High motility but high fragmentation

[Anonymous]

I had a ER on Saturday, 8/11.

18 follicles
13 mature eggs
10 fertilized.
All divided. All made it to 4 cells on day 2.

But, the doctor called yesterday to discuss doing a transfer today because most of the embryos are showing very high fragmentation. Her words "such high fragmentation that it is not caused my the age of your eggs. This is a sperm issue. We see this fragging in men who have experience a trauma or illness like cancer." My DH has not experience any of that....in fact his sperm analysis for the ER this time was 90% motility. 90. We did a DNA Fragmentation test a year ago and everything was within the normal range except for maybe one thing that was off only slightly...."nothing to worry about"

So, the doctor wants to transfer the one embryo at is on schedule and has less than 10% fragmentation at 3 days (today).

Any experience someone like this? Husbands sperm looks great, moves great, good dna but being blamed for the fragmentation?

[Anonymous]

There r many causes, including the protocol not being a good fit. Probably lab conditions could be an issue too. I’d want to talk to another RE at a different clinic if this is what you’re getting from your current RE. In any event, higher fragmentation does mean lower chance of implantation, but not none. May as well go ahead with the transfer as she suggested. At least you’ll get it out of the lab sooner. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Is he on any meds at all, even seemingly unrelated ones? Have him take Fertilaid for men - it's basically vitamins that help with sperm production.

[Anonymous]

He is taking ConceptionXR by Theralogix. And a B12 vitamin. What else should he do?

[Anonymous]

Just transferred three eggs:

1 "perfect" 8 cell, no fragmentation
1 compacting morula with 10% frag
1 compacting morula with 30% frag

The compacting morula are ahead of schedule and because of that they aren't seen as good as the "perfect" 8 cell.

Thoughts? Long shot, right?

[Anonymous]

I don't think 10% is too bad. 30% is probably a long shot though. Overall, I'd say there's a reasonable chance. While there is a lower chance of implantation for highly fragmented embryos (and I don't know what constitutes highly on a % basis - I've seen studies that say greater than 15%), there is no correlation between euploidy and fragmentation for day 3 embryos (there is for blasts, though) - meaning, your fragmented morulas could be normal. Also, day 5 blasts (as opposed to day 6) are more likely to be genetically normal, so the fact that you have some over achievers may not be bad, even if they're not as pretty. You'll know soon (but I know it's not soon enough). Good luck!

[Anonymous]

I was wrong on the fragmentation.

1 perfect 8 cell
1 compacting morula with 40% frag
1 4 cell with 30% fragmentation

Of 13 freaking eggs, these were the top three. All the others that fertilized and divided on day two just stopped. What gives. The doctor is still blaming the sperm (although they look perfect, "dream sperm") Dr. thinks the sperm do not have a certain protein and that's whats causing the fragmentation. Similar research in men who bald faster than others....it's the same protein.

Any of this make sense to someone?

[Anonymous]

14:37 here. There are plenty of people who have trouble getting embryos to blast, but I know it sucks when you're expecting better results. There are also multiple reasons it happens, so blaming sperm with no basis is rather wacky. It could have been a lab screw up (rare - but you figure it has to happen). Maybe the protocol isn't a good fit (just b/c you get lots of eggs doesn't mean the protocol is right for you). For me, it was egg quality, as proven by a DE cycle, and we even have severe MF issues and no RE blamed the sperm. Unfortunately, you may not get a clear answer. I'd consider switching REs, if this cycle isn't successful. Or at least do some consults and get other opinions (easy to set up and can be by phone, but they want your records, so ask your nurse for copies). Good to be thinking ahead, but this cycle is still not over, so I hope it works out for you!

[Anonymous]

The doctor is saying the amount of fragmentation she is seeing is not due to old eggs alone. She says she sees this is couples where the man has had cancer, trauma, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The doctor is saying the amount of fragmentation she is seeing is not due to old eggs alone. She says she sees this is couples where the man has had cancer, trauma, etc.

Have you taken any supplements? My first ivf I had zero drag. Second ivf I had a lot of frag which is very uncommon for the results to be so different. Between cycles I had taken I-arginine for 90 days based on a ccrm protocol I read online for people with lowovarian reserve. I did not have low ovarian reserve but declaration is a mother. I will always regret what I did and always recommend that folks stay away from supplements other than ubiquinol. Despite it all I got my DS from that cycle. Two of the embryos had low drag and one had 40% frag. We transferred all 3. Who knows which one gave us our little guy but the 40% one was pretty far behind the others on our day 3 transfer.

[Anonymous]

I'm taking OvaVite and MitoQ