Is your freshman getting a booster to fulfill college requirement Fall 22?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The big deal is that there is no benefit for OP's kid, w/two shots and two covid infections. Only risk. Forcing it is unethical. There is no basis.

(See eg https://www.fda.gov/media/159007/download #38)

I agree (I'm not the pp you quoted, but I'm the first respondent at 16:41 yesterday.)
But schools made their position on the vaccine known before decision day (May 1.) As a pp noted, a few (like Rice and Vanderbilt) have actually walked back their requirement for a booster (I'm not aware of any schools that did NOT have a booster requirement on May 1, but have since mandated it.)

If it was important to someone to have a choice to not get the booster, they could have applied to many other schools that not only do not require the booster, but do not require the vaccine at all.

Yes! Colleges can set their requirements. You can choose not to attend if you don't want to follow it. Colleges have had vaccination reqs for decades. Some even require Meningitis B vax, others don't. My kid can't attend most universities without the whole slew of vaccinations, similar to what was required in K-12 as well. If you are a Health sciences major, you may have even more reqs. My DC is employed at a company involved in the Healthcare industry, and guess what, since they have to travel to "healthcare sites", they are required to get a TB test done (and follow up with treatment I'd assume if they happen to test positive). It's part of the job reqs. Don't like it, they can find another job. Similarly they are required to be up to date on all other vaccines, including covid and a booster. I for one would prefer anyone I might encounter in healthcare setting to be fully vaxed for all diseases.

+1 from college faculty. Families who don't work in higher ed, use your imagination about the human petri dish that is a college campus. Now multiply that by 100, stop washing your hands, and share your beverage with the 6 nearest people around you, even if you've never met them before. Even before covid, college students were sick *constantly*. Anything you can immunize against, do it, and any healthy behaviors you can promote (including basic things like nutrition and sleep), do it.

As PPs have said, families of rising college freshmen are completely free to decline admissions offers at any time from schools with whose policies (of any kind) they disagree. And absolute truth to tell, as inconvenient or expensive or disappointing or frustrating or bait-and-switch or wasteful as it might seem, older students are also completely free to take a gap year or transfer out if they don't want their school's covid mandates. No one is forcibly trapped in college.

What subject do you teach in college?

Yes, college campuses are Petri dishes. However, the Covid vaccine and the Covid booster do NOT prevent transmit on of Covid. We have known that for a long time now.

How does mandating a Covid vaccine or booster help prevent the spread of Covid? It does not.

This isn't true. Vaccines and boosters reduce the spread of Covid 19.


One study of households in Scotland found that vaccination reduces transmission by 40-50% among household members.

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298

Yes, it does not reduce the transmission to 0% but it greatly reduces it. If everyone had just gotten vaxed initially, covid would not have been allowed to mutate as much and we would be in a different place right now. Measles used to be a thing of the past in the USA (and much of the world), but as more people don't vax their kids, we have seen more outbreaks in the past 15 years. Same with Whooping cough---know a fully vaxed teen that had a nasty case 8 years ago when it went rampant in our community, not to mention how dangerous it was to any of the younger kids who got it who were not yet old enough to be fully vaxed against it.
Herd immunity is a real thing, despite some people not wanting to believe in science.

Hilarious. If you (and the CDC/FDA) beloved in science, they would acknowledge and honor natural immunity, as they do in other parts of the world.

And, even your hero Fauci quit pushing the idea of hers immunity about a year and a half ago.

Fauci quit pushing it when it became apparent that a significant portion of those in USA don't believe in science enough to get the vax.

Your comment makes absolutely no sense.

[Anonymous]

What isn't quite clear on here are the reasons for folks' objections to following the rules of the colleges of their choice. Aside from individual cases of things like allergies to vaccine components, do people's objections stem from:

- personal freedom (being given medical / physical rules to follow that one does not agree with)
- medical aversion (concerns about the vaccine itself and its long-term or short-term effects)
- perceived governmental misapplication (CDC guidance transforming into college policies in comparison or conflict with local governments' own rules)
- something else

One thing it is unlikely to be is insufficient access: there are plenty of things that we all do that require a lot more time, effort, and discomfort than the immediate transaction part of getting an immunization that is so widely available, and colleges that require it will be glad to point people towards locations where appointments can be made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What isn't quite clear on here are the reasons for folks' objections to following the rules of the colleges of their choice. Aside from individual cases of things like allergies to vaccine components, do people's objections stem from:

- personal freedom (being given medical / physical rules to follow that one does not agree with)
- medical aversion (concerns about the vaccine itself and its long-term or short-term effects)
- perceived governmental misapplication (CDC guidance transforming into college policies in comparison or conflict with local governments' own rules)
- something else

One thing it is unlikely to be is insufficient access: there are plenty of things that we all do that require a lot more time, effort, and discomfort than the immediate transaction part of getting an immunization that is so widely available, and colleges that require it will be glad to point people towards locations where appointments can be made.

Perhaps each has different reasons. One might even say "all of the above."

- Personal autonomy: medical ethics require that a mandate both benefit the person against severe disease and prevent transmission. Accordingly, college booster mandates are contrary to medical ethics. Why should colleges be exempt from medical ethics?
- Many young adults had worse side effects from the initial doses than from covid itself - which they have had - seroprevalence estimates are very high, well north of 70%.
- govt misapplication might be one way to put it, inappropriate language coming from CDC Director's mouth is literally the only reason colleges have mandated boosters, as she did not do so based on data and indeed went against her own committee's recommendation to limit boosters to >50. (There is no benefit against severe disease for students, there was no hosp/death in the adult booster trial, etc etc.) The top FDA vaccine experts, Gruber and Krause, each with decades of experience leading the FDA on vaccines, resigned over the booster issue, with the White House demanding that all adults be eligible for boosters last fall; that scandal was briefly covered in NYT but did not garner the level of scrutiny that it should have at the time. To top it off, yesterday, the President managed to admit that CDC was doing his political will.

My child is among those who have had multiple cardiology evaluations and other medical issues since getting the initial series. Not getting a booster, zero benefit, only risk of worsening the medical situation. College is refusing all non-allergy exemptions. Will likely have to transfer schools unless the booster mandate is lifted, which is time and money. We can afford to waste that kind of money, but many students cannot, their college plans financed on a shoestring, with limited options.

No college student is avoiding boosters simply because they're "a snowflake afraid of a needle," as a PP was suggesting. Please. Getting the booster would certainly be the simpler route. Requiring boosters for enrollment is not an ethical practice.

[Anonymous]

Some schools are dropping their booster mandates, one by one. Cornell, Duke, and Northwestern no longer require boosters, Vanderbilt and Rice do not require the initial series due to their respective state laws, WUSTL never required the booster. Obviously UVA doesn't require, though UMD does. UNC doesn't require, Michigan does. At the moment booster requirements, or lack thereof, are all over the place and may continue to change over the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What isn't quite clear on here are the reasons for folks' objections to following the rules of the colleges of their choice. Aside from individual cases of things like allergies to vaccine components, do people's objections stem from:

- personal freedom (being given medical / physical rules to follow that one does not agree with)
- medical aversion (concerns about the vaccine itself and its long-term or short-term effects)
- perceived governmental misapplication (CDC guidance transforming into college policies in comparison or conflict with local governments' own rules)
- something else

One thing it is unlikely to be is insufficient access: there are plenty of things that we all do that require a lot more time, effort, and discomfort than the immediate transaction part of getting an immunization that is so widely available, and colleges that require it will be glad to point people towards locations where appointments can be made.

Perhaps each has different reasons. One might even say "all of the above."

- Personal autonomy: medical ethics require that a mandate both benefit the person against severe disease and prevent transmission. Accordingly, college booster mandates are contrary to medical ethics. Why should colleges be exempt from medical ethics?
- Many young adults had worse side effects from the initial doses than from covid itself - which they have had - seroprevalence estimates are very high, well north of 70%.
- govt misapplication might be one way to put it, inappropriate language coming from CDC Director's mouth is literally the only reason colleges have mandated boosters, as she did not do so based on data and indeed went against her own committee's recommendation to limit boosters to >50. (There is no benefit against severe disease for students, there was no hosp/death in the adult booster trial, etc etc.) The top FDA vaccine experts, Gruber and Krause, each with decades of experience leading the FDA on vaccines, resigned over the booster issue, with the White House demanding that all adults be eligible for boosters last fall; that scandal was briefly covered in NYT but did not garner the level of scrutiny that it should have at the time. To top it off, yesterday, the President managed to admit that CDC was doing his political will.

My child is among those who have had multiple cardiology evaluations and other medical issues since getting the initial series. Not getting a booster, zero benefit, only risk of worsening the medical situation. College is refusing all non-allergy exemptions. Will likely have to transfer schools unless the booster mandate is lifted, which is time and money. We can afford to waste that kind of money, but many students cannot, their college plans financed on a shoestring, with limited options.

No college student is avoiding boosters simply because they're "a snowflake afraid of a needle," as a PP was suggesting. Please. Getting the booster would certainly be the simpler route. Requiring boosters for enrollment is not an ethical practice.

Great response. Unfortunately many in this country find it perfectly acceptable to pitch ethics to the side when it meets their political narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What isn't quite clear on here are the reasons for folks' objections to following the rules of the colleges of their choice. Aside from individual cases of things like allergies to vaccine components, do people's objections stem from:

- personal freedom (being given medical / physical rules to follow that one does not agree with)
- medical aversion (concerns about the vaccine itself and its long-term or short-term effects)
- perceived governmental misapplication (CDC guidance transforming into college policies in comparison or conflict with local governments' own rules)
- something else

One thing it is unlikely to be is insufficient access: there are plenty of things that we all do that require a lot more time, effort, and discomfort than the immediate transaction part of getting an immunization that is so widely available, and colleges that require it will be glad to point people towards locations where appointments can be made.

Perhaps each has different reasons. One might even say "all of the above."

- Personal autonomy: medical ethics require that a mandate both benefit the person against severe disease and prevent transmission. Accordingly, college booster mandates are contrary to medical ethics. Why should colleges be exempt from medical ethics?
- Many young adults had worse side effects from the initial doses than from covid itself - which they have had - seroprevalence estimates are very high, well north of 70%.
- govt misapplication might be one way to put it, inappropriate language coming from CDC Director's mouth is literally the only reason colleges have mandated boosters, as she did not do so based on data and indeed went against her own committee's recommendation to limit boosters to >50. (There is no benefit against severe disease for students, there was no hosp/death in the adult booster trial, etc etc.) The top FDA vaccine experts, Gruber and Krause, each with decades of experience leading the FDA on vaccines, resigned over the booster issue, with the White House demanding that all adults be eligible for boosters last fall; that scandal was briefly covered in NYT but did not garner the level of scrutiny that it should have at the time. To top it off, yesterday, the President managed to admit that CDC was doing his political will.

My child is among those who have had multiple cardiology evaluations and other medical issues since getting the initial series. Not getting a booster, zero benefit, only risk of worsening the medical situation. College is refusing all non-allergy exemptions. Will likely have to transfer schools unless the booster mandate is lifted, which is time and money. We can afford to waste that kind of money, but many students cannot, their college plans financed on a shoestring, with limited options.

No college student is avoiding boosters simply because they're "a snowflake afraid of a needle," as a PP was suggesting. Please. Getting the booster would certainly be the simpler route. Requiring boosters for enrollment is not an ethical practice.

Great response. Unfortunately many in this country find it perfectly acceptable to pitch ethics to the side when it meets their political narrative.

Agree with both of these PPs.

It is insanity that colleges would require an irreversible medical procedure (a booster) that is of questionable benefit to the student and to the community as a whole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some schools are dropping their booster mandates, one by one. Cornell, Duke, and Northwestern no longer require boosters, Vanderbilt and Rice do not require the initial series due to their respective state laws, WUSTL never required the booster. Obviously UVA doesn't require, though UMD does. UNC doesn't require, Michigan does. At the moment booster requirements, or lack thereof, are all over the place and may continue to change over the summer.

And why is that? Did they decide they aren't necessary after all? Yet just months ago, they were willing to force students to take them anyway---and YES, it is force. When a senior is told they have to take the vaccine/booster or no longer go to school there, what choice do they really have? You can't transfer to another university for the final semester. Just drop out of college with one semester left--after 3.5 years and thousands of dollars?
IMO it doesn't matter if they backtrack now--they were willing to do evil things to young adults. Never forget that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some schools are dropping their booster mandates, one by one. Cornell, Duke, and Northwestern no longer require boosters, Vanderbilt and Rice do not require the initial series due to their respective state laws, WUSTL never required the booster. Obviously UVA doesn't require, though UMD does. UNC doesn't require, Michigan does. At the moment booster requirements, or lack thereof, are all over the place and may continue to change over the summer.

And why is that? Did they decide they aren't necessary after all? Yet just months ago, they were willing to force students to take them anyway---and YES, it is force. When a senior is told they have to take the vaccine/booster or no longer go to school there, what choice do they really have? You can't transfer to another university for the final semester. Just drop out of college with one semester left--after 3.5 years and thousands of dollars?
IMO it doesn't matter if they backtrack now--they were willing to do evil things to young adults. Never forget that.

History will not look kindly on how we have treated our children during Covid (College students too). It will have lasting impacts and most likely be a generational game changer. The loss of learning and social development has set our kids back years. It was screwed up by the numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some schools are dropping their booster mandates, one by one. Cornell, Duke, and Northwestern no longer require boosters, Vanderbilt and Rice do not require the initial series due to their respective state laws, WUSTL never required the booster. Obviously UVA doesn't require, though UMD does. UNC doesn't require, Michigan does. At the moment booster requirements, or lack thereof, are all over the place and may continue to change over the summer.

And why is that? Did they decide they aren't necessary after all? Yet just months ago, they were willing to force students to take them anyway---and YES, it is force. When a senior is told they have to take the vaccine/booster or no longer go to school there, what choice do they really have? You can't transfer to another university for the final semester. Just drop out of college with one semester left--after 3.5 years and thousands of dollars?
IMO it doesn't matter if they backtrack now--they were willing to do evil things to young adults. Never forget that.

History will not look kindly on how we have treated our children during Covid (College students too). It will have lasting impacts and most likely be a generational game changer. The loss of learning and social development has set our kids back years. It was screwed up by the numbers.

+1 million

Not to mention that we will have an entire generation of teens/young adults who have lost faith in our public health agencies. Our public health ‘experts’ have not made our children a priority and have beacially thrown them under the bus (with regards to school closures and unnecessary vaccine mandates).

Forcing an experimental medical treatment on a generation of young adults for absolutely no good reason? They will understandably be cynical going forward. Good luck getting those young adults to follow other (potentially valid) public health policies when Fauci and the rest have destroyed their own credibility.

[Anonymous]

*basically thrown them under the bus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The big deal is that there is no benefit for OP's kid, w/two shots and two covid infections. Only risk. Forcing it is unethical. There is no basis.

(See eg https://www.fda.gov/media/159007/download #38)

I agree (I'm not the pp you quoted, but I'm the first respondent at 16:41 yesterday.)
But schools made their position on the vaccine known before decision day (May 1.) As a pp noted, a few (like Rice and Vanderbilt) have actually walked back their requirement for a booster (I'm not aware of any schools that did NOT have a booster requirement on May 1, but have since mandated it.)

If it was important to someone to have a choice to not get the booster, they could have applied to many other schools that not only do not require the booster, but do not require the vaccine at all.

Yes! Colleges can set their requirements. You can choose not to attend if you don't want to follow it. Colleges have had vaccination reqs for decades. Some even require Meningitis B vax, others don't. My kid can't attend most universities without the whole slew of vaccinations, similar to what was required in K-12 as well. If you are a Health sciences major, you may have even more reqs. My DC is employed at a company involved in the Healthcare industry, and guess what, since they have to travel to "healthcare sites", they are required to get a TB test done (and follow up with treatment I'd assume if they happen to test positive). It's part of the job reqs. Don't like it, they can find another job. Similarly they are required to be up to date on all other vaccines, including covid and a booster. I for one would prefer anyone I might encounter in healthcare setting to be fully vaxed for all diseases.

+1 from college faculty. Families who don't work in higher ed, use your imagination about the human petri dish that is a college campus. Now multiply that by 100, stop washing your hands, and share your beverage with the 6 nearest people around you, even if you've never met them before. Even before covid, college students were sick *constantly*. Anything you can immunize against, do it, and any healthy behaviors you can promote (including basic things like nutrition and sleep), do it.

As PPs have said, families of rising college freshmen are completely free to decline admissions offers at any time from schools with whose policies (of any kind) they disagree. And absolute truth to tell, as inconvenient or expensive or disappointing or frustrating or bait-and-switch or wasteful as it might seem, older students are also completely free to take a gap year or transfer out if they don't want their school's covid mandates. No one is forcibly trapped in college.

What subject do you teach in college?

Yes, college campuses are Petri dishes. However, the Covid vaccine and the Covid booster do NOT prevent transmit on of Covid. We have known that for a long time now.

How does mandating a Covid vaccine or booster help prevent the spread of Covid? It does not.

Same college faculty member here. I'm not arguing for or against covid vaccines, merely pointing out that there are practices and choices out there that can (although never with total reliability or with total guarantee of no side effects or repercussions) reduce the chances of serious illness in general and therefore reduce lost days of class (and of fun). These choices can range from sharing soda cans to STD prevention to eating healthy food to flu shots to alcohol and drug use to immunizations. But no one can ever force a student to attend any individual school whose policies they will not accept. They have the complete freedom to withdraw at any moment of any day.

That is ridiculous. It is a huge ordeal to transfer colleges.

Don’t pretend college students have a ‘choice’ to leave if they don’t want to get vaccinated. That is like saying you have a choice not to get an abortion - you can simply choose not to get pregnant.

By definition, a mandate takes away an individual’s right to choose.

[Anonymous]

My DC's school does not require a booster, for which we are very grateful. DC has had both shots and got very sick after each one - and has also had Covid. Enough, already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC's school does not require a booster, for which we are very grateful. DC has had both shots and got very sick after each one - and has also had Covid. Enough, already.

More parents need to stand up and make this clear. Let's stand up and make our voices heard for our teens/young adults.

[Anonymous]

Agree wholeheartedly with PP, but how do we do this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree wholeheartedly with PP, but how do we do this?

no college mandates dot cm