Speak up (to your school) if you are worried about all the redshirting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I have said previously, can we worry about real problems. Having a few redshirted kids in the grade is not a big deal. Can people stop second guessing decisions made by other parents. It is none of your business!! Our son is at a Big 3, and there are several redshirted kids in the grade. It has been a non-issue at all levels, kids, parents and teachers. If some kid happens to have some school issues, that does not mean that the problem is due to redshirting. Get a life!!

School policy that allows unwarranted redshirting by parents trying to game the system to gain an advantage for their child relative to other children is EVERYONE's business. These parctices can be harmful to the children and to the school community. It is not a question of parental choice but school policy, which we parents have the right and the responsibility to scrutinize.

This is right. It is absolutely my business. The 7 year old in my daughter's kindergarten class, held back by his parents to gain an advantage, because he wasn't the smartest or the most athletic in his pre-k class, who will one day be a nineteen year old in her 12th grade class (while she is 17) is certainly my business. And I will speak up about it, along with the other parents, until the school stops allowing it.

[Anonymous]

PP makes a good point.

[Anonymous]

Poster with the teacher parents and the august girl who will be redshirted.

First, i can think of two girls in K alone at Big Three schools who are redshirted with Aug b-days. I think the practice is alive and well for girls as well. Maybe not for a May B-day or even June but for kids pretty close to the cut off. Further, another friend with elementary age kid at a Big Three says her kid with March b-day is the youngest in his class bc there is so much red-shirting, which under your wise advice would mean in such a class my DD would be an extra half a year younger than the youngest kid. Great!

My parents (the teachers) were talking kids who were on the cusp of b-days - depending on school district, but commonly Sept 1. They could've gone either way. Finally, about all the data on the girls maturing etc... it's hard for me to be grasp that a kid who was born a week later than mine would be be appropriately placed and mine is going to somehow be too developed and suffer.

But the great thing about this country is, you don't have to agree with me. Do what you want with your kid. Pick the research you like the best. If the schools decide it is some terrible practice, well then I'm sure they'll put a stop to it. Following the anxiety on these boards around the private school admissions season, I don't get the sense that the private schools around are just pressured into taking any kid in any grade at any age. If they think it's hurting the classroom or the school, they'll stop it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I have said previously, can we worry about real problems. Having a few redshirted kids in the grade is not a big deal. Can people stop second guessing decisions made by other parents. It is none of your business!! Our son is at a Big 3, and there are several redshirted kids in the grade. It has been a non-issue at all levels, kids, parents and teachers. If some kid happens to have some school issues, that does not mean that the problem is due to redshirting. Get a life!!

School policy that allows unwarranted redshirting by parents trying to game the system to gain an advantage for their child relative to other children is EVERYONE's business. These parctices can be harmful to the children and to the school community. It is not a question of parental choice but school policy, which we parents have the right and the responsibility to scrutinize.

This is right. It is absolutely my business. The 7 year old in my daughter's kindergarten class, held back by his parents to gain an advantage, because he wasn't the smartest or the most athletic in his pre-k class, who will one day be a nineteen year old in her 12th grade class (while she is 17) is certainly my business. And I will speak up about it, along with the other parents, until the school stops allowing it.

Can you name the school please?

[Anonymous]

I fundamentally disagree that non-redshirted kids are somehow at a great disadvantage by a few redshirted kids in their grade. Do not buy it. Let parents make their own decisions. I am 100% confident that I would not agree with all of your parental decisions, and I am equally confident that you would not agree with all of my parental decisions. We seem to be stuck on the idea that all kids develop at the same pace. Just as with growth spirts, kids develop academically at different speeds at different times. The straight A math student at Math Facts level may not be good in high school math.

[Anonymous]

PP-

Teacher here...

The issue is bigger than that. The bigger you make the age range, the harder it is for teachers to differentiate. That takes a toll on EVERYONE. Additionally, if students are really presenting as below grade level, then they likely have special or additional needs. By not addressing this, opting to red-shirting over getting them the support they need, it further stretches a teacher.

Lastly, a big issue here is the implication that parents know more about development than teachers/schools. Now, I'm sure there are individual parents who know more than individual teachers. And as we've seen, schools have other bottom lines that sometimes compete with the best interests of the students. But I know, for myself, I put my students first and foremost. And I think it's incredibly arrogant for a parent, with no formal training in development or education, to walk into a meeting with me and tell me what is right developmentally for their child. Parents absolutely know their children in a way that teachers never will and should stop at nothing to advocate on behalf of them. But this advocacy should be informed. Demanding something that is ultimately harmful to your child is not advocacy. I realize the difficulty that exists in navigating the private school world and that parents need to keep a critical eye towards what they hear from teachers/administrators (again, not all put students first). But I don't walk into your place of work and tell you what to do. Please stop walking into mine and doing the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here...

Lastly, a big issue here is the implication that parents know more about development than teachers/schools. Now, I'm sure there are individual parents who know more than individual teachers. And as we've seen, schools have other bottom lines that sometimes compete with the best interests of the students. But I know, for myself, I put my students first and foremost. And I think it's incredibly arrogant for a parent, with no formal training in development or education, to walk into a meeting with me and tell me what is right developmentally for their child. Parents absolutely know their children in a way that teachers never will and should stop at nothing to advocate on behalf of them. But this advocacy should be informed. Demanding something that is ultimately harmful to your child is not advocacy. I realize the difficulty that exists in navigating the private school world and that parents need to keep a critical eye towards what they hear from teachers/administrators (again, not all put students first). But I don't walk into your place of work and tell you what to do. Please stop walking into mine and doing the same.

Your point here seems to be that teachers are best situated to assess the needs of their students (and less biased than parents). So by your own logic, if teachers at a school think that a student should be held back, then parents should trust that assessment and "redshirt" the child, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But I don't walk into your place of work and tell you what to do. Please stop walking into mine and doing the same.

Yes, but what if the teacher/admin is telling you to redshirt against your better judgment? Are we supposed to blindly follow that advice, too? This isn't exactly science -- it's about judgment calls. The head of our school, with unbelievable arrogance, told us we should take her advice and redshirt a May birthday boy because she had "never been wrong once in 17 years." It wasn't for any good reason other than that boys mature differently than girls and our boy was (and always will be) rather shy. The reason she could say this is that kids who are redshirted are by definition always going to have an advantage socially and academically. So in retrospect it's always going to look like it was a great idea, and there's no way to know whether the kid would have been fine otherwise.

This is still a sore point with me many years after the fact. My child is now a superstar academically, but he is arrogant, because he compares himself to his peers (who are now all boys) and finds so many of them less mature and less academically advanced than he. I have to remind him that he is older than some of his friends, and they need some time to catch up. Selfishly I am glad he will be with us for that extra year, so that we can reinforce the values we teach at home for another year before sending him out into the big world. But I do have parents say to me, "oh, yes, I keep forgetting he is a year older" -- as though it is unfair that their sons are being compared to mine. And perhaps it is.

There are other boys in the school who were redshirted for other reasons, and maybe that was the right call for them. But to those of you who are being pressured by a private to redshirt for no demonstrable reason -- my advice would be to have the courage of your convictions that we did not, and go to public school if you think your child will be fine in the correct year. You can always move to private and repeat a year down the road if you need to. But once you have made the decision to redshirt at K, there's really no turning back.

[Anonymous]

Whoa, Teacher, you lost me here with putting the blame on parents for presuming they know more about development than the schools. These are private schools we are talking about. They decide who is admitted and when. They are the ones driving these decisions. And, frankly, thats how it should be. They are in charge of the educational program and if a parent doesn't like the way a particular school organizes their program, he or she can take her kids elsewhere. I've always thought in general that its one thing for parents to work with the school concerning their particular child -- thats great -- but when parents exercise too much influence over curriculum, structure, policy decisions in a private school, it is generally to the detriment of the school. The best schools keep parents at arm's length for these decisions.

[Anonymous]

Redshirting a shy May birthday is ridiculous. I am glad you have a good sense of retrospection on your son.

[Anonymous]

problem with the teachers complaining on this cite about the redshirting is that there are more cases of private schools advocating holding back than outright advocating moving forward. often decision lies with parents, but i think there are less cases of a school saying no no you really should not hold back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But I don't walk into your place of work and tell you what to do. Please stop walking into mine and doing the same.

Yes, but what if the teacher/admin is telling you to redshirt against your better judgment? Are we supposed to blindly follow that advice, too? This isn't exactly science -- it's about judgment calls. The head of our school, with unbelievable arrogance, told us we should take her advice and redshirt a May birthday boy because she had "never been wrong once in 17 years." It wasn't for any good reason other than that boys mature differently than girls and our boy was (and always will be) rather shy. The reason she could say this is that kids who are redshirted are by definition always going to have an advantage socially and academically. So in retrospect it's always going to look like it was a great idea, and there's no way to know whether the kid would have been fine otherwise.

This is still a sore point with me many years after the fact. My child is now a superstar academically, but he is arrogant, because he compares himself to his peers (who are now all boys) and finds so many of them less mature and less academically advanced than he. I have to remind him that he is older than some of his friends, and they need some time to catch up. Selfishly I am glad he will be with us for that extra year, so that we can reinforce the values we teach at home for another year before sending him out into the big world. But I do have parents say to me, "oh, yes, I keep forgetting he is a year older" -- as though it is unfair that their sons are being compared to mine. And perhaps it is.

There are other boys in the school who were redshirted for other reasons, and maybe that was the right call for them. But to those of you who are being pressured by a private to redshirt for no demonstrable reason -- my advice would be to have the courage of your convictions that we did not, and go to public school if you think your child will be fine in the correct year. You can always move to private and repeat a year down the road if you need to. But once you have made the decision to redshirt at K, there's really no turning back.

Hmmm. Perhaps I should put in a phone call to another private or ask DS's school to let him repeat a year of high school. Who-Ivy Athletics here we come!!!

[Anonymous]

Where I have a problem is when my April birthdate son, who is pretty good athletically, but not great, is bumped out of a spot because he is competing against kids 12-18 months older than him. On smaller count athletic teams like basketball, this has a huge effect.

[Anonymous]

I have an april birthday also and while in MS this may be an issue, it is starting to make little difference in HS except in a few cases. The majority of the older boys in the class are not academically in the top and while their big size in MS did make a difference,many of the boys are catching up and skills are playing a role as well. Size matters in basketball and the tallest and best players are going to make the team regardless of age in HS.

[Anonymous]

Yes, everyone says that things will balance out in high school. I see that in some of the kids who are older appear to me that they have already "peaked" physically and athletically. My concern is when a kid gets shut out early on because there are limited slots on a team. Unless a school has patience and can discount that some kids are older or some develop late, they may never get that chance.