If you are middle class (<150k HHI), how would things be different if you were rich (>400k HHI)
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Anonymous
I'm not clear on the argument here. Is it that there should be no regional variation in where you draw class lines, such that a "middle class" standard of living is based on national averages no matter where you are? I feel like this obscures things a bit and means that you can't actually say "here are the standard of living markers" because those DO vary based on where you live. |
Anonymous
No one has argued that. You literally can't have any of that on an HHI of 150k in the DMV, except "multiple vacations" (which is insanely broad -- even poor people go on vacations, often more than one a year, they just aren't expensive vacations). My DH and I make about 140k. We have one kid. We live in the DMV. We worry about money ALL THE TIME. We own a townhouse in a neighborhood with lots of challenges, including objectively struggling schools. Not only is college not "fully funded", but we stress about how we will pay for college for our ONE child regularly. We do take multiple vacations a year, they are stuff like driving to Virginia Beach and staying in an AirBnB for a few days in the off season or flying to visit family (so limited accommodations cost). We eat at home most of the time and we clip coupons. We do not have cable. Housing and student loans are a biggest line items on our budget, by a lot. We are middle class. In the DMV, a family of 3-4 on 80k (what others are saying is "middle class") is scratching the bottom of the middle class. Less than that you are likely working poor, unless you have other advantages (like inheriting a house in a good school district you could never have afforded otherwise). But yes, 150k is middle class here, and you are not living extravagantly by most measures (unless you are talking about global standards, which we are not). The ability to buy a very modest home, take a couple modest vacations, and save a little bit (but by no means "enough") for college does not magically make you upper class. |
Anonymous
Did you grow up middle class? I did, and multiple vacations a year is not middle class. Middle class means you are on a grocery budget and you buy almost everything on sale so you go to three different grocery stores to hit the sales. It means Christmas gifts for kids are bought throughout the year (on sale) and mostly consist of practical things like clothes. It means vacations typically involve driving, packing your own breakfasts or lunches and staying somewhere like the holiday inn us considered fancy. Some years we didn’t have vacations depending on other expenses. I almost never (like maybe 3 times in my childhood) went to the movie theatre to see a movie. We didn’t have a college fund, and we all took out loans and got financial aid. We got “take out” once every coupe of weeks to once a month and it was either pizza or KFC (just the chicken and my mom would make some sides). We weren’t poor - my parents always managed to save a bit and bought a house in a nice neighborhood (in a small city) but money was always something we thought about. My DH grew up UMC and he would describe middle class like you have. But it’s not. To answer the question, more $$ meant we could have the number of kids we wanted because we could afford a house with another bedroom and childcare expenses. |
Anonymous
How much did you spend on your housing, cars and other things? We lived very comfortably on $140K and saved for college. We had two old cars (till we had to buy a new one), got the cheapest house we could find and DIY or saved and paid cash for repairs (and it needed everything), and didn't take vacations except a weekend or so once a year. We never worried about money and saved for college and retirement. We weren't living lavishly but if we needed something we could do it. Saying a modest house means nothing as you can spend a million for what you consider a modest house or a real modest house as in 1000 square feet under $350-400K. |
Anonymous
Traveling/vacation is a bit of a red herring. We don't travel much for financial reasons but our cleaner manages to fly to her home country twice a year.... Your description to me reads working class, not middle middle class. Some of it even sounds poor rather than middle class. Never going to the movie theaters because you can't afford it is genuine poverty except that the poor do go to movie theaters while your parents had a mortgage. You are guilty of projecting your perception of middle class across the spectrum and calling anything slightly more comfortable than your childhood as upper middle class. |
Anonymous
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I'd get a housecleaner every week instead of every month.
I wouldn't have to think twice about regular vacation travel (nothing elaborate, just could fly to see family instead of always driving) Would do more short getaways with my DH Would probably eat out more. Was this the point of this thread? |
Anonymous
She and her husband are still paying off student loans. It sounds like your kids are already out of college, so you're not saving for college now, are you? Or buying in today's real estate market? Anything you buy in the DMV on a 140k income is going to be exceedingly modest. |
Anonymous
You “lived” very comfortably on 140k… when you were growing up? My family was comfortably middle class on an HHI of 50k. In the 1980s. If you are talking about 15 or more years ago, then yes: 140k was definitely not middle class then. My public college education in the 90s cost about 10k. Total. I paid for most of it myself by working full time in the summer. The same school now costs 24k/yr for an in state student. My parents bought a 3 bedroom, 1 bathroom home for about 80k in 1982. They sold it for 350k in 1999. It’s now worth over 600k. Same house, same neighborhood, a few updates, same schools. And this is out in a large town in flyover country, far from a major city. Times have changed. Times |
Anonymous
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I graduated from high school in 1998 and that year my parents' income was 147k. I well remember this because I needed the information for the college applications and it was the first time I ever knew how much money they made. On that income they were able to pay for two children to go to expensive prep schools and paid for private colleges with no financial aid. My first year tuition plus room and board was around 28k and was close to 33k by the time I graduated four years later. They bought their house in 1993 for 320k and I remember them being hesitant at how expensive it was and it was a 3k sqft house in a nice neighborhood, but it wasn't huge or extravagant and there were definitely more expensive properties. We did have several nice vacations, including European trips in high school but most of our vacations were going to Maine or Cape Cod and we never went to the Caribbean or went skiing. I was conscious of a budget, and was frequently told this or that was too expensive and they refused to spend much on clothing and they drove their cars for a long time in order to pay the school fees. On the other hand, we ate well and I was never aware of money problems. My parents are now retired and comfortably so. I would describe this as upper middle class, with the full knowledge there were even more affluent rungs of the upper middle classes above us.
My parents could do this on an income of up to 147k in the 1990s. You cannot have this lifestyle today on the same income. The prep schools in the 1990s were 10k a year, today they're over 30k (flyover city). The same house is worth around 800k. The colleges are over 70k a year. You would need to be making 250-300k to have a comparable lifestyle today for the same flyover city. |