Is life really better in Scandinavian countries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is nice to not have to worry about health care and have work - life balance. When you are sick, you can see a doctor and stay home until you are better. When your kid is sick, you can take off work and stay home. If you end up unemployed for a while, you still have health care. It’s okay to take three weeks off to travel to Thailand or spend summer at the lake house. Enjoying nature is a way of life and relaxation a priority. Now you may live in a smaller apartment or house, and if you are a 1%er your life would probably be more luxurious in the US, but for the average middle class family, life is much more relaxed in Scandinavia (and some other European countries).

The average middle class American can absolutely take sick leave and doesn’t have to worry about health care. 60 percent of Americans have healthcare through their employer and this is excluding kids, retirees etc. They also have vacation.

They cannot take 3 weeks off to travel but I only have one friend in a Scandinavian country who can do this and it’s because she is a HS teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is nice to not have to worry about health care and have work - life balance. When you are sick, you can see a doctor and stay home until you are better. When your kid is sick, you can take off work and stay home. If you end up unemployed for a while, you still have health care. It’s okay to take three weeks off to travel to Thailand or spend summer at the lake house. Enjoying nature is a way of life and relaxation a priority. Now you may live in a smaller apartment or house, and if you are a 1%er your life would probably be more luxurious in the US, but for the average middle class family, life is much more relaxed in Scandinavia (and some other European countries).

This post makes me chuckle. This is what most Northern Europeans think about America. I receive 5 weeks (plus holidays) of vacation and it’s like they don’t even believe me. They can’t understand it doesn’t come from the government or how I receive something if it isn’t mandated. They also seem to question if I can go to the doctor even though when they go to the doctor almost all of the medical equipment is from the US. Same for many of the prescription drugs and medical devices.

I’m far from wealthy and everyone I know goes to the doctor, stays home when they are sick and stays home from work with a sick child. How would America be the power house that it is if we couldn’t even see the doctor when we are sick? That doesn’t make any sense. I’m from a flyover city and I don’t know anyone with a job who doesn’t have employer based health insurance or doesn’t have sick leave. Yes, there are people in America that don’t but a large percentage of them are not even US citizens.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s a personality thing: I want all the opportunities and all the responsibilities. Others don’t. I don’t want to live in a place where everything is done for me but there is a cap on what I can do/achieve. Others may be ok with it.

I think that’s fair. My personality is much more comfortable with a “cap.” I’m so over hyper capitalism. If you’re like me, it’s all about figuring out ways to resist.

How about you do what you need to do to live the way you want and let others do the same. I don’t want to get in your way and you shouldn’t get in mine.

+1. Then be over hypercapitalism. I live a very not flashy life here. I’m not relying on others to do as I’m doing in order to be comfortable with my own life choices. I don’t need to engage in the meaningless semantics of “resisting”; I am also not imposing my lifestyle on others.

Good for you but don’t tell anyone what to be over or under. Just do your thing.

Um, I think that was the PP’s point: you can have your thing without imposing it on others.

Reading comprehension goes a long way.

First thing PP said was a directive: “then be over hyper capitalism.” Isn’t that telling someone else what to do in any plain reading? How is that a reading comprehension issue on anyone’s part but yours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a personality thing: I want all the opportunities and all the responsibilities. Others don’t. I don’t want to live in a place where everything is done for me but there is a cap on what I can do/achieve. Others may be ok with it.

I think that’s fair. My personality is much more comfortable with a “cap.” I’m so over hyper capitalism. If you’re like me, it’s all about figuring out ways to resist.

How about you do what you need to do to live the way you want and let others do the same. I don’t want to get in your way and you shouldn’t get in mine.

+1. Then be over hypercapitalism. I live a very not flashy life here. I’m not relying on others to do as I’m doing in order to be comfortable with my own life choices. I don’t need to engage in the meaningless semantics of “resisting”; I am also not imposing my lifestyle on others.

Good for you but don’t tell anyone what to be over or under. Just do your thing.

Um, I think that was the PP’s point: you can have your thing without imposing it on others.

Reading comprehension goes a long way.

First thing PP said was a directive: “then be over hyper capitalism.” Isn’t that telling someone else what to do in any plain reading? How is that a reading comprehension issue on anyone’s part but yours?

The poster being referred to was someone who felt the need to resist…resist what? Live your life. What exactly do you need to resist? You seem to be very invested in opposing someone who is saying you can live the life you want within the current system. No one is making you splurge at Target or live in your McMansion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a personality thing: I want all the opportunities and all the responsibilities. Others don’t. I don’t want to live in a place where everything is done for me but there is a cap on what I can do/achieve. Others may be ok with it.

I think that’s fair. My personality is much more comfortable with a “cap.” I’m so over hyper capitalism. If you’re like me, it’s all about figuring out ways to resist.

How about you do what you need to do to live the way you want and let others do the same. I don’t want to get in your way and you shouldn’t get in mine.

+1. Then be over hypercapitalism. I live a very not flashy life here. I’m not relying on others to do as I’m doing in order to be comfortable with my own life choices. I don’t need to engage in the meaningless semantics of “resisting”; I am also not imposing my lifestyle on others.

Good for you but don’t tell anyone what to be over or under. Just do your thing.

Um, I think that was the PP’s point: you can have your thing without imposing it on others.

Reading comprehension goes a long way.

First thing PP said was a directive: “then be over hyper capitalism.” Isn’t that telling someone else what to do in any plain reading? How is that a reading comprehension issue on anyone’s part but yours?

The poster being referred to was someone who felt the need to resist…resist what? Live your life. What exactly do you need to resist? You seem to be very invested in opposing someone who is saying you can live the life you want within the current system. No one is making you splurge at Target or live in your McMansion.

I’m the PP. The system affects us all in so many ways. I can’t opt out of the loops I must navigate to use my health insurance for instance. And we’ve all been sick so multiple expenses and paperwork to deal with. However I can opt out of consumerism to a large degree. But thanks for the typical individualistic advice. It’s not like Americans have ever heard that line before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swedish people won’t feed your child if s/he is over for a playdate though

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/02/world/europe/sweden-feeding-guests-dinner.html

Wow! I had no idea this was a thing. Seems kinda weird.
Food is about sharing and caring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Worked in a Scandinavian country for many years and the poster who noted the homogeneity of the population is spot on. There is little discussion on how racist and unwelcoming they are to immigrants or non-white people. It’s not even subtle.

People criticize American individualism but most Americans would be shocked to live in a Scandinavian country and be expected to be the same religion (not religious), dress the same, lifestyle the same, food the same, I could go on….you must conform.

I’m so glad to be American and do whatever I want within reason. I can be who I want to be.

Even a month ago someone in Norway was convinced of hate crimes by posting something offensive on the internet. Can you imagine posting something hateful on Facebook and being sent to jail?

That would be awesome. Thinning the heard of a holes.

[Anonymous]

There is no home schooling in these countries.

Children are trained to suppress their individuality. Children are tracked from a very young age. In the US, this would essentially mean segregation. Nordic countries are 95-98.5% white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is nice to not have to worry about health care and have work - life balance. When you are sick, you can see a doctor and stay home until you are better. When your kid is sick, you can take off work and stay home. If you end up unemployed for a while, you still have health care. It’s okay to take three weeks off to travel to Thailand or spend summer at the lake house. Enjoying nature is a way of life and relaxation a priority. Now you may live in a smaller apartment or house, and if you are a 1%er your life would probably be more luxurious in the US, but for the average middle class family, life is much more relaxed in Scandinavia (and some other European countries).

This post makes me chuckle. This is what most Northern Europeans think about America. I receive 5 weeks (plus holidays) of vacation and it’s like they don’t even believe me. They can’t understand it doesn’t come from the government or how I receive something if it isn’t mandated. They also seem to question if I can go to the doctor even though when they go to the doctor almost all of the medical equipment is from the US. Same for many of the prescription drugs and medical devices.

I’m far from wealthy and everyone I know goes to the doctor, stays home when they are sick and stays home from work with a sick child. How would America be the power house that it is if we couldn’t even see the doctor when we are sick? That doesn’t make any sense. I’m from a flyover city and I don’t know anyone with a job who doesn’t have employer based health insurance or doesn’t have sick leave. Yes, there are people in America that don’t but a large percentage of them are not even US citizens.

Many Americans cannot stay home when they are sick or when their children are sick. When I lived in Europe, one year I had the flu twice and stayed home a total of 3 weeks. My kid was sick and I stayed home another 7 days. When my co worker had a heart attack, they went to a rehab type facility and they were out for 6 weeks. In the US you would have been docked sick time. In many European countries, “sick days” are almost unlimited. Just look around on these boards to see how stressed families are, everyone is running low on PTO and using it up for when their family is sick.

And just look at how many people have large out of pocket cost on their health insurance. Medical care is extremely expensive in the US. I took my kids to the Dr for suspected RSV or Covid and ended up paying hundreds of $.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My BIL is a medical doctor in stockholm. His wife works high up at a big tech company (well there are almost no legit tech companies in europe but it is the european subsidiary of a big US company). They can barely afford a condo in the suburbs of stockholm with two bedrooms thanks to terrible government planning, socialist intervention and a near zero supply of places to live. So if you would like to be in the kind of place where a tech executive and surgeon call a two bedroom, 70 year old condo "a great lifestyle," then I guess Sweden is the place for you.

Lol yeah America is just awash is affordable housing!!

It's awash in affordable housing for a couple who are a tech exec and surgeon NO MATTER where you live.

That’s what socialism does. It makes life harder for a highly educated couple with good jobs. You have to pay for all of these benefits for the masses. I have many friends in Northern European countries and they are all well educated with good jobs. Their lifestyles and QOL are all worse than comparable couples here in the US. The COL of similar to living in Manhattan except they live in mid-tier cities you’ve likely never even heard of. They mostly eat at home, live in small homes or apartments, have one car, vacation in Spain, both couples work, send their kids to large daycares. In comparison the American couples have Nannies, live in larger homes, multiple cars, similar vacation time, wife wouldn’t have to work if they scaled back.

There are a lot of factors driving this though. Lower worker productivity, less innovation, less access to capital markets, fewer natural resources, currency risk etc.

This is only for the top 5-10% of Americans. Everyone else has to compromise on their lifestyle, send kids to daycare, buy small older homes (if they can afford to buy). I would rather have more equality than such economic stratification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is nice to not have to worry about health care and have work - life balance. When you are sick, you can see a doctor and stay home until you are better. When your kid is sick, you can take off work and stay home. If you end up unemployed for a while, you still have health care. It’s okay to take three weeks off to travel to Thailand or spend summer at the lake house. Enjoying nature is a way of life and relaxation a priority. Now you may live in a smaller apartment or house, and if you are a 1%er your life would probably be more luxurious in the US, but for the average middle class family, life is much more relaxed in Scandinavia (and some other European countries).

Can a normal middle class family afford to own a lake house to spend their summers at?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is nice to not have to worry about health care and have work - life balance. When you are sick, you can see a doctor and stay home until you are better. When your kid is sick, you can take off work and stay home. If you end up unemployed for a while, you still have health care. It’s okay to take three weeks off to travel to Thailand or spend summer at the lake house. Enjoying nature is a way of life and relaxation a priority. Now you may live in a smaller apartment or house, and if you are a 1%er your life would probably be more luxurious in the US, but for the average middle class family, life is much more relaxed in Scandinavia (and some other European countries).

Can a normal middle class family afford to own a lake house to spend their summers at?

Real estate is more expensive in Scandinavian countries. By a lot. Ignoring the last few years of real estate price increases, there are plenty of locations across the US where a small mountain house or cabin is $150k. You can easily live in western states or really anywhere and find a weekend/summer house if that’s what you want to spend your disposable income on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is nice to not have to worry about health care and have work - life balance. When you are sick, you can see a doctor and stay home until you are better. When your kid is sick, you can take off work and stay home. If you end up unemployed for a while, you still have health care. It’s okay to take three weeks off to travel to Thailand or spend summer at the lake house. Enjoying nature is a way of life and relaxation a priority. Now you may live in a smaller apartment or house, and if you are a 1%er your life would probably be more luxurious in the US, but for the average middle class family, life is much more relaxed in Scandinavia (and some other European countries).

This post makes me chuckle. This is what most Northern Europeans think about America. I receive 5 weeks (plus holidays) of vacation and it’s like they don’t even believe me. They can’t understand it doesn’t come from the government or how I receive something if it isn’t mandated. They also seem to question if I can go to the doctor even though when they go to the doctor almost all of the medical equipment is from the US. Same for many of the prescription drugs and medical devices.

I’m far from wealthy and everyone I know goes to the doctor, stays home when they are sick and stays home from work with a sick child. How would America be the power house that it is if we couldn’t even see the doctor when we are sick? That doesn’t make any sense. I’m from a flyover city and I don’t know anyone with a job who doesn’t have employer based health insurance or doesn’t have sick leave. Yes, there are people in America that don’t but a large percentage of them are not even US citizens.

Many Americans cannot stay home when they are sick or when their children are sick. When I lived in Europe, one year I had the flu twice and stayed home a total of 3 weeks. My kid was sick and I stayed home another 7 days. When my co worker had a heart attack, they went to a rehab type facility and they were out for 6 weeks. In the US you would have been docked sick time. In many European countries, “sick days” are almost unlimited. Just look around on these boards to see how stressed families are, everyone is running low on PTO and using it up for when their family is sick.

And just look at how many people have large out of pocket cost on their health insurance. Medical care is extremely expensive in the US. I took my kids to the Dr for suspected RSV or Covid and ended up paying hundreds of $.

No, you took them to the ER if you paid hundreds. Ridiculous. No one has huge fees as their regular doc.

I have COVID now. I have a bad flu in terms of symptoms. Why would I call or go to the doctor? To tell me what is obvious? Have you not now learned what to take with a bad cold/flu? Yes, it is uncomfortable. Taking Advil and cold meds. Good enough.

Going to the doctor for stupid stuff is why health care is so expensive. I see so many posts here saying if you get cold symptoms or a positive COVID test to make an appointment. Why on earth? Make an appointment if you have a problem out of the ordinary, not just symptoms of a cold! Doctors aren’t wizards with a magic wand. They can tell you what to do if you are so ineffectual not to know hot to treat symptoms as adults. It’s disgusting how Americans go to the doctor for nothing. The rest of the world makes fun of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is nice to not have to worry about health care and have work - life balance. When you are sick, you can see a doctor and stay home until you are better. When your kid is sick, you can take off work and stay home. If you end up unemployed for a while, you still have health care. It’s okay to take three weeks off to travel to Thailand or spend summer at the lake house. Enjoying nature is a way of life and relaxation a priority. Now you may live in a smaller apartment or house, and if you are a 1%er your life would probably be more luxurious in the US, but for the average middle class family, life is much more relaxed in Scandinavia (and some other European countries).

This post makes me chuckle. This is what most Northern Europeans think about America. I receive 5 weeks (plus holidays) of vacation and it’s like they don’t even believe me. They can’t understand it doesn’t come from the government or how I receive something if it isn’t mandated. They also seem to question if I can go to the doctor even though when they go to the doctor almost all of the medical equipment is from the US. Same for many of the prescription drugs and medical devices.

I’m far from wealthy and everyone I know goes to the doctor, stays home when they are sick and stays home from work with a sick child. How would America be the power house that it is if we couldn’t even see the doctor when we are sick? That doesn’t make any sense. I’m from a flyover city and I don’t know anyone with a job who doesn’t have employer based health insurance or doesn’t have sick leave. Yes, there are people in America that don’t but a large percentage of them are not even US citizens.

Many Americans cannot stay home when they are sick or when their children are sick. When I lived in Europe, one year I had the flu twice and stayed home a total of 3 weeks. My kid was sick and I stayed home another 7 days. When my co worker had a heart attack, they went to a rehab type facility and they were out for 6 weeks. In the US you would have been docked sick time. In many European countries, “sick days” are almost unlimited. Just look around on these boards to see how stressed families are, everyone is running low on PTO and using it up for when their family is sick.

And just look at how many people have large out of pocket cost on their health insurance. Medical care is extremely expensive in the US. I took my kids to the Dr for suspected RSV or Covid and ended up paying hundreds of $.

All I know is my friend in Sweden is having problems at work because her child has been sick too often. I think you have an overly rosy view of life in these countries and how you’d have unlimited paid sick leave.

[Anonymous]

The basic problem with all threads of this nature is not understanding how hard it will be when you are the immigrant. Not speaking the language, not understanding he culture. If you could be born Swedish, that would be one thing, but you will NEVER be Swedish.