-marketing push for this film, yes... but if it fails to inspire us to embrace Barbie, we're out of the circle of trust?

One of the few things I worry about more than unrealistic body standards for women is groupthink. I really hate groupthink. Why do so many of you NEED us to change our minds about Barbie. Because the movie and its marketing tell us we should?

It's the social media era, PP. People tend to become unnecessarily tribal and aggressive on the internet.

No need to change your views. I loathe Barbie, the toy, but fully intend to enjoy Barbie, the movie.

Well thanks. The sociological question is interesting and I wish we could have a good-faith chat about it without the weird aggression toward posters who disagree.

I might eventually stream the movie if DH and I can't agree on anything else, but this won't be a theater film for me.

I saw the movie last night and I think it’s only enjoyable watching it as a group in a theater. People are wearing pink, some are really dressing up. It’s fun to laugh together.

I bet the movie will seem dumb streamed at home.

The sets and costumes on the big screen were amazing!

Don't worry, I am fully capable of having my own Barbie-groupie moment at home by myself. I am expecting an enjoyable "so bad it's good" sort of movie. Anything better will be a nice surprise.

The only movies I pay cinema prices for are action flicks with nice landscapes and/or large battles like Mission Impossible or Lord of the Rings. I like those on the big screen.

If you appreciate landscapes on the big screen you’ll love seeing Barbieland on the big screen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We were always short on Ken dolls. I played with my sisters and cousins and they used to fight over who got the Kens. There were 2. The other Barbie’s used to have to pretend boyfriends. Our Kens weren’t Kens but celebrities instead. For instance, Michael Jackson, Michael j Fox, Ralph Macchio, the silver spoon kid. I was the youngest and always got stuck with the least popular celebrity!

We had the Indiana Jones doll who was a bit taller and buffer than Ken. Plus he had a leather jacket and a whip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, as a short, stocky girl, I really didn't appreciate Barbie-encouraged body norms. I starved myself, but ultimately, I was still short and broad, even when bony, and Barbieness was unattainable.

I don't understand this. What is it about a plastic doll that makes you think looking like her is a good idea or attainable? Look at some of the women who come somewhat close. They look ridiculous! Boob jobs, lip fillers, cheek fillers and god knows what else. Nobody looks like that naturally.

+1 I played with Barbie a ton as a kid, but I never thought I had to look like her (thank goodness, since I don't!) Body image problems come from elsewhere (a mother, a friend, some real-life influence), not a doll you play with when you're a child (IMHO).

Agree. And my 2nd wave feminist Mom (who incidentally, I agree with 90%+ of the time), actually banned Barbie for the first couple years I recall. But it never occurred to me that I should look like Barbie.* Afterall, I played with Strawberry Shortcake and cabbage patch kids too & never thought that they were anatomically correct or physically enviable.

*I also did ballet semi-seriously... and now *that* will eff with your head in terms of body image like nothing else. Not even the crappiest comments from family or random guys could compare. (And Barbie wasn't even on the radar.)

[Anonymous]

Gen Xer here and I loved my Barbies. It was such fun escapism for me. Half the fun was just getting them dressed and setting the scene for whatever storyline my friends and I were going to play. The clothes were so fun, too!

My favorite Barbie piece was the home/office pod. One side of it was her office, the other was her pink apartment. My Barbies always had "big" jobs/careers but they had fun, too--and perhaps not unsurprisingly, I grew up to have a good career of my own.

I only had 1 Ken doll so all of the Barbies wanted to date him, haha. My brother's HeMan and GI Joe men subbed in on occassion but they were too aggressive and destructive.

[Anonymous]

My mother was very anti-Barbie. We were not allowed to have any because she thought they contributed to poor body image and that Barbie was anti-intellectual. she did however allow us to read Seventeen and YM magazine to our heart's content, so not sure I understand the reasoning but I had to go to my friend's houses if I wanted to play with Barbie.
I allowed my daughter to have whatever Barbie toys she wanted. She was really into them for a little while and then grew out of them. I see no problem with Barbie. Social media I guess is the new Barbie for our generation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do we feel good about Ken being an after thought.

Because Barbie’s life didn’t revolve around him. She had an awesome life that he could join, but she was autonomous. She already had a career, the nice house with a pool, and a convertible on her own. Ken was there for fun trips to the beach, but it was Barbie’s world.

Okay but why is that important.

Why should anybody being a 2nd thought be a good thing?

You’re being willfully obtuse. Barbie was a toy that broke the “housewife/mother-in-training” mold for girls and taught them to think about what they wanted to do with their lives outside the home. Ken wasn’t a second thought because Barbie was mean to him or he was “less than;” he was a second thought because you could play Barbie without him. He was an accessory.

I think women think taking the worst part of misogyny and reversing it is empowering and I think it’s wrong.

Why not say Grace was an afterthought or accessory or a second thought?

Or Midge or Nikki…?

I don’t know who they are, but if the people you’ve named are Barbie’s friends, then yes, they’re accessories and supporting characters as well. It’s a Barbie-centered universe.

So why is Ken being paid the same as Barbie, if Ken is an “accessory “?

This thread is about the toy. The movie is it’s own phenomenon.