Tea Party- please explain

[Anonymous]

Here is an explanation without irony:

[Anonymous]

"You preach your tolerance, but lecture me. Is there no end to your own hypocrisy?". Niiice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a co-opting T-shirt. It's like saying 'I'm here, I'm queer!" --using the language of your critics. Except in their case they're using that language, taking the mindless charge of their critics "YER ALL RACISTS", to make the opposite point: describing their actual, non-racist platform. They're having fun/making fun and it's getting your goat. Hilarious.

Oh, I get the point that is being made. They are just doing a piss poor job making it. And do they REALLY want to co-opt the term racist as a good thing??? Racism is bad. Being "queer" is not, so the analogy doesn't hold. Why don't they respond to the accusations of racism instead of just being snide about it and lending fodder to the argument that they are racists, something they seem to be proudly proclaiming by what is written across their chests?

[Anonymous]

Cute video. And she's got a good point.

But, please tell me, where have I dismissed or ignore the Tea Party as not relevant or not mattering? I understand the original, core message that they've brought it, recognizing it's libertarian leanings, and acknowledged the value it has. I also mentioned how the Tea Party also has a pretty strong thread of racism in it. Maybe it's at the fringe, as some contend, maybe it's moved more towards the middle. Maybe racial animus has been deliberately used to garner support, maybe not.

The fact is, can you deny that there is a strong racist element prominent within the tea party? I find that impossible, given the evidence we've offered showing the racism. Does that make all tea partiers racist? No. Does it mean you can't hold some of their beliefs without being racist? Nope. But do those two facts mean we should stick our heads in the sand and ignore the very dangerous racist strand that has corrupted the party? Hell no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a co-opting T-shirt. It's like saying 'I'm here, I'm queer!" --using the language of your critics. Except in their case they're using that language, taking the mindless charge of their critics "YER ALL RACISTS", to make the opposite point: describing their actual, non-racist platform. They're having fun/making fun and it's getting your goat. Hilarious.

Oh, I get the point that is being made. They are just doing a piss poor job making it. And do they REALLY want to co-opt the term racist as a good thing??? Racism is bad. Being "queer" is not, so the analogy doesn't hold. Why don't they respond to the accusations of racism instead of just being snide about it and lending fodder to the argument that they are racists, something they seem to be proudly proclaiming by what is written across their chests?

UM--that's why I said they are making the opposite point. Not exactly the same as "We're here we're queer" but illustrative. If you don't get it you don't get it. I have zero issues with the shirt, or should I say as many issues with the shirt as with the mindless charge "YER ALL RACISTS". I've seen more offensive satire in 18th century french political cartoons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a co-opting T-shirt. It's like saying 'I'm here, I'm queer!" --using the language of your critics. Except in their case they're using that language, taking the mindless charge of their critics "YER ALL RACISTS", to make the opposite point: describing their actual, non-racist platform. They're having fun/making fun and it's getting your goat. Hilarious.

Oh, I get the point that is being made. They are just doing a piss poor job making it. And do they REALLY want to co-opt the term racist as a good thing??? Racism is bad. Being "queer" is not, so the analogy doesn't hold. Why don't they respond to the accusations of racism instead of just being snide about it and lending fodder to the argument that they are racists, something they seem to be proudly proclaiming by what is written across their chests?

UM--that's why I said they are making the opposite point. Not exactly the same as "We're here we're queer" but illustrative. If you don't get it you don't get it. I have zero issues with the shirt, or should I say as many issues with the shirt as with the mindless charge "YER ALL RACISTS". I've seen more offensive satire in 18th century french political cartoons.

But when an accusation is levied against you, to simply say, "Yea, you're right!" isn't really much of a response, irony or not. If the accusation was completely baseless, it would make sense. If I accused you of secretly being a Martian, you could reasonably roll your eyes and say, "Yea, I'm a Martian." But if there is evidence of racism in the party and you are called on it, how does say, "Yep, I'm a racist" amount to much of a defense? It doesn't. Responding to evidence with irony is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and singing, "I can't hear you!"

[Anonymous]

No, YOU get to respond that way. Whomever made that T is choosing to respond another way. We don't live in Brave New World (yet).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, YOU get to respond that way. Whomever made that T is choosing to respond another way. We don't live in Brave New World (yet).

It does nothing to dispel the accusation of racism. If I have evidence that someone is a racist, confront them with that evidence, and they say, "Yep, I'm a racist," how have they countered that argument? Maybe they don't feel they need to, which is fine. But absent a rebuttal, they're not going to change anyone's minds. And if the group as a whole really cared about distancing themselves from the "radical fringe", wouldn't they take an opportunity to say, "Ya know, we know where that comes from, but here is why we are not racist and here is why we don't associate with those folks who hold those believes." That would go a HELL of a lot further than this little charade.

So, yea, they can respond all they want. But it's certainly not going to silence the critics.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps the designers/wearers of the shirt don't feel an obligation to engage it in the sober and earnest way that YOU wish? If someone repeatedly called you a sexist with no foundation would you feel the need to seriously respond to all of their charges, or bat them away like flies? There are lots of ways to respond to a charge you disagree with and I am sure there are those who would earnestly defend themselves; the designers of this T-shirt are clearly appealing to sarcasm which as far as I know is not unheard of in human society.

[Anonymous]

And by the way--the video posted above was a response without irony. The Tea Party is a wide-spread group of people loosely conglomerated. Why would you expect ONE response to the spurious accusation that the majority of Tea Partiers are racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And by the way--the video posted above was a response without irony. The Tea Party is a wide-spread group of people loosely conglomerated. Why would you expect ONE response to the spurious accusation that the majority of Tea Partiers are racist?

FWIW, I posted that video and am a liberal who found it infuriating that the singer implies that the rest of us are not America. But as PP indicates, it seemed responsive to OP, and I thought it should speak for itself without my editorializing.

[Anonymous]

Both Tea Party supporters and opponents can tend to the smug and sanctimonious - I agree. That is a far cry from the vitriol that is the racism at the fringes OR the outstanding claims that most Tea Party supporters are modern KKK. Have not seen evidence of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps the designers/wearers of the shirt don't feel an obligation to engage it in the sober and earnest way that YOU wish? If someone repeatedly called you a sexist with no foundation would you feel the need to seriously respond to all of their charges, or bat them away like flies? There are lots of ways to respond to a charge you disagree with and I am sure there are those who would earnestly defend themselves; the designers of this T-shirt are clearly appealing to sarcasm which as far as I know is not unheard of in human society.

The key phrase in there is "NO FOUNDATION". Is there really no foundation for making accusations of racism being prevalent within the Tea Party? If you think that, you've simply been ignoring the conversation.

So, yea, they can be flippant with their response. But it's not going to address the issue. And maybe they're okay with that. Good for them. For me personally, if I wasn't a racist and was accused of being so, I would defend myself. And if a group I aligned with had others aligned with it who promoted racism, if I was truly sincere about the beliefs that group held and felt that the racist aspects were completely unrelated, I would take seriously the efforts to demonstrate that. But that's just me. I'm actually bothered by the idea that I might be or appear to be a racist. These folks? Apparently not so much. And given that the accusations are damaging the party's reputation to the point of losing some credibility, don't you think it's important they combat that, if they REALLY care about the message?

Nah, let's just be snide and wear snarky t-shirts that claim we're racists and then hide behind, "Well, see, it's IRONIC!" Let's not ACTUALLY do anything to promote our cause and instead just further piss people off.

Again, I'm not saying they CAN'T do this, only that they SHOULDN'T if they want to be taken seriously. I'm starting to think they really don't want to be though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps the designers/wearers of the shirt don't feel an obligation to engage it in the sober and earnest way that YOU wish? If someone repeatedly called you a sexist with no foundation would you feel the need to seriously respond to all of their charges, or bat them away like flies? There are lots of ways to respond to a charge you disagree with and I am sure there are those who would earnestly defend themselves; the designers of this T-shirt are clearly appealing to sarcasm which as far as I know is not unheard of in human society.

The key phrase in there is "NO FOUNDATION". Is there really no foundation for making accusations of racism being prevalent within the Tea Party? If you think that, you've simply been ignoring the conversation.

So, yea, they can be flippant with their response. But it's not going to address the issue. And maybe they're okay with that. Good for them. For me personally, if I wasn't a racist and was accused of being so, I would defend myself. And if a group I aligned with had others aligned with it who promoted racism, if I was truly sincere about the beliefs that group held and felt that the racist aspects were completely unrelated, I would take seriously the efforts to demonstrate that. But that's just me. I'm actually bothered by the idea that I might be or appear to be a racist. These folks? Apparently not so much. And given that the accusations are damaging the party's reputation to the point of losing some credibility, don't you think it's important they combat that, if they REALLY care about the message?

Nah, let's just be snide and wear snarky t-shirts that claim we're racists and then hide behind, "Well, see, it's IRONIC!" Let's not ACTUALLY do anything to promote our cause and instead just further piss people off.

Again, I'm not saying they CAN'T do this, only that they SHOULDN'T if they want to be taken seriously. I'm starting to think they really don't want to be though.

I agree there is racism on the fringes of the party. You say PREVALENT. Really? When you say things like that you are maligning people like this 14 year old kid who was on TV this morning talking about 'freedom, peace and central banking'. You may not agree with his point of view, but why shouldn't he share it instead of spending time defending baseless charges of racism? http://dailycaller.com/2010/07/08/meet-devon-minnema-a-14-year-old-tea-party-organizer/Is this 14 year old kid who was on TV
He should be taken seriously b/cause he is presenting his ideas in a serious way. You are the one losing credibility by refusing to listen to the PREVALENT views and instead obsessing over charges of racism. I find the fact that people are not running shrieking over charges of racism to be refreshing. It's great to seeing people laughing off baseless charges instead of wasting their breath defending themselves against something they are not privy to.

[Anonymous]

We can quibble over how "prevalent" these views are. The fact is, they are there and people like the ones selling the t-shirts are ultimately undermining the true message of the Tea Party.

I take seriously people who present themselves seriously. I disregard those who acts like fools. A lot of people in the tea party act like fools. Even more do not and those are the ones I'm more than happy to engage with. The problem arises when the supposed non-fools tacitly defend the fools and/or act as if their blatant foolishness is not a big deal. It then becomes hard to sort through who is serious and who is not.

If I were to ask a tea partier about the racist element within the party and he said, "Meh. Well, I'M not a racist," what has he really said?

You also seem to conflate my issues with racism in the party to my issues with the party as a whole. I don't dismiss the whole party. Far from it. I dismiss the racist elements and those who embrace, accept, or protect the racist elements. I am happy to discourse with those who have legitimate view points. It is why I am so active in the libetartian movement and became interested in the tea party in the first place, before I saw how the group was ultimately representing itself.