Why so many homophobic people in 2023?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Define “homophobic.” I have no problem with anyone who is gay. Live your life. Does not mean I want the lifestyle shoved in my face constantly. We went from tolerate to you must celebrate (see controversy over recent NHL and MLB players not wearing Pride flags).

Heteronormative relationships have been shoved in everyone’s face for eons. We wouldn’t need Pride if LGBTQIA folks were treated equally.

Well the reason that heteronormative relationships are in our faces is because…well…IT’S THE NORM.

Exactly. Reminds me of Norm MacDonald’s line about the term “cisgendered” had to be invented so that normal people could feel marginalized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one cared for years that there was PRIDE items in stores or events. But the push now is too much too hard on the trans issue for youth. Most don’t care about adults transitioning except celebrating biological men for
- international women’s day,
- women’s drama awards
- women’s sporting events

I an old enough to realize I didn’t have to be a feminist, because women before me pushed limits for our gender. But, I do remember that my grandparents and even parents generation held limited capabilities for women. You rarely hear about biological women taking male awards. This push to include men in relatively new lanes for women, feels misogynistic.

The bathroom issue also feels wrong. I realize stalls are closed. But when I send my daughters anywhere, to include bathrooms, always in my head is that they are more vulnerable than my son. And now we allow males on that space because that is where they want to be. If we lived in a utopian society, this may be ok, but we don’t. Therefore, their safety and comfort matter more to me.

Schools keeping these issues a secret and seemingly pushing the issue of gender dysphoria betrays trust in public schools. This should not be supported. Public schools should stick to academics as their primary role and not push social agendas. If they aren’t going to do this, we should allow school choice and the money should follow the child. I would not advocate for this outside of the political push that is now part of public school. It won’t help me as my kids will all be out of K-12 very soon.

I can recognize that this can seem unfair to people who want to try being a women some may go beyond just trying it short term,, but I will stand up for those born a female to maintain the lanes that were hard won a few short generations ago.

I worked in hospice in the early 90s. I spent a lot of time at the bedside of late stage AIDS patients. Then and today I continue to support gay rights. I will also treat trans people with respect in my day to day interactions. But the lists above is a bridge too far and puts women, as we have been throughout most of history, behind men again. If I have to choose- I’ll choose biological women’s’ rights.

You’re buying in to right wing propaganda. Gender affirming care for children is not surgery. It’s allowing them to dress how they want to and later on puberty blockers. At school it’s allowing a child to change their name and pronouns. All of this is super important for their mental health. Men aren’t becoming women on a whim to go into bathrooms and compete in sporting events. Being trans comes with a lot of danger.

Also on the bathrooms, I went to college where all of our bathrooms were coed. I truly wish that were the case everywhere.

Oh and also, trans men exist too. This diatribe tends to focus on just trans women but trans men look far more masculine than trans women and they are now being forced into the women’s bathroom. If they have to use the women’s bathroom any male presenting person can now walk in and claim to be a trans man.

PP is pushing right-wing propaganda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I respect that, I do. But the right is using the in your face flamboyant folks to mobilize hatred against the LGBT community. This is a fact. I hate followed Libs of TikTok and I see the propaganda. And it puts gay marriage and gay rights in danger.

Trans woman from up thread here (the only one on DCUM?). I agree with the cisgender lesbian. I know people like this. They're good people. They are a minority of the minority and just because I'm a boring middle class white trans woman that's monogamous that doesn't mean that other people don't deserve rights to be themselves. I know genderqueer trans people that are poly. One is a very good friend of mine. They're an amazing person. That being said, I know a lot of trans people and most are mono. I think that the right is just really good at finding something to outrage their base and then using it in a way that justifies bigotry towards an entire group. When you find some trans woman doing something cringe or outright illegal then come to DCUM, inevitably someone is calling me out all trans women saying we do crime. Sometimes people literally call me out and say I'm doing crimes. I've never committed a crime in my life. I'm a rules follower and super boring.

[Anonymous]

I can only speak for myself, but I imagine a lot of Gen X parents of tweens and teens will agree that performative aspect ultimately feels insincere, and that the younger generation has their heads way too far up the internet. When your child comes out to you in tears, defining their sexuality in terms you have to go look up on the internet, with words that didn’t even exist when we were coming of age, you’ll have to excuse us if it takes a minute to get on board. When said child refers to multiple friends with pronouns that don’t correspond to how we knew those friends in elementary school, nor to how we were taught to use language in general for the majority of our lives, you’ll have to excuse us if it takes a few more minutes. Of course we can do nothing but smile and nod and go along the best we can, because to express any surprise or doubt or questioning gets you labeled the bad guy and might send them off to suspicious corners of the internet looking for a dopamine hit. I really and truly support my kids in whoever they choose to be and/or fall in love with—it’s their lives—but I’d be lying if I said a portion of young people would be coming to some conclusions without internet groupthink.

[Anonymous]

Many people don't care about adults living their lives but pause when this is extended to innocent children. My friend went to enroll at our public elementary (Chicago area) and the third question after name and date of birth was gender identity with options for non binary etc. Most people feel non binary is an imaginary condition and will be polite to adults who want to use it but don't believe children come up with it without adult influence. The fourth question was sexual orientation. An elementary age child does not have a sexual orientation. I have no idea what my kids sexual orientations will be. What possible reason could the school have for asking this? The answer is that it is mandated by the state. Why???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can only speak for myself, but I imagine a lot of Gen X parents of tweens and teens will agree that performative aspect ultimately feels insincere, and that the younger generation has their heads way too far up the internet. When your child comes out to you in tears, defining their sexuality in terms you have to go look up on the internet, with words that didn’t even exist when we were coming of age, you’ll have to excuse us if it takes a minute to get on board. When said child refers to multiple friends with pronouns that don’t correspond to how we knew those friends in elementary school, nor to how we were taught to use language in general for the majority of our lives, you’ll have to excuse us if it takes a few more minutes. Of course we can do nothing but smile and nod and go along the best we can, because to express any surprise or doubt or questioning gets you labeled the bad guy and might send them off to suspicious corners of the internet looking for a dopamine hit. I really and truly support my kids in whoever they choose to be and/or fall in love with—it’s their lives—but I’d be lying if I said a portion of young people would be coming to some conclusions without internet groupthink.

Sounds like a you problem.

-genX parent to teens with many peers who are LGBTQ+

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one cared for years that there was PRIDE items in stores or events. But the push now is too much too hard on the trans issue for youth. Most don’t care about adults transitioning except celebrating biological men for
- international women’s day,
- women’s drama awards
- women’s sporting events

I an old enough to realize I didn’t have to be a feminist, because women before me pushed limits for our gender. But, I do remember that my grandparents and even parents generation held limited capabilities for women. You rarely hear about biological women taking male awards. This push to include men in relatively new lanes for women, feels misogynistic.

The bathroom issue also feels wrong. I realize stalls are closed. But when I send my daughters anywhere, to include bathrooms, always in my head is that they are more vulnerable than my son. And now we allow males on that space because that is where they want to be. If we lived in a utopian society, this may be ok, but we don’t. Therefore, their safety and comfort matter more to me.

Schools keeping these issues a secret and seemingly pushing the issue of gender dysphoria betrays trust in public schools. This should not be supported. Public schools should stick to academics as their primary role and not push social agendas. If they aren’t going to do this, we should allow school choice and the money should follow the child. I would not advocate for this outside of the political push that is now part of public school. It won’t help me as my kids will all be out of K-12 very soon.

I can recognize that this can seem unfair to people who want to try being a women some may go beyond just trying it short term,, but I will stand up for those born a female to maintain the lanes that were hard won a few short generations ago.

I worked in hospice in the early 90s. I spent a lot of time at the bedside of late stage AIDS patients. Then and today I continue to support gay rights. I will also treat trans people with respect in my day to day interactions. But the lists above is a bridge too far and puts women, as we have been throughout most of history, behind men again. If I have to choose- I’ll choose biological women’s’ rights.

Yes. I feel this.

it’s the ultimate patriarchy. Men taking over women’s issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one cared for years that there was PRIDE items in stores or events. But the push now is too much too hard on the trans issue for youth. Most don’t care about adults transitioning except celebrating biological men for
- international women’s day,
- women’s drama awards
- women’s sporting events

I an old enough to realize I didn’t have to be a feminist, because women before me pushed limits for our gender. But, I do remember that my grandparents and even parents generation held limited capabilities for women. You rarely hear about biological women taking male awards. This push to include men in relatively new lanes for women, feels misogynistic.

The bathroom issue also feels wrong. I realize stalls are closed. But when I send my daughters anywhere, to include bathrooms, always in my head is that they are more vulnerable than my son. And now we allow males on that space because that is where they want to be. If we lived in a utopian society, this may be ok, but we don’t. Therefore, their safety and comfort matter more to me.

Schools keeping these issues a secret and seemingly pushing the issue of gender dysphoria betrays trust in public schools. This should not be supported. Public schools should stick to academics as their primary role and not push social agendas. If they aren’t going to do this, we should allow school choice and the money should follow the child. I would not advocate for this outside of the political push that is now part of public school. It won’t help me as my kids will all be out of K-12 very soon.

I can recognize that this can seem unfair to people who want to try being a women some may go beyond just trying it short term,, but I will stand up for those born a female to maintain the lanes that were hard won a few short generations ago.

I worked in hospice in the early 90s. I spent a lot of time at the bedside of late stage AIDS patients. Then and today I continue to support gay rights. I will also treat trans people with respect in my day to day interactions. But the lists above is a bridge too far and puts women, as we have been throughout most of history, behind men again. If I have to choose- I’ll choose biological women’s’ rights.

Yes. I feel this.

it’s the ultimate patriarchy. Men taking over women’s issues.

More bigots misgendering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an extremely boring lesbian woman with kids who fits all the respectability politics norms: transgendered, in-your-face out and flamboyant folks, poly people, and those who don’t fit neatly into boxes or houses with white picket fences have been members and mainstays of gay liberation and the lgbtq+ movement since it started. Trying to kick them out now that I have my rights would be vile and I will continue to support and advocate for their rights as they did for mine.

As a boring cis woman with a gay son, I mostly agree with you. However, I think what people are saying when they talk about the trans rights movement alienating people is that the trans rights activists take such a hard line there now seems to be only one acceptable view, which is to accept exactly what they are saying, or else you are transphobic or homophobic. Using books as an example, I'm not in favor of banning books but having read some of the books that parents are concerned about, I agree that they are very graphic and question whether, for example, younger middle school kids should have access to them, at least without parental consent. This is in no way a homophobic or transphobic take because I would feel the same way if the books depicted heterosexual relationships.

In addition, as a mother, I have trouble supporting a movement that uses blackmail, exaggeration, and threats to promote its agenda. "Give us everything we are asking for or else we will die by suicide" feels dangerously aggressive and downright unhealthy. Trans people need love and acceptance, and these extreme voices do nothing to promote those values among individuals who aren't fully onboard with the cause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Define “homophobic.” I have no problem with anyone who is gay. Live your life. Does not mean I want the lifestyle shoved in my face constantly. We went from tolerate to you must celebrate (see controversy over recent NHL and MLB players not wearing Pride flags).

Heteronormative relationships have been shoved in everyone’s face for eons. We wouldn’t need Pride if LGBTQIA folks were treated equally.

Exactly. And when people say trans activists ruin it all for all the gays and others, it reads as yay, now I can blame trans people for not linking gays and get them back in the closet too.

It’s like when a black kid steals candy at a store, and instead of being like oh no, my kid stole some gum at that age too, it’s like, let’s burn some t’s on their yard.

No, it’s not exactly the same. But also, it’s not really that different.

That's really insightful. It opens up a permission structure to feel and express the horribly bigotry that before you felt you had to constrain.

The politics of the last decade have also opened up that permission structure. As society as a whole has grown more tolerant, the right wing has gotten more hysterical in trying to drum up the culture wars - I guess they don't really offer anything other than culture wars now.

On top of that, it does seem like - as horrible as it is - that it's regular course of business for there to be backlash, as minority groups gain rights and acceptance. It gets ugly before it gets better. And the ugly can always come back - which is why it's important for there to be legal rights, not just social acceptance.

[Anonymous]

No homophobia. What you're seeing is a blacklash against the alphabet soup after / at "T" in LGBT. Many gay and lesbian people feel the same. There are a few elements: (1) transwomen misogynists who are enlisting young liberal girls to self-loath, e.g. Dylan Mulvaney, Lia Thomas, all the transwomen who show up to shout down and intimidate women in the UK and here; (2) the social contagion of young teen girls "coming out" as NB or trans, and then making life-altering medical decisions they will regret; (3) the medical establishment's idiotic embrace of gender-affirming care (i.e., double mastectomies at age 16); (4) corporations and media mindlessly amplifying anything queer, constantly, without question, e.g. Bud Light, (5) the bad faith coverage of inappropriate sexual material being pushed on kids at an early age being framed as "book banning". All of this has gone way too far, and what you're seeing now are people pushing back. It's not "phobic" to call for moderation. It's democracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many people don't care about adults living their lives but pause when this is extended to innocent children. My friend went to enroll at our public elementary (Chicago area) and the third question after name and date of birth was gender identity with options for non binary etc. Most people feel non binary is an imaginary condition and will be polite to adults who want to use it but don't believe children come up with it without adult influence. The fourth question was sexual orientation. An elementary age child does not have a sexual orientation. I have no idea what my kids sexual orientations will be. What possible reason could the school have for asking this? The answer is that it is mandated by the state. Why???

There's someone in this very thread claiming that she doesn't want trans women using the women's bathroom. That's transphobic in all senses. Even if you decide to (incorrectly) define it as fear of trans people. She's literally afraid of trans women. She's also bigoted against trans adults. So yes, people do care. The push for stopping children from transitioning is not because they just care about the kids. It's just because they feel like it's the low hanging fruit. An easier target than going after adults who have bodily autonomy and trying to discriminate against them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can only speak for myself, but I imagine a lot of Gen X parents of tweens and teens will agree that performative aspect ultimately feels insincere, and that the younger generation has their heads way too far up the internet. When your child comes out to you in tears, defining their sexuality in terms you have to go look up on the internet, with words that didn’t even exist when we were coming of age, you’ll have to excuse us if it takes a minute to get on board. When said child refers to multiple friends with pronouns that don’t correspond to how we knew those friends in elementary school, nor to how we were taught to use language in general for the majority of our lives, you’ll have to excuse us if it takes a few more minutes. Of course we can do nothing but smile and nod and go along the best we can, because to express any surprise or doubt or questioning gets you labeled the bad guy and might send them off to suspicious corners of the internet looking for a dopamine hit. I really and truly support my kids in whoever they choose to be and/or fall in love with—it’s their lives—but I’d be lying if I said a portion of young people would be coming to some conclusions without internet groupthink.

I agree with this, also Gen X. However, I also think a lot of this is because in progressive areas, kids are told "we love you no matter what, we are fine with you being gay, straight, bi, trans, gender queer -- whatever make you happy." They still want to rebel against the olds, so they say "ok, well I'm in a triad with Paull from down the street (you have to pronounce both ells or you're deadnaming him, he still uses male pronouns but Paull is his queer name so catch up) and the person you once knew as Lauren but who now goes as the Chinese character for electricity and rejects pronouns altogether" just to see how we'll respond. And if you make a joke about the Artist Formerly Known as Prince or suggest that it's inappropriate for a white person to take a Chinese character as their adopted name, you are being intolerant.

Kids are gonna provoke, it's what they do. I just smile and say "ok, cool, we'll be having a looooooong conversation about safe sex in polyamorous relationships, with a power point presentation after dinner tonight, and Paul and the Chinese character for electricity need to come over for dinner this weekend so we can get to know them because just because you are in a queer polyamorous relationship doesn't mean I don't need to vet your friends like I always have." If it's real it will stick and we'll make the adjustment and if it's just needless provocation they will get bored quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Define “homophobic.” I have no problem with anyone who is gay. Live your life. Does not mean I want the lifestyle shoved in my face constantly. We went from tolerate to you must celebrate (see controversy over recent NHL and MLB players not wearing Pride flags).

Heteronormative relationships have been shoved in everyone’s face for eons. We wouldn’t need Pride if LGBTQIA folks were treated equally.

Exactly. And when people say trans activists ruin it all for all the gays and others, it reads as yay, now I can blame trans people for not linking gays and get them back in the closet too.

It’s like when a black kid steals candy at a store, and instead of being like oh no, my kid stole some gum at that age too, it’s like, let’s burn some t’s on their yard.

No, it’s not exactly the same. But also, it’s not really that different.

That's really insightful. It opens up a permission structure to feel and express the horribly bigotry that before you felt you had to constrain.

The politics of the last decade have also opened up that permission structure. As society as a whole has grown more tolerant, the right wing has gotten more hysterical in trying to drum up the culture wars - I guess they don't really offer anything other than culture wars now.

On top of that, it does seem like - as horrible as it is - that it's regular course of business for there to be backlash, as minority groups gain rights and acceptance. It gets ugly before it gets better. And the ugly can always come back - which is why it's important for there to be legal rights, not just social acceptance.

Bigots (and racists & misogynists) have been emboldened over the last several years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can only speak for myself, but I imagine a lot of Gen X parents of tweens and teens will agree that performative aspect ultimately feels insincere, and that the younger generation has their heads way too far up the internet. When your child comes out to you in tears, defining their sexuality in terms you have to go look up on the internet, with words that didn’t even exist when we were coming of age, you’ll have to excuse us if it takes a minute to get on board. When said child refers to multiple friends with pronouns that don’t correspond to how we knew those friends in elementary school, nor to how we were taught to use language in general for the majority of our lives, you’ll have to excuse us if it takes a few more minutes. Of course we can do nothing but smile and nod and go along the best we can, because to express any surprise or doubt or questioning gets you labeled the bad guy and might send them off to suspicious corners of the internet looking for a dopamine hit. I really and truly support my kids in whoever they choose to be and/or fall in love with—it’s their lives—but I’d be lying if I said a portion of young people would be coming to some conclusions without internet groupthink.

I agree with this, also Gen X. However, I also think a lot of this is because in progressive areas, kids are told "we love you no matter what, we are fine with you being gay, straight, bi, trans, gender queer -- whatever make you happy." They still want to rebel against the olds, so they say "ok, well I'm in a triad with Paull from down the street (you have to pronounce both ells or you're deadnaming him, he still uses male pronouns but Paull is his queer name so catch up) and the person you once knew as Lauren but who now goes as the Chinese character for electricity and rejects pronouns altogether" just to see how we'll respond. And if you make a joke about the Artist Formerly Known as Prince or suggest that it's inappropriate for a white person to take a Chinese character as their adopted name, you are being intolerant.

Kids are gonna provoke, it's what they do. I just smile and say "ok, cool, we'll be having a looooooong conversation about safe sex in polyamorous relationships, with a power point presentation after dinner tonight, and Paul and the Chinese character for electricity need to come over for dinner this weekend so we can get to know them because just because you are in a queer polyamorous relationship doesn't mean I don't need to vet your friends like I always have." If it's real it will stick and we'll make the adjustment and if it's just needless provocation they will get bored quickly.

Stop trying to center this around parents. It's not about you.