If teachers are leaving left and right, is it the principal's fault?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like Shrevewood in Falls Church.

We Shrevewood parents deserve all the scorn we get on DCUM.

If the teachers are asking for transfers, I think that is a sure-fire signal that the principal isn't up to the job. If they are just quitting the profession, that is an entirely different story and could be due to any number of factors.

NP who is also a Shrevewood parent but I am not involved in the PTA. What have they done that's so bad?

I think Shrevewood is perfectly fine. My kid has had great teachers and since the pandemic it isn't really overcrowded. But if you read this board you'd think that it was a never-ending crisis. They did lose a third-grade teacher this week, though, which is always tough on the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like Shrevewood in Falls Church.

We Shrevewood parents deserve all the scorn we get on DCUM.

If the teachers are asking for transfers, I think that is a sure-fire signal that the principal isn't up to the job. If they are just quitting the profession, that is an entirely different story and could be due to any number of factors.

NP who is also a Shrevewood parent but I am not involved in the PTA. What have they done that's so bad?

I think Shrevewood is perfectly fine. My kid has had great teachers and since the pandemic it isn't really overcrowded. But if you read this board you'd think that it was a never-ending crisis. They did lose a third-grade teacher this week, though, which is always tough on the kids.

Why is Shrevewood constantly referenced on this board?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree. Parents are no longer doing their job at home and teaching kids how to behave. And when kids get in trouble elsewhere, they blame every but their kid%

I'm a teacher. I've been a teacher for over 30 years. It's not the kids. It's the adults. It's always the adults.

Sometimes it is the kids.

[Anonymous]

How 'bout lack of a livable salary for all the important work they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

What consequences do you think would make a difference? I am old enough to remember the days when teachers beat kids in the hallways. Behavior was even worse then than now. I remember feeling much more physically threatened by my own students. I actually think the behavior overall now is better than it was 35 years ago, when I got my first teaching job. The issue I see now that we didn't see then, was kids with severe emotional disabilities being kept in general ed classrooms, along with kids with learning disabilities and whatever else. Way back when, a lot of the really challenging kids (the ones who can ruin a teacher's entire year and make her quit) were not mainstreamed. Just my opinion, and apparently central admins don't agree, but I think mainstreaming kids with learning disabilities was the right thing to do, but mainstreaming kids with severe behavioral problems was not. If the kid is preventing 24 others from learning for every one of 180 days, then the kid needs to not be in that class.

Ditto. A couple of years ago, I had a kid with a diagnosis of oppositional defiance disorder placed in my honors class of 31 students. I don’t know how parents or admin. think this is going to work out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Principals have a huge part in it. The other factors mentioned are part of it, but if you have an admin team that truly has your back, that listens and problem-solves with you, then you are much more likely to stick it out. Principals have a great deal of power and very little oversight. Their supervisors have no idea what they do day to day, unless someone has the guts to go over their head. A friend of mine was repeatedly hit by a sixth-grader and had things thrown at her, and was told by the principal that the child didn’t throw things at other IAs, so she must be the problem. This was a very troubled girl and a highly experienced teacher. You would not believe how principals can sabotage a school and demoralize the staff. If you have a huge turnover each year, which some schools do repeatedly, the principal is the cause. Do region superintendents even hear from HR how many teachers are transferring or leaving each year?

One principal at an elementary school with huge turnover each year told the staff that losing 20-25 teachers each year was normal! I don’t think so.

In my view, this responsive classroom mess started a lot of principals thinking kids would just behave magically and no consequences are needed. Children need boundaries and clear behavior guidelines. A kid kicks the teacher and goes for a walk with the counselor and returns to class, having gotten all that personal attention? At the elementary level, they’ve lost sight of how reinforcing negative behavior works and not having reasonable consequences does not work. I’m a very therapeutic type of teacher, and fully understand that we need to figure out what help the child needs, but saying the teacher should have used a Kagan strategy is not working.

I wouldn’t know how to go over my principal’s head. I am pretty sure any attempt I made to report her would end in me being fired. Right now, most of the faculty just try to avoid her. What’s sad is that it takes teachers leaving en masse to even point to a problem. By then it’s too late.

Sorry to say I have taught at schools where teachers left en masse, and it made absolutely no difference. I do think that a lot of parent complaints will eventually stir someone to look into something. Complaints to the school board as well as central admin are more effective than complaints that don't include the school board. In as far as anything is effective, that is.

DP. True - except at low-income and/or Title 1 schools, parents don't complain. They either don't care, or they simply don't speak English and are two busy working multiple jobs to pay much attention to school. So those schools continue to lose teachers because the good ones aren't about to put up with this behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like Shrevewood in Falls Church.

We Shrevewood parents deserve all the scorn we get on DCUM.

If the teachers are asking for transfers, I think that is a sure-fire signal that the principal isn't up to the job. If they are just quitting the profession, that is an entirely different story and could be due to any number of factors.

NP who is also a Shrevewood parent but I am not involved in the PTA. What have they done that's so bad?

I think Shrevewood is perfectly fine. My kid has had great teachers and since the pandemic it isn't really overcrowded. But if you read this board you'd think that it was a never-ending crisis. They did lose a third-grade teacher this week, though, which is always tough on the kids.

Why is Shrevewood constantly referenced on this board?

I think there’s probably one or two parents from that school that come here to vent. There are a couple others people like to complain about here too - haycock, chesterbrook, mantua, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

What consequences do you think would make a difference? I am old enough to remember the days when teachers beat kids in the hallways. Behavior was even worse then than now. I remember feeling much more physically threatened by my own students. I actually think the behavior overall now is better than it was 35 years ago, when I got my first teaching job. The issue I see now that we didn't see then, was kids with severe emotional disabilities being kept in general ed classrooms, along with kids with learning disabilities and whatever else. Way back when, a lot of the really challenging kids (the ones who can ruin a teacher's entire year and make her quit) were not mainstreamed. Just my opinion, and apparently central admins don't agree, but I think mainstreaming kids with learning disabilities was the right thing to do, but mainstreaming kids with severe behavioral problems was not. If the kid is preventing 24 others from learning for every one of 180 days, then the kid needs to not be in that class.

+ a million

[Anonymous]

Random question - are teacher resignations as bad in Asian-heavy schools? My observance among my Asian family members and friends are that we are very supportive of our children’s education and embarrassed by misbehavior in school (meaning we discipline the kid so they don’t do it again, we don’t argue that teacher was too harsh). Teachers are highly respected in our cultures. I am stereotyping but I am close with people from India, Pakistan, China, Japan, Korea and the attitudes are largely consistent. I would think teachers would feel more valued in such situations and less prone to quitting?

[Anonymous]

There are poorly behaved kids in every school. The worst bulky in my child’s class is the child of Indian immigrants (we are in a school with a very large Indian population). His parents are in denial about his disruptive behavior. I think a lot of Asian families refuse to get their children tested for things like add as well as learning disabilities. And those kids get frustrated and act up just like a white kid would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are poorly behaved kids in every school. The worst bulky in my child’s class is the child of Indian immigrants (we are in a school with a very large Indian population). His parents are in denial about his disruptive behavior. I think a lot of Asian families refuse to get their children tested for things like add as well as learning disabilities. And those kids get frustrated and act up just like a white kid would.

This. You can walk into any classroom in FCPS and there will be at least 1-2 kids if not more who are behavior problems. The extent of the behavior varies. Most teachers have at least one kid who does not stop talking all day. Most teachers have a kid who walks around the room or can’t keep their hands to themselves. Most teachers have a kid who is constantly inappropriate. Most teachers have at least one kid who causes drama where teaching needs to stop so we can deal with whatever rumors are going around.

That being said, there are many teachers who have 3-6 kids in a class like that and also have severe behavior issues too.


In order for true change to occur…
K-6 classes should be capped at 20 and 7-12 at 25.
Students need consequences and parent follow through.
In ES, the staffing for ESOL needs to be better.
Parents should have less power when it comes to getting kids help. So many parents are in denial about their kids that they actually refuse testing because they don’t want a label. Meanwhile their kids are struggling in school academically and behavior wise.
There should two full time counselors for every 500 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

Do not fool yourself into believing this. We are at a VERY expensive private and there are tons of kids with bad behavior and it is addressed like this: kid acts up, get walked around school by assistant teacher (so basically is rewarded with 1-on-1 attention), other kids in classroom get that much less attention, parents notified, kid is given no consequence at home, repeat the next day at school, never ending cycle.

[Anonymous]

Generally, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

It’s cute you believe this. I’ve taught in both public and private, some of the best private schools in the US. We often got the horribly behaved rich kids who were kicked out of public. Daddy’s money bought them a seat. That’s not true in all privates. My kids were in a really good private school. But don’t go into teaching with false beliefs. There are shi77y kids in both settings. And private school parents can be insufferable.